The Case for Jake (1 Viewer)

[TBpup]

Their starting 5 before KD

Curry
Klay
Barnes
Draymond
Bogut

Who were the ballhandlers (plural) again?

Exactly right.

Curry - otherwordly
Klay - not at all
Barnes - a little bit but nothing special
Draymond - can facilitate but not a great ball handler
Bogut - uh...what?

 

[Scalma]

Exactly right.

Curry - otherwordly
Klay - not at all
Barnes - a little bit but nothing special
Draymond - can facilitate but not a great ball handler
Bogut - uh...what?

Yeah. What made them so good was a willingness to make the extra pass. You don’t even necessarily have to be a great passer to play in their system. You just have to be willing to sacrifice a good shot for a better one. Look at the Blazers recent success. There’s a direct correlation with the assists going up. Has very little to do with having two ballhandlers.

 

[CupWizier]

Their starting 5 before KD

Curry
Klay
Barnes
Draymond
Bogut

Who were the ballhandlers (plural) again?

Curry, Klay, Barnes and Draymond are all better ball handlers than what we have in our starting lineup other than Lillard and CJ. They are also better passers other than those 2. By adding Durant, it has gotten even better.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Yeah. What made them so good was a willingness to make the extra pass. You don’t even necessarily have to be a great passer to play in their system. You just have to be willing to sacrifice a good shot for a better one. Look at the Blazers recent success. There’s a direct correlation with the assists going up. Has very little to do with having two ballhandlers.

I agree with what you and TBpup are saying for the most part, but I do think Green's ball handling was a huge part of their success. He might not be a great ball handler compared to a guard but he was/is good enough to break down the defense when being guarded by a slower PF or center. When they went small at that time and played him at the 5, teams were not prepared for it.

He helped them with spacing and also prevented opposing teams from trapping. When teams trap Dame, and they will in the playoffs, I think Jake can help but I would rather have him do it as our a 3rd or 4th ball handler, not as our 2nd best.

 

[tester551]

Yeah. What made them so good was a willingness to make the extra pass. You don’t even necessarily have to be a great passer to play in their system. You just have to be willing to sacrifice a good shot for a better one. Look at the Blazers recent success. There’s a direct correlation with the assists going up. Has very little to do with having two ballhandlers.

I wish I could like this post more than once. It deserves multiple gold stars.

 

[Scalma]

I agree with what you and TBpup are saying for the most part, but I do think Green's ball handling was a huge part of their success. He might not be a great ball handler compared to a guard but he was/is good enough to break down the defense when being guarded by a slower PF or center. When they went small at that time and played him at the 5, teams were not prepared for it.

He helped them with spacing and also prevented opposing teams from trapping. When teams trap Dame, and they will in the playoffs, I think Jake can help but I would rather have him do it as our a 3rd or 4th ball handler, not as our 2nd best.

Most of draymonds success came as a facilitator in the high post. It dragged the opposing big away from the basket and he had good enough vision/IQ/whatever you want to call it to kill other teams. Nurkic has the same skill set as far as facilitating goes. AD is a plus as well.

But this debate is pointless anyway because teams would probably never hedge on Dame with AD on the court.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Most of draymonds success came as a facilitator in the high post. It dragged the opposing big away from the basket and he had good enough vision/IQ/whatever you want to call it to kill other teams. Nurkic has the same skill set as far as facilitating goes. AD is a plus as well.

But this debate is pointless anyway because teams would probably never hedge on Dame with AD on the court.

At the time Green was also making 100 3's per season , so you had to at least cover him out there. Nurk of course does not. (and hopefully will never try)

 

[CupWizier]

Watched Prince again last night and was underwhelmed once again. He's a decent player, but I don't see where he would be an upgrade for where we are at. We need to do better at the sf position if we make a deal.

 

[TBpup]

At the time Green was also making 100 3's per season , so you had to at least cover him out there. Nurk of course does not. (and hopefully will never try)

What happened with the Nutcracker's shot? From a high of .388 just 4 seasons ago to a eye-gauging .262. Teams are treating him like Aminu now.

 

[swish3]

Most of draymonds success came as a facilitator in the high post. It dragged the opposing big away from the basket and he had good enough vision/IQ/whatever you want to call it to kill other teams. Nurkic has the same skill set as far as facilitating goes. AD is a plus as well.

But this debate is pointless anyway because teams would probably never hedge on Dame with AD on the court.

Facilitation from the high post works for the Blazers as well as the Warriors, and can be the key to playoff success when used as a 2 stage process with Nurk and Meyers as alternating Centers. The plan is for the starting team to use screens with PNRs to open Dame, CJ, and Jake for early scores with looks to the arc to further open the paint. When the bench team comes in, the high post will remain the assist facilitation point but with a different floor rotation pattern that favors pick and pop to open Meyers, Seth, and Jake for high % swish3 shooting, with the option for drives through the paint, dunks, and baselines. Switching the emphasis from Nurk close to the rim scoring to the swish3 shooters allows for offensive variety that can put opponents off balance and behind each time the platoon switch is made. Screening and assist passes by both Nurk and Meyers have been excellent and are steadily improving, and this provides a major strength.

With 5 or 6 Blazers scoring at least 14 points (Dame, CJ, Nurk, and 2 of the 3 Meyers-Seth-Jake, and perhaps Chief and Mo), with 2 floor rotations that allow featuring in the paint and arc scoring, the Blazers can overcome the swarming of Dame, and will give both Dame and CJ open shots. In the playoffs last season, Meyers played only 8 min total, scored 8 points (4 of 4 FG), and attempted 0 swish3s. This season will be more successful than last if the bench scoring power of our swish3 shooters is used to match or exceed that of the Warriors and other high scoring teams.

The Blazers are on the way to playoff success with the existing team and do not need Anthony Davis to do it.

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

The Blazers are on the way to playoff success with the existing team and do not need Anthony Davis to do it.

If you define success as winning at least one game you are probably right, as currently constructed I see no realistic hope of being a serious contender.

 

[TBpup]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/moe-harkless-still-valuable-trail-070540084.html

(Exceprt)
"In any case, Harkless and Layman aren't interchangeable in Stotts' eyes. Harkless brings a defensive presence that Layman can't match, although the gap between them could be narrowing. Five-man-lineup data from NBA.com actually shows that Portland's two most-used groups have one difference, and that's the small forward spot with Layman and Harkless as the variables. While Harkless still has the better individual defensive rating, the lineup with Layman has both a better defensive rating and net rating."

 

[swish3]

The Playoffs result this year can be much better, and I think the NBA Championship is achievable reviewing the result of the Jan 30 UTA Jazz game.

Note what I posted in the Meyers and Jake lead TS%... and more in Meyers Mandate thread.

The update after the UTA Jazz win shows that Meyers and Jake continue to lead the Blazers in TS% and eFG% as shown below. Meyers PER is now up to 16.9 and his Points/FGA to 1.485.
Meyers is not only leading the Blazers, but is ahead of Anthony Davis in Points/FGA, TS%, and eFG%. He could well be averaging 16+ PPG.

Stat.......TS%......eFG%......ORtg.....Pts/FGA
Meyers 68.2 65.4 129 1.485
Jake 61.2 60.1 119 1.286
Davis 59.5 53.2 124 1.422
(data from Baketball-Reference Feb 1, 2019)

Meyers showed in the Jazz game Jan 30 that he deserves to alternate with Nurk showing a strong performance against a league top 5 defense Jazz and holding Rudy Gobert to 15 points, setting excellent screens, giving assists to CJ, Dame, Jake, and Seth for open swish3s, strong defense, helpful coordinating chatter, and 80% swish3 (and 85% FG) shooting that brings his 3P% average up to 46.7%, just 2 below Seth. Now that has at least reached the 5 3PA point, to win we need for him to step it up to at least 6 or more attempts/game. Run plays for Meyers!

This Blazer team is capable of a deep playoff run, and possibly the NBA Championship without Anthony Davis if we recognize and optimally utilize our best talents.

 

[joeBlazers]

Rodney Hood is the savior.

 

[TBpup]

The Drive,
The Floater,
The Post Up,
The Clean Up,
The Corner '3'
The Top of the Key dagger '3'
The 'Shrug' '3'

......He is scoring in so many ways and didn't even get his traditional lob dunk tonight. 17 points in the last 17 minutes. #FlyingTurtle

 

[KingSpeed]

Guys. Exactly what can’t Jake do??

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Guys. Exactly what can’t Jake do??

Stay on the ground when someone pump fakes?
He's getting better on defense though.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

The Drive,
The Floater,
The Post Up,
The Clean Up,
The Corner '3'
The Top of the Key dagger '3'
The 'Shrug' '3'

......He is scoring in so many ways and didn't even get his traditional lob dunk tonight. 17 points in the last 17 minutes. #FlyingTurtle

The Rainbow.

 

[hoopsjock]

Just a thought I had during the game: Why are we not trying to get Jake in the post more?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Just a thought I had during the game: Why are we not trying to get Jake in the post more?

Isnt Jakes best strength the constant motion he is in off the ball? He creates so many good shots for himself and others. He could probably score in the post but, posting up usually means less movement too.

 

[hoopsjock]

Isnt Jakes best strength the constant motion he is in off the ball? He creates so many good shots for himself and others. He could probably score in the post but, posting up usually means less movement too.

I forget what game it was but he had a smaller defender on him and we posted him twice in a row and he scored both times. I hadn't seen it since until he got one tonight. His fadeaway high arching turnaround is pretty much impossible to defend in the post. I'd look to start exploiting that a couple times a game.

 

[SheedSoNasty]

Since this game was on ESPN, Jake got a bigger audience tonight. It’s going to be tough to hide his talent from others.

 

[Scalma]

Since this game was on ESPN, Jake got a bigger audience tonight. It’s going to be tough to hide his talent from others.

Oh he’s getting paid, which probably seals Aminus fate as well.

 

[hoopsjock]

Since this game was on ESPN, Jake got a bigger audience tonight. It’s going to be tough to hide his talent from others.

I keep thinking that the more people catch on to him the better. First off any players that warrant extra attention open up the floor for others. Second of all what Jake's doing is stuff that's hard to gameplan for. GS was definitely aware of the lobs and were taking that away. What that does is it gives him more space on his 3 pointers. Plus as we saw tonight if the defender stays between him and the basket he can still catch it and score on a little floater or mini hook. It's not quite as easy as a dunk but the versatile ways he's been scoring are hard to stop completely.

 

[TBpup]

@hoopsjock ...I noticed that as well. Jerebko was paying very specific attention for any backdoor cut and would not leave Jake to help at all.

It opened up things for other players but once he started hitting shots, it didn't matter who was guarding him.

 

[TBpup]

Leading up to January 4, Jake had 11 DNP's in his last 19 games. He had played a grand total of 82 minutes over a 37 day stretch. Before that string of DNP's (CD), he hadn't been playing poorly shooting .513 from the field but for some reason, Coach kept sending him back to the bench.

Since then in 19 games....

97-168 = .577 from the field
27-69 = .391 from 3-pt range
15.93 PPG

In his last 15 games, his +/- is a 109 for a 7.27+ average. That includes a -14 game or it would be even higher. Not to say he is necessarily that '3rd scorer' that we have been clamoring for, but that is quite a stretch of productive and efficient ball from a position that was dying on the vine for quite a while.

 

[James lamphear]

One thing I see of Layman he doesn't pass up shots it doesn't matter who he playing with. He can score at all 3 levels what you want your small forward to do.

 

[Scalma]

I keep thinking that the more people catch on to him the better. First off any players that warrant extra attention open up the floor for others. Second of all what Jake's doing is stuff that's hard to gameplan for. GS was definitely aware of the lobs and were taking that away. What that does is it gives him more space on his 3 pointers. Plus as we saw tonight if the defender stays between him and the basket he can still catch it and score on a little floater or mini hook. It's not quite as easy as a dunk but the versatile ways he's been scoring are hard to stop completely.

That’s what makes him pretty unique. Usually off ball “specialists” don’t also have the ability to play above the rim or in the post. Those guys are hard to guard regardless. Add two other dimensions, and it becomes a pick your poison scenario. If Layman can hover around 36% shooting from outside, he’s going to be a problem for a long time.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Leading up to January 4, Jake had 11 DNP's in his last 19 games. He had played a grand total of 82 minutes over a 37 day stretch. Before that string of DNP's (CD), he hadn't been playing poorly shooting .513 from the field but for some reason, Coach kept sending him back to the bench.

Since then in 19 games....

97-168 = .577 from the field
27-69 = .391 from 3-pt range
15.93 PPG

In his last 15 games, his +/- is a 109 for a 7.27+ average. That includes a -14 game or it would be even higher. Not to say he is necessarily that '3rd scorer' that we have been clamoring for, but that is quite a stretch of productive and efficient ball from a position that was dying on the vine for quite a while.

The Jake Layman fan club appreciates that information.

 

[TBpup]

^^^^^ Nice! Who on here is the "Jake Layman Fan Club" on Twitter?