The Meyers Leonard Thread

[Boob-No-More]

I have to admit, if he's always going to be clueless on defense, at least he's improving towards his streangths... 7'1" SF?

I know you're being facetious, but how many small forwards pull down 13 rebounds?

Yeah, I know it's summer league and it's just one game, but it's a step in the right direction. I'm also encouraged that it was against one of the best front lines in Las Vegas. The Morris twins are both third year players that were lottery picks and started 55 games between them last season.

I hope Meyers can build on it and have another solid game against Minnesota tonight. It would be nice to see him end summer league on a high note and go into training camp with a renewed sense of confidence. Whatever the coaches told him before the game last night worked. Maybe he just needs a little more encouragement, guidance and positive reinforcement. He's still a kid and still learning. He seems to be everyone's favorite whipping boy these days. Rather than give him so much shit in this forum when he has a bad game, wouldn't it be nice if the fans of the team he plays for would give him a little credit and encouragement when he has a good game?

BNM

 

[PapaG]

Leonar_ has a decent shot from three for a center. It's his defense that sucks ass

He played solid post defense against PHX. Granted, it was against Markief Morris, but he held his ground on the block.

 

[PapaG]

I know you're being facetious, but how many small forwards pull down 13 rebounds?

Yeah, I know it's summer league and it's just one game, but it's a step in the right direction. I'm also encouraged that it was against one of the best front lines in Las Vegas. The Morris twins are both third year players that were lottery picks and started 55 games between them last season.

I hope Meyers can build on it and have another solid game against Minnesota tonight. It would be nice to see him end summer league on a high note and go into training camp with a renewed sense of confidence. Whatever the coaches told him before the game last night worked. Maybe he just needs a little more encouragement, guidance and positive reinforcement. He's still a kid and still learning. He seems to be everyone's favorite whipping boy these days. Rather than give him so much shit in this forum when he has a bad game, wouldn't it be nice if the fans of the team he plays for would give him a little credit and encouragement when he has a good game?

BNM

Which is odd to me, because he wasn't drafted to produce right away. This board needs a scapegoat though.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Which is odd to me, because he wasn't drafted to produce right away.

Which is exactly what some of us object to!

 

[PapaG]

Which is exactly what some of us object to!

Well why keep complaining about it? What's done is done. Bitching about it nonstop isn't going to accelerate Meyer's progress on the court.

 

[Drttimmy]

Rather have Withey

After watching Withey in SL, I think I'd prefer they'd have packaged Meyers instead of him. I haven't compared their combine numbers, and he certainly doesn't look it, but I think Withey may be the better athlete. From the eyeball test, he moves better laterally and just moves a little quicker. Maybe that's his superior instincts making him look physically quicker, but no matter the means, he reacts quicker. I think they run the floor about the same.

Meyers probably has better offensive upside, but the team badly needs a low post defender and general tough guy. Withey is looking much more capable of that from my perspective.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

While I also wish we'd kept Withey over Meyers, Withey struck me as very skinny and puny.

 

[Rhal]

Seriously this board is ridiculous sometimes. If Withey was anywhere NEAR the same prospect as ML then he wouldn't have been there halfway through the second round. ML went 11 in a BETTER draft because of how psychically gifted he is. Withey is nowhere near as athletic as ML and he was a four year player I hope to hell he would look more polished then ML or there is no way in hell he stays in the NBA. With how rail thin Withey looks he may not make it in the NBA as it is. I wish we had kept Withey as well but not over ML.
I know people need a scapegoat but ML was drafted a 2 to 3 year project at least, not a guy to step in and produce immediately.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Who agrees with this assessment of Leonard:

I've been watching the Summer League games and Meyers has shown some improvement. In most of the first games he was rebounding SO poorly that it really overshadowed the good things he was doing and hence everyone was pretty down on him. His rebounding was the worst I've ever seen though. He wasn't blocking out and letting other people get the board (only on the free throw line did he do a GREAT job at this) he was literally just standing there or worse....it was that bad.

Nevertheless, this what I've seen from him.

1. Rebounding - Terrible still, though this last game he and coach talked about it beforehand and he then proceeded to grab 13 and work real hard. I think he has just been focusing and working in the other areas so much that we probably won't see much improvement here. This is fine. One thing at a time.
2. One-on-One Defense in the Post - I've seen MARKED improvement here. Summer League doesn't have much post play but when they go down low to Meyers guy I've seen him literally dominate the guy so badly that the player barely hit the backboard with his hook shot. I saw this occur more than once. Wow factor here. He moved his feet, didn't give up ground, didn't just lay on the guy and let him spin by either (all last season he did this) and he contested the shot without fouling while being on the move. Clearly this has been their #1 focus for his defense. It shows, though its just SL for now.
3. Help Defense - He is getting there quicker and helping to alter shots. Still fouling, still a bit late but he isn't as clueless here and certainly makes an attempt. No big blocked shots but guys are definitely adjusting to him (floater instead of layup). He even is staying vertical at times on layup attempts when helping. Looking better but still fouls.
4. PnR defense - I didn't watch as much for this but from what I did see he is ok. Not sure how much improvement is here but I wasn't paying much attention and there isn't a lot of this going on. He has shown aptitude for being a decent perimeter defender though, surprisingly, when a switch happens. Saw some of this last year.
5. Blocking out - he is doing a better job at times. Especially on free throws. Most of time I hardly see this happen...certainly not on the offensive side even when he has position he lets it go. Seems more skilled at it when he does it though.
6. Jumpshots - looking great. No hesitation. When he does hesitate, he has a nice jab step shot that goes in if he doesn't pass out. He's been pretty efficient here. Shooting too much from deep but whatever it's summer league and a few have gone in.
7. Post Play - weird. He has a go-to-move in his right hook shot from the right block and NOTHING else traditional. He also has a VERY quick standing floater from 6ft that NO ONE seems to ever be able to contest or see coming. Its like something that 70yr old guy at the gym kills you with. It's weird and is kinda of a hook/shot put but is VERY natural for him and goes in ALOT. He operates best on the right side of the court which is GREAT considering LMA has no idea what the right side of the court looks like.
8. Hands - still average
9. Post Seal - Weak, doesn't fight for deep enough position and doesn't overpower smaller guys. Doesn't seal great but tries at times.
10. High Post - likes it here I think. Passes decent enough. Likes to shoot from here.
11. Dribbling - fair i guess. Doesn't do it a lot but can at times. His moves out of it are predicable enough to strip easily. Not much power driving here.
12. Finishing around the rim - I dunno...don't see a lot of it in Summer League due to poor passing and weak offense. He has always finished fairly well though, saw it last year at times with some reverse layup stuff. He did miff that one nice pass from TRob and get rim checked. Needs more power, more grab and dunks etc.
13. Passing - Fair to decent.

So the biggest defect is Rebounding. It seems like he is focusing on a few topics and as such certain things like rebounding suffer. As he becomes a more instinctual defender...his rebounding will open for coaching. This might happen half-way through the season depending on minutes or it might happen next year. He did show some potential for hustle and boards last game...thats the only reason I'm not predicting it will never ever happen for him. Before that game, he legitimately showed to be the worst NBA rebounder I've ever seen out of sheer lazieness. So it seems like its coaching. Remember that Meyers made a BIG jump in college. He has the ability and attitude to improve with dedicated, off-season coaching and has shown a bit of it this year and in college. We'll see if Gortat is still owning him like a 4th grader though in the regular season.

I have to say that what stood out for me, especially in the last game (where he got the 13 boards) was that he never catches the ball and makes an immediate move. He catches the ball and has to pause to think. And the worst moment was when he was given the ball right by the hoop, but in a bit of a crowd, and he got spooked and ran away from the rim out towards the three point line. It was almost comical. Compare this with JJ Hickson, who, for all his flaws, was an instinctual finisher.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

That got me very exite

 

[jlprk]

You are right. Perhaps we need to create a stat to illustrate his growth. Like the Player Efficiency Rating, or PER, the Severely Underachieving Center (SUC) stat would be based on how many times a player runs the wrong way during an offensive set, rotates to the incorrect side on defense, and commits fouls either by moving screens or using hands on defense.

I like it. There are 2 or 3 worse players in the league, but they were undrafted, not #11 in a strong draft.

I should have copyrighted that great dane puppy metaphor.

I said earlier in SL than he moves like a giraffe.

Maybe Meyers future is as a PF, where his inability to guard the paint will not be as important. How many blocks has he had in summer league so far, 1? I remember summer league scrubs like Stephen Hill getting 5 in one play. The Blazers are trying to force Meyers to be Joel Pryzbilla when he's really more like Channing Frye.

Channing Frye is his ceiling maybe 5 years from now. It's 50-50 he'll reach that level, but meanwhile the waiting will cost us Aldridge.

 

[jlprk]

Wow, watch this video whose title includes the word "aggressive." Look over Vanterpool's shoulder. First, Stotts sternly berates Leonard in front of the other assistant coach. (Which one is he? I've seen him before. Is he the disciplinarian?) Stotts raises his arms aggressively several times to sternly show Leonard how to play. This slowly infuriates Leonard. You can tell especially by watching the back of his head.

Stotts unwisely turns his back on Leonard to make sure the disciplinarian will back him up. By now, Leonard is in view over Vanterpool's other shoulder. Stotts renews berating him when suddenly, the enraged Leonard violently whisks his arms around his head, shaking his head as if in a voodoo death dance. Stotts calms him down, then the video mysteriously cuts off while Vanterpool is still being interviewed. I hope nothing worse happened then.

http://www.csnnw.com/video_content_type/vanterpool-despite-loss-played-aggressive

 

[BBert]

Wow, watch this video whose title includes the word "aggressive." Look over Vanterpool's shoulder. First, Stotts sternly berates Leonard in front of the other assistant coach. (Which one is he? I've seen him before. Is he the disciplinarian?) Stotts raises his arms aggressively several times to sternly show Leonard how to play. This slowly infuriates Leonard. You can tell especially by watching the back of his head.

Stotts unwisely turns his back on Leonard to make sure the disciplinarian will back him up. By now, Leonard is in view over Vanterpool's other shoulder. Stotts renews berating him when suddenly, the enraged Leonard violently whisks his arms around his head, shaking his head as if in a voodoo death dance. Stotts calms him down, then the video mysteriously cuts off while Vanterpool is still being interviewed. I hope nothing worse happened then.

http://www.csnnw.com/video_content_type/vanterpool-despite-loss-played-aggressive

LOL. If I believed you believe what you wrote, I'd ask you to seek help. You got me to watch the vid though, so whatever you're doing, it's working.

 

[Sinobas]

It's so rare for a player to come into the league, from any level, and turn a weakness into a strength. You usually see what you've got from the start. Meyer's just doesn't have it defensively. It's like trying to watch Channing Frye play center.

He does have offensive skill, and I think if he has success in the future, it will be as a scoring PF, who hopefully has fair post defense skill. Perhaps he'll be our PF of the future to replace LA.

 

[Sinobas]

Wow, watch this video whose title includes the word "aggressive." Look over Vanterpool's shoulder. First, Stotts sternly berates Leonard in front of the other assistant coach. (Which one is he? I've seen him before. Is he the disciplinarian?) Stotts raises his arms aggressively several times to sternly show Leonard how to play. This slowly infuriates Leonard. You can tell especially by watching the back of his head.

Stotts unwisely turns his back on Leonard to make sure the disciplinarian will back him up. By now, Leonard is in view over Vanterpool's other shoulder. Stotts renews berating him when suddenly, the enraged Leonard violently whisks his arms around his head, shaking his head as if in a voodoo death dance. Stotts calms him down, then the video mysteriously cuts off while Vanterpool is still being interviewed. I hope nothing worse happened then.

http://www.csnnw.com/video_content_type/vanterpool-despite-loss-played-aggressive

Huh? What are you talking about? All I saw was Stotts seeming to be calmly giving Meyers some pointers, and at one point, it looked like Myers was re-inacting how someone had wrapped their arms around his head or something.

 

[MickZagger]

Rik Smits carved out a great career not being that good defensively and having a great jumper. Leonard's only 21 years old, lets not close the book that he can learn how to play defense. Doing so is just being naive.

 

[magnifier661]

Rik Smits carved out a great career not being that good defensively and having a great jumper. Leonard's only 21 years old, lets not close the book that he can learn how to play defense. Doing so is just being naive.

That's actually a good comparison. I think that's his ceiling, but with more athleticism.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[BBert]

Huh? What are you talking about? All I saw was Stotts seeming to be calmly giving Meyers some pointers, and at one point, it looked like Myers was re-inacting how someone had wrapped their arms around his head or something.

Yeah, it looked like the 'disciplinarian' coach was actually laughing.

 

[jlprk]

Huh? What are you talking about? All I saw was Stotts seeming to be calmly giving Meyers some pointers, and at one point, it looked like Myers was re-inacting how someone had wrapped their arms around his head or something.

1:29 He raises his fists like a boxer, challenging Stotts to a fight

1:43 He loses all control and does a Chippewa war dance (he's from Illinois)

 

[ABM]

[video=youtube;eT9Y5npRly0]

 

[jlprk]

Rik Smits carved out a great career

Non-Pacer fans ridiculed him. I was his sympathizer and even I call his career good, not great. Most fans of his day wouldn't go that far.

 

[PapaG]

1:29 He raises his fists like a boxer, challenging Stotts to a fight

1:43 He loses all control and does a Chippewa war dance (he's from Illinois)

Joke post. Disregard, but we wub the old guy...

 

[PapaG]

Non-Pacer fans ridiculed him. I was his sympathizer and even I call his career good, not great. Most fans of his day wouldn't go that far.

Your opinion on a player means less than zero at this point. You do understand this, right?

 

[jlprk]

Your opinion on a player means less than zero at this point. You do understand this, right?

Drinking again? Tisk tisk. Jealous because I'm right about Leonard?

Joke post. Disregard, but we wub the old guy...

What a catch; that's why they call you astute. Or was it a stupe?

You better listen to the grapevine more carefully.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

"Summer Reviews: Meyers Leonard":

Now having been fair to Leonard’s circumstance as a developing player, his play throughout the week nonetheless could only be objectively described as atrocious, or subjectively, like cartoon aliens had stolen his talent (cue: “what talent?” joke) to play a basketball game for the sovereignty of Looney Tune land. Every time a pass headed in his direction, he would startle and fumble like the ball was a palantír transmitting the sinister gaze of Sauron, that is, if Leonard was even close to catching the pass in the first place. Rarely on the same page as his teammates, passes to Leonard had a higher percentage of turnovers than passes to any other target by an extremely unofficial estimation. He would post up, then inexplicably run away as the post entry was en route. He would cut his flashes to the rim curiously short. He would strangely drift away from perfect positioning under the basket. When he did have the ball, his newly favored jump hook failed to find the net unless he was wide open (although it did find the side edge of the backboard once). His finishing at the rim was as soft as ever, even drawing the ire of newcomer and noted un-soft finisher, Thomas Robinson. While his intriguing jump shot was effective at times, it is also the skill most extraneous in the archetypal franchise center. At times, Leonard looked more lost than he had last year, causing wonder that maybe the breadth of his focus on accelerated development in all areas had overwhelmed him, had him thinking too much, and that maybe he just needed to simplify the game back to catch ball, dunk ball. After all, he looked worse than Joel Freeland.

 

[blazedanugz]

"Summer Reviews: Meyers Leonard":

what were our team rebounding numbers? in summer league? oh that's right...definitely wasn't a problem. just because meyers isn't grabbing the boards doesn't mean hes not affecting the play. ill admit he is not a good rebounder but hes affecting plays with his size. plus he had numerous tap outs that he doesn't get credit for in the box score. that take on his play is completely overblown. "atrocious?" please

 

[maxiep]

There are players whose stats don't really reflect their contribution. Shane Battier is probably the best example of such a player. Then there are players whose stats completely overstate their contribution. Meyers Leonard is much closer to the latter than the former.

I'd look at his line after every game and think "Wow. He scored and rebounded a lot more than I thought." I'd watch him play and just shake my head at how bad he looked.

I think he has all the tools to be an excellent player, but clearly he hasn't been working on the right things since the season ended. He has been an enormous disappointment to me this summer; I hope he improves before training camp; he certainly has a cornucopia of things on which to work.