Politics The Joe Biden Thread

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barfo said:
That definitely is not true. Middle Eastern oil is cheaper than US oil to produce.
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You're right, my bad. But the US is very competitive with, or cheaper than everyone else.

Why is $80 the market price? Or are you going to institute price controls?
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$80 is just the number I've read and heard as accepted the most, and it's a healthy profit margin.
 
Chris Craig said:
Biden is waiting as long as he can before taps our own oil. I think part of the reasoning is conservation of our reserves.

We can be independent, but for how long? The quicker we start using our reserves, the quicker they are used up, then we are once again relying on the middle east, if by then, they still have oil.
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We can be independent for far longer than we need oil and then we have friends to our north who have a lot. And we have reserves we've never come close to tapping.

We need to use this as a kick in the ass for renewables and nuclear.
 
Phatguysrule said:
You're right, my bad. But the US is very competitive with, or cheaper than everyone else.
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But, middle east has half the world's oil. So they can undersell us and everyone else if they want, for as long as they want.

barfo
 
I bought a tube of toothpaste and it cost more than a gallon of gasoline.....people forget that the numbers at the pump are reflecting the value of the dollar more than the price of oil...skin lotion I used to buy for 1.99 cost 8.79 .....it's not about gas. It's about inflation. All that said I'm really appreciating my hybrid car these days
 
riverman said:
I bought a tube of toothpaste and it cost more than a gallon of gasoline.....people forget that the numbers at the pump are reflecting the value of the dollar more than the price of oil...skin lotion I used to buy for 1.99 cost 8.79 .....it's not about gas. It's about inflation. All that said I'm really appreciating my hybrid car these days
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It's not just the US either. Inflation is rampant throughout the world.

We are on the edge of a sovereign debt crisis that will be VERY painful for the world
 
America has been spoiled with cheap oil for my entire life compared to other countries...in Taiwan back in the 80s and 90s a liter of gas cost 3 bucks US....that's why motorcycles rule over there..a liter isn't much gas if you have a V6 or V8 vehicle..I don't know what it cost over there now but most countries paid double what we're used to paying decades ago...it's also why they use public transportation more than we do. Our urban infrastructure is so geared to the automobile that cars get priority real estate in the forms of parking garages and parking lots, spaces, etc...no doubt..people here will drive without purpose just to drive or drive two blocks to get a 6 pack...I used to go for a walk from the school on my lunch and everyone I worked with drove over lunch time. It's a real addiction here for the cars to be a huge part of life.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Great! Let them do it.
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The trouble with that is geopolitical - once they've killed off our oil industry, they can shut the spigots back off. It's the reason we want to be energy independent - but no one is going to get excited about subsidizing our oil industry (even more) so that they can withstand a Saudi price war.

barfo
 
barfo said:
The trouble with that is geopolitical - once they've killed off our oil industry, they can shut the spigots back off. It's the reason we want to be energy independent - but no one is going to get excited about subsidizing our oil industry (even more) so that they can withstand a Saudi price war.

barfo
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But we could be almost completely off of oil long before we run out. And that really should be the goal here. Use this instability to get off of oil.

Not doing so is almost criminal.

And we could get Venezuelan oil in an emergency... So it's not like there is a ton of risk there.
 
riverman said:
I bought a tube of toothpaste and it cost more than a gallon of gasoline.....people forget that the numbers at the pump are reflecting the value of the dollar more than the price of oil...skin lotion I used to buy for 1.99 cost 8.79 .....it's not about gas. It's about inflation. All that said I'm really appreciating my hybrid car these days
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My son has an excavation company with a good size fleet of Equipment and Dump Trucks. He's very concerned about the cost of diesel and hasn't yet been able to pass on all the inflated cost to his customers, but he's working on it, and it isn't pretty for anyone when cost are factored in. He'a staunch dem and drives a hybrid family car but also has diesel pick up for pulling his toy wagon and fishing boat.
All commerce is effected by fuel/transportation cost so when a dozen eggs cost $12 or a loaf a bread $10 much of that is cost being past on to consumers. There are those that take advantage of increasing margins now as a way to make up for lost profit from covid.
 
Hoopguru said:
My son has an excavation company with a good size fleet of Equipment and Dump Trucks. He's very concerned about the cost of diesel and hasn't yet been able to pass on all the inflated cost to his customers, but he's working on it, and it isn't pretty for anyone when cost are cost down. He'a staunch dem and drives a hybrid family car but also has diesel pick up for pulling his toy wagon and fishing boat.
All commerce is effected by fuel/transportation cost so when a dozen eggs cost $12 or a loaf a bread $10 much of that is cost being past on to consumers. There are those that take advantage of increasing margins now as a way to make up for lost profit from covid.
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price gouging sucks....I have an SUV for fishing but I don't drive it unless it's bringing something I need home ...feed or groceries, etc. fish...I have a good friend who's a trucker and he's just parked it until he can drive and make a profit ..hard for truckers to make a profit these days but my nephew washes dishes in Redmond and started at 22 dollars an hour....the numbers have changed.
 
riverman said:
price gouging sucks....I have an SUV for fishing but I don't drive it unless it's bringing something I need home ...feed or groceries, etc. fish...I have a good friend who's a trucker and he's just parked it until he can drive and make a profit ..hard for truckers to make a profit these days but my nephew washes dishes in Redmond and started at 22 dollars an hour....the numbers have changed.
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Truck drivers get absolutely screwed nowadays. It's bad.
 
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When I grew up in the sixties most young people were anti establishment/war and I must admit it does seem flip flopped now some.
 
riverman said:
price gouging sucks....I have an SUV for fishing but I don't drive it unless it's bringing something I need home ...feed or groceries, etc. fish...I have a good friend who's a trucker and he's just parked it until he can drive and make a profit ..hard for truckers to make a profit these days but my nephew washes dishes in Redmond and started at 22 dollars an hour....the numbers have changed.
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So, if you don't catch any fish you just don't come home?
 
Lanny said:
So, if you don't catch any fish you just don't come home?
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No I just chuck it up to the cost of catching the next fish....or casting practice...can never get enough casting practice in! That's why they call it fishing and not harvesting!
 
Phatguysrule said:
Required ethanol blending with gasoline and resulting production of corn-based ethanol in the United States has failed to meet the policy's own greenhouse gas emissions targets and negatively affects water quality, among other downsides.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2101084119
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So i read the report in full.
"Despite the strong environmental tradeoffs under the RFS thus far, biofuels and bioenergy may play a key role in stabilizing atmospheric CO2 concentrations and holding global warming below 1.5 or 2 °C, particularly with continued advancements like carbon capture and storage (2, 4, 74–76) and increased productivity from perennial feedstocks grown on marginal lands (77–80). However, our findings confirm that contemporary corn ethanol production is unlikely to contribute to climate change mitigation. Given the current US dependence on this fuel, there remains an urgent need to continue the research, development, and shift toward more-advanced renewable fuels, improved transportation efficiency, and electrification (74, 81–83).

I get from this that it is important and will play a "Key Role" but it cannot be the only thing we do. We need to be better.

"The United States is currently at a bioenergy crossroads. The RFS specifies biofuel volumes through 2022; absent legislative action, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) will determine volumes for subsequent years. If conventional biofuel volumes were to increase, it is likely that further increases in crop prices, LUC, and environmental impacts would ensue."

I get from this statement that we are pretty much at the point where the EPA cannot ask for more and production is pretty much going to have to stay where it's at unless new enforcement is mandated.

The report then goes on to express the overall changes to their testing and assessment modeling.

"Overall, our retrospective and purpose-built integrated assessment modeling framework has several advantages over previous projections and more generalized approaches."

Yes overall the projections were higher but the results still were better than not having it. Yes the ethanol from corn effects negatively water and soil but we knew that and they will continue to improve in these areas.

In the end we have Tyler Lark who is fairly well renowned for his studies at University of Wisconsin saying it's not as good as we hoped but it's still good and getting better.
Other notable contributors-
Nathan P. Hendricks https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7301-8314
Aaron Smith https://orcid.org/0000-0001-5768-6304
Nicholas Pates https://orcid.org/0000-0002-8071-0509
Seth A. Spawn-Lee https://orcid.org/0000-0001-8821-5345
Matthew Bougie
Eric G. Booth https://orcid.org/0000-0003-2191-6627
Christopher J. Kucharik https://orcid.org/0000-0002-0400-758X

Good Report find.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
So i read the report in full.
"Despite the strong environmental tradeoffs under the RFS thus far, biofuels and bioenergy may play a key role in stabilizing atmospheric CO2 concentrations and holding global warming below 1.5 or 2 °C, particularly with continued advancements like carbon capture and storage (2, 4, 74–76) and increased productivity from perennial feedstocks grown on marginal lands (77–80). However, our findings confirm that contemporary corn ethanol production is unlikely to contribute to climate change mitigation. Given the current US dependence on this fuel, there remains an urgent need to continue the research, development, and shift toward more-advanced renewable fuels, improved transportation efficiency, and electrification (74, 81–83).

I get from this that it is important and will play a "Key Role" but it cannot be the only thing we do. We need to be better.

"The United States is currently at a bioenergy crossroads. The RFS specifies biofuel volumes through 2022; absent legislative action, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) will determine volumes for subsequent years. If conventional biofuel volumes were to increase, it is likely that further increases in crop prices, LUC, and environmental impacts would ensue."

I get from this statement that we are pretty much at the point where the EPA cannot ask for more and production is pretty much going to have to stay where it's at unless new enforcement is mandated.

The report then goes on to express the overall changes to their testing and assessment modeling.

"Overall, our retrospective and purpose-built integrated assessment modeling framework has several advantages over previous projections and more generalized approaches."

Yes overall the projections were higher but the results still were better than not having it. Yes the ethanol from corn effects negatively water and soil but we knew that and they will continue to improve in these areas.

In the end we have Tyler Lark who is fairly well renowned for his studies at University of Wisconsin saying it's not as good as we hoped but it's still good and getting better.
Other notable contributors-
Nathan P. Hendricks https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7301-8314
Aaron Smith https://orcid.org/0000-0001-5768-6304
Nicholas Pates https://orcid.org/0000-0002-8071-0509
Seth A. Spawn-Lee https://orcid.org/0000-0001-8821-5345
Matthew Bougie
Eric G. Booth https://orcid.org/0000-0003-2191-6627
Christopher J. Kucharik https://orcid.org/0000-0002-0400-758X

Good Report find.
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If we just put solar panels in the same land area we grow ethonol corn we'd generate about 200x more energy. That would be roughly 433% of US energy needs.

Corn ethenol the way we do it here in the US also raises the price of feed corn, which costs people over $1 billion per year.

https://blogs.umass.edu/natsci397a-eross/shifting-subsidies-from-corn-ethanol-to-solar/

I'm not opposed to biofuels, but the way we do corn ethenol in the US isn't helpful. It gets in the way of much more effective solutions.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
If we just put solar panels in the same land area we grow ethonol corn we'd generate about 200x more energy. That would be roughly 433% of US energy needs.

Corn ethenol the way we do it here in the US also raises the price of feed corn, which costs people over $1 billion per year.

https://blogs.umass.edu/natsci397a-eross/shifting-subsidies-from-corn-ethanol-to-solar/

I'm not opposed to biofiels, but the way we do corn ethenol in the US isn't helpful. It gets in the way of much more effective solutions.
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Yeah the report you posted covered the cost of corn and the effect on prices. Again they said yes it impacts it but the good outweighed the bad.

Totally agree though on Solar. I also agree wholeheartedly ethanol is only a stopgap and will not be the answer in the long run. Your link to that report says it almost verbatim. Ethanol is only just one of many things we need to do.

Currently four major Solar projects going on in Oregon and many more are planned. Joe is lifting the tariffs on importing solar energy componenets.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/06/business/economy/biden-solar-tariffs.html
 
We need more walkable communities, better mass transit, and making electric cars truly an alternative.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
We should put all cats on power-generating treadmills.
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LOL my brother and his partner just purchased a cat wheel. Trying to train their young and rambunctious kitty to actually use it has been a pretty funny thing to watch over the past couple weeks.
 
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