"The Debate"

[The_Lillard_King]

"Read my lips . . . no new taxes"


Every presidental canidate make promises they don't keep.

 

[dviss1]

I think he was lied to about the $2T figure.

BTW, is Gitmo still open?

[video=youtube;UQXZoM__vU0]

"some people are saying (Fox "News" tactic) Obama was lied to about the 2 Trillion figure"

That's basically what you said.

Conservatives had no plan to EVER close Gitmo. It's unfortunate that most of its inhabitants have been TORTURED.
This cannot be used in a court of law. So again he is hampered by Bush policies. But you disingenuously leave that out.

 

[dviss1]

"Read my lips . . . no new taxes"


Every presidental canidate make promises they don't keep.

This is basically what Willard is saying.

 

[barfo]

I'm interested in this one, for obvious reasons. The military has already signed up to half a billion in cuts, which don't include the OCO drawdowns. Where's the $2T number coming from, and what is it for?

The Pentagon’s budget is expected to run in the range of 3.2 to 3.5 percent of GDP in the next fiscal year. According to the Center for a New American Security, a group with ties to both Republican and Democratic administrations, even a gradual ramp up to 4 percent would increase defense spending by $2.1 trillion over the next ten years, as reported by CNN.

The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, a bipartisan group focused on deficit reduction, uses that number too, as do other budget think tanks. Romney seems to accept it, so as far as the $2 trillion figure goes, it seems reasonably accurate.

It's not FOR anything specific, it's apparently just the amount of money Romney thinks we ought to be spending on the military. You guys can figure out what to do with it (maybe a couple of hammers and a toilet seat?)

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

"some people are saying (Fox "News" tactic) Obama was lied to about the 2 Trillion figure"

That's basically what you said.

Conservatives had no plan to EVER close Gitmo. It's unfortunate that most of its inhabitants have been TORTURED.
This cannot be used in a court of law. So again he is hampered by Bush policies. But you disingenuously leave that out.

All lies. And that's the truth.

 

[PapaG]

"Read my lips . . . no new taxes"


Every presidental canidate make promises they don't keep.

That failed promise helped cost H.W. Bush the '92 election.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

That failed promise helped cost H.W. Bush the '92 election.

And Obama's failed promise may come back to be a factor in this election. I thnik he should be held accountable for teh statement and would like to hear what he says about it now.

I still think there is a difference between a failed promise and a lie.

 

[dviss1]

All lies. And that's the truth.

It's pretty easy to say what you think happened but again why didn't Romney refute it?

 

[DaLincolnJones]

And Obama's failed promise may come back to be a factor in this election. I thnik he should be held accountable for teh statement and would like to hear what he says about it now.

I still think there is a difference between a failed promise and a lie.

Interesting, so given that there is a difference, to follow the premise one is worse than the other?

With that, then is not a failure to follow through, something that is repeted over time and continued, worse?

 

[maxiep]

I will be interested to see how much more spirited President Obama is in the second debate. The town hall format, however, doesn't lead itself to being aggressive toward your opponent.

To me, it was clear President Obama thought he was sitting on a big lead and underestimated how thoroughly Romney had prepared. Also, John Kerry should be fired as Romney's stand-in. He didn't help prepare him very well.

 

[Denny Crane]

It's pretty easy to say what you think happened but again why didn't Romney refute it?

Refute what?

Being called a liar means Obama's trying to attack, but they're out of surprises (like the 47% video). The "liar" thing is petty, weak, and is likely to hurt more than help.

The VP debate will be interesting - it's Ryan, who's an economics guru against Biden who's been a specialist in foreign relations (in the senate) as well as a gaffe machine. The gift that keeps giving.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Interesting, so given that there is a difference, to follow the premise one is worse than the other?

With that, then is not a failure to follow through, something that is repeted over time and continued, worse?

Not for me. But that is because I have become jaded and think all politicians make promises and will repeat those promises to get elected. Sometimes they can't follow thru on their pormises and sometimes they probably don't even try. But taht is all part of politics.

Flat out lying about something is worse in my mind . . . but I am just one vote that will mean nothing in Oregon.

 

[MARIS61]

Refute what?

Being called a liar means Obama's trying to attack, but they're out of surprises (like the 47% video). The "liar" thing is petty, weak, and is likely to hurt more than help.

The VP debate will be interesting - it's Ryan, who's an economics guru against Biden who's been a specialist in foreign relations (in the senate) as well as a gaffe machine. The gift that keeps giving.

As long as Romney keeps talking, he'll keep lying. That's his nature, and you underestimate the American people if you think they want to vote for someone who lies to them.

As far as Ryan being a supposed economics "guru", you are very easily impressed. He's nothing of the sort.

 

[MARIS61]

The president now leads, 50% to 45%, among registered voters in the seven-day rolling average for Oct. 1-7, according to Gallup.

 

[Denny Crane]

As long as Romney keeps talking, he'll keep lying. That's his nature, and you underestimate the American people if you think they want to vote for someone who lies to them.

As far as Ryan being a supposed economics "guru", you are very easily impressed. He's nothing of the sort.

He's a businessman. You confuse him for a lawyer, or a realtor.

 

[barfo]

He's a businessman. You confuse him for a lawyer, or a realtor.

Interesting comment. Did you mean Romney, or Ryan? Romney was a businessman years ago, Ryan never was.

Either way, being a businessman doesn't mean you aren't a liar, nor does it mean you are an economics guru.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Interesting comment. Did you mean Romney, or Ryan? Romney was a businessman years ago, Ryan never was.

Either way, being a businessman doesn't mean you aren't a liar, nor does it mean you are an economics guru.

barfo

Writing a budget for the US govt. makes you an economics guru. That's what Ryan has done.

I suppose businessmen can be liars, but it's not the same as for lawyers and realtors (who lie whenever their lips are moving).

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Barfo beat me to it. Romney might have been a business man, but his tax records say he is either a bad business man today or mainly just an investor these days. It must be nice to make a living off having your money make more money . . . someday maybe I . . . OK may be not.

 

[barfo]

Writing a budget for the US govt. makes you an economics guru. That's what Ryan has done.

Ha ha ha. That's pretty absurd. Honestly, our own maxiep is far more qualified as an 'economics guru' than Paul Ryan.

Writing a budget (especially one that is just fantasy and has no chance of being enacted) is hardly the stuff of gurus. You could do it if you felt like it.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Ha ha ha. That's pretty absurd. Honestly, our own maxiep is far more qualified as an 'economics guru' than Paul Ryan.

Writing a budget (especially one that is just fantasy and has no chance of being enacted) is hardly the stuff of gurus. You could do it if you felt like it.

barfo

If I spent the time to budget for every department of the federal government, I'd be an economics guru, too. There aren't many in congress who will write a budget. Heck, there's nobody in the Senate who's written one in 3 years.

Maxiep doesn't strike me as the sort who creates budgets and financial documentation. He seems to be the sort who knows how to read them, though.

The current president and his staff have made the govt.'s books look like Solyndra's. Maybe Romney will make the govt.'s books look like Staples.

 

[MARIS61]

Writing a budget for the US govt. makes you an economics guru. That's what Ryan has done.

Ryan no more wrote a budget for the US Govt than Gore invented the internet.

I suppose businessmen can be liars, but it's not the same as for lawyers and realtors (who lie whenever their lips are moving).

Maybe some day you'll relate to us what Realtor crushed your ego so bad to leave you butthurt about all Realtors for eternity. Did she mock your manhood or something?

 

[Denny Crane]

Ryan no more wrote a budget for the US Govt than Gore invented the internet.



Maybe some day you'll relate to us what Realtor crushed your ego so bad to leave you butthurt about all Realtors for eternity. Did she mock your manhood or something?

Yes he did write a budget.

http://budget.house.gov/uploadedfiles/pathtoprosperity2013.pdf

The summary tables are at the end of the document.

The bill as passed by the House:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CRPT-112hrpt421/pdf/CRPT-112hrpt421.pdf

Looks to me like it has 50 pages of detailed spreadsheet type presentation and another 100+ pages of text describing the allocation for each department.

If you can casually say Romney keeps talking and isn't saying the truth, I can casually say that based upon the tiny fraction of the time you're right in these discussions, realtors are liars.

Good for the goose, good for the gander.

 

[barfo]

If you can casually say Romney keeps talking and isn't saying the truth, I can casually say that based upon the tiny fraction of the time you're right in these discussions, realtors are liars.

Sure. If he says one person, who he's had a chance to observe, is a liar, then it's fine for you to say thousands of people, most of whom you've never met, are liars. Makes sense.

barfo

 

[barfo]

Yes he did write a budget.

Let me introduce you to a group of people known as "staffers".

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Sure. If he says one person, who he's had a chance to observe, is a liar, then it's fine for you to say thousands of people, most of whom you've never met, are liars. Makes sense.

barfo

When Obama lies, it's not lies. Makes sense.

 

[Denny Crane]

Let me introduce you to a group of people known as "staffers".

barfo

Name the staffers who wrote his budget.

As near as I can tell, he is tight with several people who are savvy on dealing with government sized budgets.

You do know that Gov. Mitch Daniels of Indiana wrote a number of federal budgets, right?

 

[barfo]

Name the staffers who wrote his budget.

Well, you stumped me there. I don't know the names of Paul Ryan's staffers. That must mean he wrote the whole thing himself.

As near as I can tell, he is tight with several people who are savvy on dealing with government sized budgets.

Wow. I'm tight with some airline pilots, but that doesn't mean I can land a 747.

You do know that Gov. Mitch Daniels of Indiana wrote a number of federal budgets, right?

How fabulously exciting for him.

barfo

 

[PtldPlatypus]

As long as Romney keeps talking, he'll keep lying.

Romney-proudly-explains-how-hes-turned-campaign-around

Romney has pulled even with President Obama, and the former Massachusetts governor credits his rejuvenated campaign to one, singular tactic: lying a lot.

“I’m lying a lot more, and my lies are far more egregious than they’ve ever been. It’s a strategy that works because when I lie, I’m essentially telling people what they want to hear, and people really like hearing things they want to hear. Even if they sort of know that nothing I’m saying is true.”

“It’s a freeing strategy, really, because I don’t have to worry about facts or being accurate or having any concrete positions of any kind,” Romney added.

 

[Denny Crane]

Well, you stumped me there. I don't know the names of Paul Ryan's staffers. That must mean he wrote the whole thing himself.

I'll throw out a strawman you seem to be getting at. Ryan didn't write the budget at all? Had nothing to do with it? Had staffers do it while he smoked dope in the parking lot?

Do tell.

 

[Denny Crane]

Romney-proudly-explains-how-hes-turned-campaign-around

Read that on the onion earlier today.