Event The coming trade war

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Yes, I really really hate to see my young ones get on some of this shit they call rides. Especially the older stuff, as they just use it until it fails.

Some of these should be forcible retired.
And going back to what that Cal trans Engineer said that was so blatantly bad, the yield might be low but the ultimate strength is the same.
Well think over you pin while I make a few points.

Steel actually gets stronger with use over time, IF the yield in never exceeded. Yield is the stress point where the metal begins to deform. It can bend or flex to this point, stretch to this point and return to the original shape. If it stresses exceed the yield strength then it will permanently deform in shape. In either case, steel work hardens as it flex and be comes stronger, probable flexing less with the increased hardness but still returning to the original shape. Deforming it also gets harder but it does not return to the original shape of it's own metal memory. It is deformed back again by stresses and hardening some more. This process does not take long before it is too hard and cracks reducing the cross section of materials resisting the load until failure occurs catastrophically. Bang!

It is also well know that even while staying within yield or plastic load flexing, and the associated hardening, there is a cycle life to this process where too many cycles will harden the steel to the cracking point. So it is a matter of time and how rapid the cycles occur. Cycle once a day, probably Centuries of duty, but 5 a second and you better predict the failure time and replace well prior to that. Variations in between.

You have no doubt used this before, bending a hunk of wire back and forth until you break off a length.

Do it all the time. Drill off a panel that is spot welded and there are a few pieces of weld left.

I also have to be aware of heating anything while repairing it.

 

[Lanny]

Wow! I sure hope you gained something you needed badly posting this.

I sure as hell did!

 

[MARIS61]

Costa Rica views the tariffs favorably, and expect 4 local steel companies to rebound nicely.

 

[barfo]

Costa Rica views the tariffs favorably, and expect 4 local steel companies to rebound nicely.

That doesn't make much sense. How does the US imposing tariffs help a Costa Rican steel company?

barfo

 

[speeds]

Probably no similarities...

Softwood lumber prices in the U.S. soared to near-record highs Wednesday, as Canadian producers passed on higher export duties charged by the U.S. government straight on to American consumers.

https://www.google.ca/amp/business....s-pass-on-slapped-duties-to-u-s-consumers/amp

 

[MarAzul]

That's not exactly fair, Marzy. Aluminum used to do most of their smelting when we had lots of water and when other demands were low, such as weekends and at night. Now, we've got Global Warming and less snow pack resulting in less water.

Also, Eastern Oregon now consumes about 80% of the water withdrawn from our rivers which again means less water.

Water is what drives our electricity. No water means higher rates. It's Econ 101, which I took. Easiest class I ever took.

Oh, I think it is pretty accurate. Econ 101 comes in as to how the BPA run the Aluminum industry out. They raised there rate too fucking high to usable for smelting Aluminum.

Now it gets worse here, you are speaking to an old sailor, was up the river last year during spring run off. It still runs above flood stage like it always has.
I also worked with the Corps back in my days in Portland. The river flow tracking system was set up then. I pop over to the Corps to see how the River flows are actually doing.

"“The dams in the reservoir system are operating as designed,” said Steve Barton, Chief of the U.S Army Corps of Engineers Columbia Basin Water Management Division. “To meet flood risk management requirements for the spring runoff, about 3 million acre-feet of water must be released from the storage dams by April 30. This is enough water to cover the state of Massachusetts in about 6 inches of water.” How these releases impact river stages will largely depend upon weather and snowmelt."

Yep the river is still flowing like hell much of the time. The Aluminum smelter only ever worked when the flows were high. Those smelter only received power from
dam turbines, they never ran when other power sources were needed to support the load on the BPA grid. Geez! one smelter pot was like a short circuit.
The bus bar running down to anode in the pot were huge copper bars, not wire.

So, the river flows really heavy 5 to 6 months of the year, the first part of the year, to get ready for spring run off, then until about July something to handle the run off. We ain't doing Jack with the excess capacity during this time.

http://www.nwd.usace.army.mil/Media...r-and-manage-columbia-basin-river-and-reserv/

 

[MarAzul]

I buy nothing from China unless it's third party as part of something assembled elsewhere and we don't know it.

I agree. But the problem is, so much stuff is just not available from this country anymore, they have already been displaced for one reason or another.
And as you point out, like in my case about buying snap shackles for England or New Zealand, where are they getting the materials?
I think New Zealanders are smart enough to use their natural resources to continue producing quality stuff at competitive prices. But I do not know it.

 

[MarAzul]

Probably no similarities...

Softwood lumber prices in the U.S. soared to near-record highs Wednesday, as Canadian producers passed on higher export duties charged by the U.S. government straight on to American consumers.

https://www.google.ca/amp/business....s-pass-on-slapped-duties-to-u-s-consumers/amp

Well perhaps we may start process some of the logs we ship out of Oregon now. Damn near all of the shipping leaving Oregon is either logs or chips. You see this out of all the ports on the Oregon coast. Columbia, New Port, Coos Bay. Southern Washington too.
It sort of makes me sick to see this and just how dumb it is.

 

[MarAzul]

I sure as hell did!

I suppose a little prayer for you would be in order.

 

[MarAzul]

I also have to be aware of heating anything while repairing it.

uh, I imagine that gets tricky with unevenly work hardened steel. I sure am no expert, so I just give up quickly sometime and start over with new steel.
Lack the skill level to do otherwise.

 

[MarAzul]

That doesn't make much sense. How does the US imposing tariffs help a Costa Rican steel company?

barfo

I don't know about Costa Rica, but I can sure see raising the prices on inferior quality Chinese steel stuff, helping the buyers (persuade) here move to the high quality imports like from New Zealand or where ever.

 

[MarAzul]

That President of ours is the King of the stupid people.

I sure as hell did!

But on the other hand!

I like that you call our President, President of ours. Good, I agree.

Now I know you do not support the man, it is readily apparent. But isn't calling his supporters "Stupid people" close to violating forum rules?
Sly has judged me as in the top of the class of ridge runners doing this sort of work.

Are you beginning a push to horn in?

 

[barfo]

I don't know about Costa Rica, but I can sure see raising the prices on inferior quality Chinese steel stuff, helping the buyers (persuade) here move to the high quality imports like from New Zealand or where ever.

According to the White House, the tariffs would apply to Costa Rican and New Zealand imports also. So I don't see how it helps them.

barfo

 

[MarAzul]

According to the White House, the tariffs would apply to Costa Rican and New Zealand imports also. So I don't see how it helps them.

barfo

Depends on how the tariff application description is written and which alloys you cover.

 

[barfo]

Depends on how the tariff application description is written and which alloys you cover.

Yes, of course. I guess the administration is hard at work figuring out what they meant to do right now, and they'll let us know soon.

barfo

 

[MarAzul]

According to the White House, the tariffs would apply to Costa Rican and New Zealand imports also. So I don't see how it helps them.

barfo

One of the problems with the stuff coming from China is the lack of meeting specs in a consistent way. Like schedule 80 SS pipe, it must meet a pressure carrying psi capacity. So they ship us stuff marked 316L SS but it fails the psi test, so they just re designate it Schedule 40. Well shit it is way too heavy then and lacks the volume capacity in practical usage but it meet specification. Sold way below cost in pounds of steel, sold at a discount. I got one of these section without knowing until I went to actually cut it up and use it. Then I figured it out, what the hell? This is schedule 80 where I needed 40.

 

[MarAzul]

Yes, of course. I guess the administration is hard at work figuring out what they meant to do right now, and they'll let us know soon.

barfo

Danged if I know, just guessing about possibilities.

 

[MarAzul]

Yes, of course. I guess the administration is hard at work figuring out what they meant to do right now, and they'll let us know soon.

barfo

It may open up other possibilities too. Like some of these fitting are better when made Bronze and then there are possibilities for some plastics too. But cheap ass SS from China makes both non competitive cost wise in much of the market. A good tough plastic snap shakle banging into you in the wind is much better than a cheap ass SS at 3 times the weight but 1/3 the cost.
So the alternative becomes lost, not available.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

uh, I imagine that gets tricky with unevenly work hardened steel. I sure am no expert, so I just give up quickly sometime and start over with new steel.
Lack the skill level to do otherwise.

Gets difficult reshaping super thin 20 or 22 gauge steel, these cars ain't made like they used to.

Why I prefer cosmetic repairs.

 

[MarAzul]

Gets difficult reshaping super thin 20 or 22 gauge steel, these cars ain't made like they used to.

Why I prefer cosmetic repairs.

Actually when you get down to that thin of stuff, I don't see how it is the right stuff. Time to use some other materials with some inertia to it but lighter weight than steel. Much easier to work and repair. Thinking composited constructed parts here.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Actually when you get down to that thin of stuff, I don't see how it is the right stuff. Time to use some other materials with some inertia to it but lighter weight than steel. Much easier to work and repair. Thinking composited constructed parts here.

It is coming

 

[barfo]

Actually when you get down to that thin of stuff, I don't see how it is the right stuff. Time to use some other materials with some inertia to it but lighter weight than steel. Much easier to work and repair. Thinking composited constructed parts here.

Mr. MarAzul: I just want to say one word to you. Just one word.

Barfo: Yes, sir.

Mr. MarAzul: Are you listening?

Barfo: Yes, I am.

Mr. MarAzul: Plastics.

Barfo: Exactly how do you mean?

Mr. MarAzul: There's a great future in plastics. Think about it. Will you think about it?

barfo

 

[stampedehero]

I think these guys.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Looking for information not from media, on Chinese trade practices. http://www.idealtaxes.com/post3097.shtml

What I find odd, is that I know I have read a list of countries that have tariffs, value added taxes and flat out do not allow our products in. Try to find something on google, and all I get is anti Trump trash..6 pages back ...so much for providing unbiased information.

 

[Nikolokolus]

It's too bad we don't have any history to fall back on, to judge whether or not this might be a bad idea . . .

 

[DaLincolnJones]

It's too bad we don't have any history to fall back on, to judge whether or not this might be a bad idea . . .

You did read that I hope. Kind of hard to compare 20000 items to two.

 

[Nikolokolus]

You did read that I hope. Kind of hard to compare 20000 items to two.

Tariffs in general don't work. It's a stupid policy, especially when the countries you are imposing tariffs on can inflict pain on other parts of our economy that matter a lot more than steel and aluminum production.

EDIT: and for a country that is as consumer driven as ours is, that imports so much shit from China and other countries, that cost is going to get shunted on to us. This is going to dampen economic output.

 

[Lanny]

uh, I imagine that gets tricky with unevenly work hardened steel. I sure am no expert, so I just give up quickly sometime and start over with new steel.
Lack the skill level to do otherwise.

Boeing hardened their rivet holes by pounding them all around the hole repeatedly, a process known as cold worked. It was learned that they had cold worked too many rivet holes on the 747 for many years. They decided to continue doing it. That is another reason why I trust Boeing airplanes. Their wings will NOT come off even under the most stressful situations.

By the way, did you know that airlines have their own engineers who make changes to their airplanes under the supervision of the FAA? Yep, it's true. I was working in the area where they assemble the cargo doors when one came open during a flight. They found partial human remains in at least one of the engines. People were thrown to their death while wearing their seat belts. Chairs and all went out where they fell thousands of feet or were ingested into the engine. Our cargo doors were as strong as strong could be. I'm going to assume that some airline decided they could make a change to the Cargo doors. That or they didn't follow the guidelines to prevent rust or crazing.

 

[Lanny]

I don't know about Costa Rica, but I can sure see raising the prices on inferior quality Chinese steel stuff, helping the buyers (persuade) here move to the high quality imports like from New Zealand or where ever.

Chinese stuff, I agree, but what about Canadian steel or European steel?

 

[Lanny]

But on the other hand!

I like that you call our President, President of ours. Good, I agree.

Now I know you do not support the man, it is readily apparent. But isn't calling his supporters "Stupid people" close to violating forum rules?
Sly has judged me as in the top of the class of ridge runners doing this sort of work.

Are you beginning a push to horn in?

Horn in? Not my intention.

His supporters are not part of this forum and are fair game as public figures.