The Early "Tank" Thread

[kjironman1]

Here we go again. It's time to at least discuss the elephant in the room. Let's start this off with the very first issue. Coaching. The Blazers obviously were handed a gut punch from the very beginning. Losing Chauncey is one thing but the way it all happened was just very out of the ordinary and unexpected. I want to give the players a bunch of credit for going out and being professional while playing the games they were expected to play.

Next issue is injuries. Losing Scoot before the season even started and now it looks like that loss will be even more extended that previously expected or at least reported seems like a huge mark on the season.
As was pointed out in here many time Jrue is a great player but he is not going to last this season playing the minutes he is being asked to play. It's only a matter of time with things like a calf injury that he will need more time off.

Third and in my opinion most important is new ownership. This deal isn't even really done yet. The team should not make wholesale changes like a new coach or GM until the ownership issue is complete. That might be another few months which would put them basically at the trade deadline.

I understand most in here want to root for the team to win and honestly so do I but lets be honest here. Exactly where is this team headed this year? Do they start now and go full fledge playing guys like Yang Hansen and getting players reps while shopping Grant and Holiday or do they continue to push for another 20 wins this season that just kill their chances at a great talent they could add in the draft?

I did put a Poll on here. I made the choices public and I also allowed people to change their votes because this is not really concrete at this point. I also allowed people to see the voting without voting because maybe they just want to see where people stand first.

 

[Phatguysrule]

It really doesn't matter. They're absolutely not good enough to win a playoff series. They don't have enough talent to win through injuries.

They absolutely need more top five talent on this team.

I think we have a mismash of players that will prevent us from getting a high draft pick.

 

[kjironman1]

It really doesn't matter. They're absolutely not good enough to win a playoff series. They don't have enough talent to win through injuries.

They absolutely need more top five talent on this team.

I think we have a mismash of players that will prevent us from getting a high draft pick.

That last line there seems to be the point. It was the same last year. Too much Grant, Simons and then Sharpe, Scoot and Ayton.
This year it’s Grant Holiday and Deni with Sharpe and at times Clingan.

There will be 30 plus wins again unless they make some changes quick.

Do we really want that?

 

[Phatguysrule]

That last line there seems to be the point. It was the same last year. Too much Grant, Simons and then Sharpe, Scoot and Ayton.
This year it’s Grant Holiday and Deni with Sharpe and at times Clingan.

There will be 30 plus wins again unless they make some changes quick.

Do we really want that?

It doesn't matter. That's where we are until we rebuild (maybe as many as 40-ish wins) unless we get incredibly lucky.

We're not going to be competitive in the playoffs with this roster.

 

[Blazinaway]

Here we go again. It's time to at least discuss the elephant in the room. Let's start this off with the very first issue. Coaching. The Blazers obviously were handed a gut punch from the very beginning. Losing Chauncey is one thing but the way it all happened was just very out of the ordinary and unexpected. I want to give the players a bunch of credit for going out and being professional while playing the games they were expected to play.

Next issue is injuries. Losing Scoot before the season even started and now it looks like that loss will be even more extended that previously expected or at least reported seems like a huge mark on the season.
As was pointed out in here many time Jrue is a great player but he is not going to last this season playing the minutes he is being asked to play. It's only a matter of time with things like a calf injury that he will need more time off.

Third and in my opinion most important is new ownership. This deal isn't even really done yet. The team should not make wholesale changes like a new coach or GM until the ownership issue is complete. That might be another few months which would put them basically at the trade deadline.

I understand most in here want to root for the team to win and honestly so do I but lets be honest here. Exactly where is this team headed this year? Do they start now and go full fledge playing guys like Yang Hansen and getting players reps while shopping Grant and Holiday or do they continue to push for another 20 wins this season that just kill their chances at a great talent they could add in the draft?

I did put a Poll on here. I made the choices public and I also allowed people to change their votes because this is not really concrete at this point. I also allowed people to see the voting without voting because maybe they just want to see where people stand first.

The problem with any "serious" tank is there are so many bad teams already a good bit worse than us with awful records, it would be very difficult to do better than a 9 or 10 pick IMO. Therefore may as well try to win games but perhaps trade Jrue/Grant and look to stay in the Lotto at 10-15 area

 

[blazerkor]

I don't think we are tanking but I do think there will be a crossroads at the deadline where we either trade young talent and future picks for a proven star or we send out our vets for more young talent and maybe some incoming draft considerations.

I neither scenario do I see us going into a full blown tank. A consolidating trade would give us a different identity with a new star coming in. A deconsolidation trade would increase our depth and push the current model forward with a better chance of winning.

 

[blazerkor]

The problem with any "serious" tank is there are so many bad teams already a good bit worse than us with awful records, it would be very difficult to do better than a 9 or 10 pick IMO. Therefore may as well try to win games but perhaps trade Jrue/Grant and look to stay in the Lotto at 10-15 area

Just so we're clear 15 is out of the lotto and therefore the pick will go to Chicago but if we trade Jrue, Jerami or both for more young talent, then making the playoffs even if it is just to be out in the first round would be a great result for the season.

 

[wizenheimer]

Just so we're clear 15 is out of the lotto and therefore the pick will go to Chicago but if we trade Jrue, Jerami or both for more young talent, then making the playoffs even if it is just to be out in the first round would be a great result for the season.

I can't imagine that scenario happening

what we've seen is that, finally, NBA front offices are ratcheting down their tolerance for bloated contracts while scurrying to avoid the aprons. After this season, Jrue Holiday has 2 years left at 36M/year; Grant 2 years at 35M year. It's possible some contender or playoff team might take a look at Jrue, but I doubt that's true for Grant. No lottery team will send young talent for either player

and those contenders would want a near-even salary exchange; probably want to send out more salary than they take back....just like Portland who is only 1.5M below the tax line

I think both player will be Blazers until at least the 2027 trade deadline

 

[blazerkor]

I can't imagine that scenario happening

what we've seen is that, finally, NBA front offices are ratcheting down their tolerance for bloated contracts while scurrying to avoid the aprons. After this season, Jrue Holiday has 2 years left at 36M/year; Grant 2 years at 35M year. It's possible some contender or playoff team might take a look at Jrue, but I doubt that's true for Grant. No lottery team will send young talent for either player

and those contenders would want a near-even salary exchange; probably want to send out more salary than they take back....just like Portland who is only 1.5M below the tax line

I think both player will be Blazers until at least the 2027 trade deadline

I wasn't thinking of a lottery team.

I was thinking that I could see Detroit being interested in Jrue but I don't know what the returning package would be maybe Beef Stew and Holland or something like that.

I still think a team like the Lakers would tie themselves to Jerami (playing at the level he's started the season at) for Vanderbilt, Kleber, Vincent and maybe we send them a couple of second rounders and they send us a future FRP. That would get them better at the wing and free up a little money and roster spots to be involved in the buyout market. We would waive Vincent and Kleber.

 

[Strenuus]

It doesnt matter if we win or lose. We just arent even good enough to be relevant. Not even worth watching.

5 Years of that sentence being the truth. Its sad.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I changed my vote to Yes. It's probably the most sensible thing to do but to not give full support to a player like Deni just seems really wrong.

 

[GoZers]

I voted yes, but like usual, it is beyond frustrating that they dont just pick a lane and do whatever they want to do. Win? Fine, go for it, trade some young guys and get a better starting five etc. Lose? Then fricking lose. Playing veterans and young guys and winning 40% of your games is stupid. I have asked for the last two years - what are they trying to do? Win or lose? I honestly cant tell.

 

[kjironman1]

I voted yes, but like usual, it is beyond frustrating that they dont just pick a lane and do whatever they want to do. Win? Fine, go for it, trade some young guys and get a better starting five etc. Lose? Then fricking lose. Playing veterans and young guys and winning 40% of your games is stupid. I have asked for the last two years - what are they trying to do? Win or lose? I honestly cant tell.

I totally get you on this. Frustrating for sure.

 

[wizenheimer]

I wasn't thinking of a lottery team.

I was thinking that I could see Detroit being interested in Jrue but I don't know what the returning package would be maybe Beef Stew and Holland or something like that.

I still think a team like the Lakers would tie themselves to Jerami (playing at the level he's started the season at) for Vanderbilt, Kleber, Vincent and maybe we send them a couple of second rounders and they send us a future FRP. That would get them better at the wing and free up a little money and roster spots to be involved in the buyout market. We would waive Vincent and Kleber.

that Laker trade won't work. Blazers are at the roster limit so they'd have to waive 2 players first. Can't waive Vinncent and Kleber until they are Blazers. AND, that trade would put Portland over the tax line. Wouldn't happen. And if the Blazers added a player to the trade, then it would be illegal from LAL's perspective because they are over the apron

not sure why Detrit would want Jrue. They are 13-2 and Robinson has been really solid as a SG for them. Why fix what ain't broken?...and a 36M/year backup makes little sense

 

[Everything Beagle]

It really doesn't matter. They're absolutely not good enough to win a playoff series. They don't have enough talent to win through injuries.

They absolutely need more top five talent on this team.

I think we have a mismash of players that will prevent us from getting a high draft pick.

“Play through injuries” all of our point guards are injured. This isn’t like losing your backup wing and collapsing. Give us a little credit for our suffering.

 

[Phatguysrule]

“Play through injuries” all of our point guards are injured. This isn’t like losing your backup wing and collapsing. Give us a little credit for our suffering.

That's what happens when you're relying on two 40 year old point guards with high mileage.

It's not like this was an unforseen problem...

 

[blazerkor]

that Laker trade won't work. Blazers are at the roster limit so they'd have to waive 2 players first. Can't waive Vinncent and Kleber until they are Blazers. AND, that trade would put Portland over the tax line. Wouldn't happen. And if the Blazers added a player to the trade, then it would be illegal from LAL's perspective because they are over the apron

not sure why Detrit would want Jrue. They are 13-2 and Robinson has been really solid as a SG for them. Why fix what ain't broken?...and a 36M/year backup makes little sense

My understanding was you can waive a player or players as part of the trade, you don't have to ever take them on to your roster, you just can't negotiate a buyout in that case, so you have to eat the entirety of their contract. Maybe I have that mistaken. If you're sure that's not right please find the place in the CBA or the FAQ and quote it for me.

Thanks

I do think we only do the Jerami trade if we have another trade lined up to keep us out of the luxury tax.

As far as the Pistons are concerned it would be a consolidation trade just making it more likely that they'll win it all this year. Maybe they won't look to do that but I could definitely see them wanting to bring in a guy who was the difference between not winning it all and winning it all two times in his career.

Obviously it's all just speculation so I have no idea if any team would want either guy and what we could or couldn't get if they did. I just thought since both players are putting up numbers closer to what they did the season before last, that they might have regained some value due to getting back to where teams have seen them perform in the past.

 

[wizenheimer]

That's what happens when you're relying on two 40 year old point guards with high mileage.

It's not like this was an unforseen problem...

Medicare Part B helps

 

[riverman]

Tanking should only ever happen organically and never be a strategy. You should lose games trying to win them to be a lottery team and being a lottery team should never be your goal.

 

[Everything Beagle]

That's what happens when you're relying on two 40 year old point guards with high mileage.

It's not like this was an unforseen problem...

We wouldn’t be if Scoot and Wesley weren’t injured! Cmon man don’t be so obtuse!

 

[Phatguysrule]

Tanking should only ever happen organically and never be a strategy. You should lose games trying to win them to be a lottery team and being a lottery team should never be your goal.

And we're beyond that point until we rebuild.

*Edit* Again, unless we get incredibly lucky with those draft picks we traded for...

 

[Phatguysrule]

We wouldn’t be if Scoot and Wesley weren’t injured! Cmon man don’t be so obtuse!

Scoot has missed 1/3 of his NBA games. Is he more reliable than Jrue or Dame? Wesley doesn't make us competitive...

We need more. I hope we get it. We need another Avdia trade. Maybe 2 of them.

 

[Everything Beagle]

Scoot has missed 1/3 of his NBA games. Is he more reliable than Jrue or Dame? Wesley doesn't make us competitive...

We need more. I hope we get it. We need another Avdia trade. Maybe 2 of them.

What’s our record with Wesley versus without it?

 

[blazerkor]

What’s our record with Wesley versus without it?

It's an extremely limited sample size with Blake playing but we were 4-2. I would even say this season is still a limited sample size but without him that leaves us at 2-7.

 

[wizenheimer]

It's an extremely limited sample size with Blake playing but we were 4-2. I would even say this season is still a limited sample size but without him that leaves us at 2-7.

yeah, very small sample size but I do think you can make a case for his impact because, for opposing offenses' he was pure chaos on defense and he seriously pushed the Blazers in transition

 

[PCmor7]

 

[Phatguysrule]

What’s our record with Wesley versus without it?

In playoff basketball? I don't give a ton of weight to NBA games so early in the season.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Way too early for this. Im sorry but unless we are a top four team we should tank, it sounds like.
We will never be a top four team if we tank so we might as well just start every season tanking…

We will get better than the last 6 games…..Like we were in the first six. Guys will get healthy and back on the court and we will continue our growth and improvement. Tanking will kill that.

No thanks.

 

[Everything Beagle]

In playoff basketball? I don't give a ton of weight to NBA games so early in the season.

In playoff basketball, we’re just as good with (0-0) as without (0-0) so obviously he hasn’t hurt us there lol

 

[Everything Beagle]

Maybe you do start tanking but honestly the team that’s available to play every night doesn’t need to “tank” to lose a bunch of games. Play to win every night, just so you are honest with yourself as a team.