Zombie The Next Siakam? Don't Sleep On Zach Collins.

[hoopsjock]

by the way, Siakam has played 204 games, Zach 172. So, only 32 more games, less than half a season

and Siakam is averaging 23-7-4 while getting the defensive resistance a #1 option gets. But if you take away the 58 games of this season and jump back to Siakam's 3rd season, then he's at 146 games vs Zach's 172. But for Siakam, that's at the end of last year's playoffs when Siakam played 24 games. To get back to relative equivalence to Zach you'd need to look at Siakam at 120 games or so vs Zach at 172. At that point, Siakam was averaging 17-7-3 with a PER of 18.7 and a TS% of .628. Zach's at 7-6-2 with a PER of 9.9 and a TS% of .556

obviously, you can still trot out the excuse of the injury to explain Zach's lack of development, and maybe that's valid. But the 'he's-still-young' excuse is beginning to fail. I think the injury excuse is looking a little shaky too

If you're going to mention age I think you have to mention that Zach is just right now the age Pascal was as a rookie. Zach was 19 his rookie year and Pascal was 22.

 

[hoopsjock]

You can definitely tell who actually watched the video and listened versus those who just read the title of the video and commented.

Besides this video was made before the season. It's not really possible to know where Zach would be at currently had he not gotten hurt.

 

[PCmor7]

by the way, Siakam has played 204 games, Zach 172. So, only 32 more games, less than half a season

and Siakam is averaging 23-7-4 while getting the defensive resistance a #1 option gets. But if you take away the 58 games of this season and jump back to Siakam's 3rd season, then he's at 146 games vs Zach's 172. But for Siakam, that's at the end of last year's playoffs when Siakam played 24 games. To get back to relative equivalence to Zach you'd need to look at Siakam at 120 games or so vs Zach at 172. At that point, Siakam was averaging 17-7-3 with a PER of 18.7 and a TS% of .628. Zach's at 7-6-2 with a PER of 9.9 and a TS% of .556

obviously, you can still trot out the excuse of the injury to explain Zach's lack of development, and maybe that's valid. But the 'he's-still-young' excuse is beginning to fail. I think the injury excuse is looking a little shaky too

I wonder if the injury might actually make him more tentative.

 

[wizenheimer]

If you're going to mention age I think you have to mention that Zach is just right now the age Pascal was as a rookie. Zach was 19 his rookie year and Pascal was 22.

Sure. But right now Zach is 2 years older than Jaren Jackson and Wendell Carter Jr., 1 year older than Michael Porter Jr., Rui Hachimura (5 mos.), PJ Washington, Jarret Allen & Mitchell Robinson, and the same age as John Collins. Zach is only 5 months younger than Bam Abedayo & Myles Turner, and 6 months younger than Domantas Sabonis

Zach will be 23 in 3 months. He's old enough, and experienced enough, that you can start to draw conclusions about the level of player he's going to be. Certainly, he has room to exceed those new expectations, but when you look around the league at his peers and position, at best he's middle of the pack...and that's being generous

 

[kjironman1]

I wonder if the injury might actually make him more tentative.

It hasn't seemed to at this point?

 

[James lamphear]

Sure. But right now Zach is 2 years older than Jaren Jackson and Wendell Carter Jr., 1 year older than Michael Porter Jr., Rui Hachimura (5 mos.), PJ Washington, Jarret Allen & Mitchell Robinson, and the same age as John Collins. Zach is only 5 months younger than Bam Abedayo & Myles Turner, and 6 months younger than Domantas Sabonis

Zach will be 23 in 3 months. He's old enough, and experienced enough, that you can start to draw conclusions about the level of player he's going to be. Certainly, he has room to exceed those new expectations, but when you look around the league at his peers and position, at best he's middle of the pack...and that's being generous

Tell how many of those guys are the 5 option on the offense. What does that show up in the stats is set good screen and play defense he challenge probably about 95 percent of the shots the person he guards. He made numerous of players miss at the rim and due of not his fault we know clean up the boards. Zach not going put up big numbers on offense but his rebounds number are up his assist are up but his major role on is on defense.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Sure. But right now Zach is 2 years older than Jaren Jackson and Wendell Carter Jr., 1 year older than Michael Porter Jr., Rui Hachimura (5 mos.), PJ Washington, Jarret Allen & Mitchell Robinson, and the same age as John Collins. Zach is only 5 months younger than Bam Abedayo & Myles Turner, and 6 months younger than Domantas Sabonis

Zach will be 23 in 3 months. He's old enough, and experienced enough, that you can start to draw conclusions about the level of player he's going to be. Certainly, he has room to exceed those new expectations, but when you look around the league at his peers and position, at best he's middle of the pack...and that's being generous

his role isnt to score though. He is our last option of the starters. He is never going to get the looks to be able to get to those guys. he is supposed to be our defensive anchor.

He needs to learn not to foul as much and if so he will be fine.
If not it could be a shorter career than antiscipated.

 

[twobullz]

The other thing Zach needs to learn is how to hold onto rebounds. To many times he brings it down low and the guards steal it from him. Happens a couple times a game. Plus he needs to work on catching, doesn't have the best hands.

 

[wizenheimer]

Tell how many of those guys are the 5 option on the offense. .

his role isnt to score though. He is our last option of the starters. He is never going to get the looks to be able to get to those guys. he is supposed to be our defensive anchor..

ok...you guys are actually making my argument for me. You're both essentially saying that Zach is just a role player, like Harkless was. That's what I'm saying.

I'm not buying the stuff about Collins being forced into a role either; there is no hidden offensive talent waiting to be unleashed. If John Collins, or Sabonis, or Michael Porter, or Jaren Jackson were on the Blazers, they wouldn't be a minor 5th or 6th option on offense, any more than Trent is. They'd be getting there shots and would be climbing out of being a role player.

like I said, I'm not closing the book on Collins yet. But he sure isn't mostly blank pages at this point. He's played in 172 NBA games and unlike a lot of young players, Collins has played consistent minutes and had consistent opportunity

 

[James lamphear]

ok...you guys are actually making my argument for me. You're both essentially saying that Zach is just a role player, like Harkless was. That's what I'm saying.

I'm not buying the stuff about Collins being forced into a role either; there is no hidden offensive talent waiting to be unleashed. If John Collins, or Sabonis, or Michael Porter, or Jaren Jackson were on the Blazers, they wouldn't be a minor 5th or 6th option on offense, any more than Trent is. They'd be getting there shots and would be climbing out of being a role player.

like I said, I'm not closing the book on Collins yet. But it's loony to suggest he's mostly blank pages still. He's played in 172 NBA games and unlike a lot of young players, Collins has played consistent minutes and had consistent opportunity

Really they be getting there shots playing with Dame CJ Nurk and Melo they might get 7-9 shots if there lucky. Just because they're getting big shots on there team don't mean there going get those shots with this crew.

 

[Drttimmy]

It'd be nice if he'd developed a certain niche trait. Early in Aldridge's career, he would get easy points simply by sprinting down the court and beating his man. Can Collins do that? Is he fast enough to lead breaks? I'm hoping he can develop Pryzbilla like timing instincts when trying to defend shots. We could really use more backside blocks and generally better defense at the goal. He seems to have a pretty good stroke but is hardly a good shooter. If he's going to be more than a backup, he'll have to become a more dependable shooter than he is. If he was good at these three things, I think he'd be pretty valuable and starter worthy. Honestly, I haven't seen a noticeable improvement in these areas since he entered the league. Maybe he doesn't put enough time into his game, or maybe he's one of those players where it will all click for him at once. I'd say he needs to show it next year, but we were saying the same thing about him last offseason.

 

[blazerfan11]

I might need to script more videos because that's by far the smoothest and best recording I've had.

Have you thought about using a Teleprompter?
I would definitely use one. Watch this video.

 

[wizenheimer]

Really they be getting there shots playing with Dame CJ Nurk and Melo they might get 7-9 shots if there lucky. Just because they're getting big shots on there team don't mean there going get those shots with this crew.

Zach is getting 6 shots and he's minimal on offense. Melo is getting 13.4. Nurkic is getting 14. Trent is getting 12 (in the bubble). Jaren Jackson is only getting 13.2 for Memphis, less than Melo is averaging for Portland. Michael Porter is averaging 7 in Denver. Sabonis is averaging less than Nurkic. Bam Abedayo is averaging 11. It's not like these guys are getting CJ-level shooting opportunity for their teams

Blazers had no problem at all making room for Trent in the offense. They wouldn't have a problem making room for Jackson or Porter or Sabonis or Abedayo. The issue isn't a lack of opportunity for Zach...it's a lack of developed talent, ability, & consistency. Can he improve? sure. Is he better than a role player now....hell no

 

[Natebishop3]

Zach is mediocre as fuck. He's a role player. We never should have used a fucking top 10 pick on him.

 

[kjironman1]

Zach is mediocre as fuck. He's a role player. We never should have used a fucking top 10 pick on him.

Not saying you are wrong but really he has been better than mediocre in my book. He starts. He has played very well in some big games. Was expected to make a big jump and got injured. He has 9 games this year with like 9 months of shoulder rehab.
Maybe it isn't time just yet to throw in the towel on the kid?

 

[hoopsjock]

Not saying you are wrong but really he has been better than mediocre in my book. He starts. He has played very well in some big games. Was expected to make a big jump and got injured. He has 9 games this year with like 9 months of shoulder rehab.
Maybe it isn't time just yet to throw in the towel on the kid?

Yeah, we got a little spoiled with how well Nurk has played coming off an injury. It puts a bit of unfair expectations on Collins to come in and be dominant when he's younger and just got cleared for full contact a little over a month ago.

 

[Natebishop3]

he has been better than mediocre in my book. He starts.

Starting as a top 10 pick is not some kind of high bar to hit. To me, that's mediocre.

 

[Natebishop3]

Maybe it isn't time just yet to throw in the towel on the kid?

Also, I'm not saying throw in the towel, but god it's frustrating to spend so much to get him and he turns out to just be a middle of the road starter. Lottery picks should be reserved for major difference makers. I really don't see Zach as that guy.

 

[wizenheimer]

may not have been Olshey's finest day:

10 Zach Collins
11 Malik Monk
12 Luke Kennard
13 Donovan Mitchell
14 Bam Adebayo
19 John Collins
21 Terrance Ferguson
22 Jarrett Allen
23 OG Anunoby
26 Caleb Swanigan
27 Kyle Kuzma
29 Derrick White
30 Josh Hart
42 Thomas Bryant
45 Dillon Brooks
51 Monte Morris

**************************************************

I'm certainly not saying throw in the towel on Zach. I am saying there's lots of reason to lower expectations and look for a better starter. And for damn sure Zach should not be close to untouchable in any trade talks

there's a long line of young players Portland sat on, hoping for major development that never arrived and meanwhile, their value just fell and fell. Telfaire, Outlaw, Martell Webster, Jarret Jack, Sergio, Rudy, Bayless, Babbitt, TRob, Meyers....it's a damn long list and that's only the last 15 years. The thing is, for just about all those players it was pretty clear what they were going to be by the end of their 2nd seasons. Zach will enter his 4th season soon. Yeah, he's had a major setback so call it his 3rd season, if you want....but that doesn't explain everything.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I wouldn’t give up on him yet. We gave up on CJ right before he became a prolific scorer. We gave up on Trent before we realized he had a killer instinct.

I thought CJ was a scrub after his first 2 years. It was bad

Bigs tend to take longer to develop. He’s super young and shows glimpses. Has that personality type and hunger to get better. He’ll be good without a doubt in my mind. Just give it time.

just ours

 

[perkinsfor3]

Imagine being able to have one of these four guys on the roster now:

13Donovan Mitchell
14Bam Adebayo
19John Collins
23OG Anunoby

Also, I'd gladly draft Swannigan, and waive/trade his ass twice before I'd want Dillon Brooks on our roster.

 

[kjironman1]

Starting as a top 10 pick is not some kind of high bar to hit. To me, that's mediocre.

Seems like you missed the period in that statement and then decided to leave off the remainder? Not sure if that is a typo or what?
It's like saying "My dog licks" as opposed to "My dog licks his balls"
Sorry @SlyPokerDog but the truth isn't pretty sometimes.

 

[wizenheimer]

It's like saying "My dog licks" as opposed to "My dog licks his balls"
Sorry @SlyPokerDog but the truth isn't pretty sometimes.

actually, both of those cases could be truth for dogs...at least those dogs who haven't had their balls removed

"my dog licks" includes balls as unspoken lickage; that's a rule. I've had dogs that would lick everything...the sidewalk...the shit of other dogs...trees...dirt....door jambs...their balls....my bare leg...the kitchen floor. Their tongue's were limited only by their range and imagination. Basically, dogs are stupid...yet somehow for hundreds of generations they've suckered people into being their sugar daddies

when I was a kid, my parents had a dog that had a particularly stupid dog month: in maybe even less than a month, that damn dog got a face full of porcupine quills...vet bill...sprayed by a skunk....and then lost it's mind because it ate a bunch of my mom's thyroid pills....vet bill. That was basically meth for dogs I guess. Believe it or not that dog survived to live many more stupid dog years

 

[tester551]

may not have been Olshey's finest day:

10 Zach Collins
11 Malik Monk
12 Luke Kennard
13 Donovan Mitchell
14 Bam Adebayo
19 John Collins
21 Terrance Ferguson
22 Jarrett Allen
23 OG Anunoby
26 Caleb Swanigan
27 Kyle Kuzma
29 Derrick White
30 Josh Hart
42 Thomas Bryant
45 Dillon Brooks
51 Monte Morris

**************************************************

I'm certainly not saying throw in the towel on Zach. I am saying there's lots of reason to lower expectations and look for a better starter. And for damn sure Zach should not be close to untouchable in any trade talks

there's a long line of young players Portland sat on, hoping for major development that never arrived and meanwhile, their value just fell and fell. Telfaire, Outlaw, Martell Webster, Jarret Jack, Sergio, Rudy, Bayless, Babbitt, TRob, Meyers....it's a damn long list and that's only the last 15 years. The thing is, for just about all those players it was pretty clear what they were going to be by the end of their 2nd seasons. Zach will enter his 4th season soon. Yeah, he's had a major setback so call it his 3rd season, if you want....but that doesn't explain everything.

Wait a minute....
That cant be true. All I ever hear is how great a draft evaluator Olshey is.

 

[AldoTrapani]

Zach is mediocre as fuck. He's a role player. We never should have used a fucking top 10 pick on him.

I been telling ya for awhile the same thing. If this guy was a late 20s pick or something sure he’s Ight. But damn top 10? Fuuck no

Zach Collins sucks

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Once a player is on our team, what spot he was drafted at really shouldn't be an issue. Whether or not he's good enough to be our starting PF is completely independent of his acquisition cost.

Personally I'm of the opinion that he isn't; he is however good enough to be our primary backup 4/5. I think a legit starting PF (either via FA or trade) needs to be a priority in the offseason.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

Zach is getting 6 shots and he's minimal on offense. Melo is getting 13.4. Nurkic is getting 14. Trent is getting 12 (in the bubble). Jaren Jackson is only getting 13.2 for Memphis, less than Melo is averaging for Portland. Michael Porter is averaging 7 in Denver. Sabonis is averaging less than Nurkic. Bam Abedayo is averaging 11. It's not like these guys are getting CJ-level shooting opportunity for their teams

Blazers had no problem at all making room for Trent in the offense. They wouldn't have a problem making room for Jackson or Porter or Sabonis or Abedayo. The issue isn't a lack of opportunity for Zach...it's a lack of developed talent, ability, & consistency. Can he improve? sure. Is he better than a role player now....hell no

We need great role players. Being a role player isn’t a negative thing.

 

[wizenheimer]

Once a player is on our team, what spot he was drafted at really shouldn't be an issue. Whether or not he's good enough to be our starting PF is completely independent of his acquisition cost.

Personally I'm of the opinion that he isn't; he is however good enough to be our primary backup 4/5. I think a legit starting PF (either via FA or trade) needs to be a priority in the offseason.

I'd broaden that to say that a legit starting forward, either SF or PF should be the priority. Although I guess the NBA is evolving such that often, there's little difference between SF and PF. Durant, Kawhi, Giannis, Siakam....even Doncic. Those guys are just forwards. And there sure seems to be a new wave coming on: Jaren Jackson, Michael Porter, John Collins, TJ Warren (Pacers really stole one in that trade)

 

[wizenheimer]

We need great role players. Being a role player isn’t a negative thing.

I never said it was

but at this point, Zach is a long ways from being a "great role player". And Portland needs some great starters more than they need great role players. Portland spent 4 years with the role-playing starting forward combo of Aminu/Harkless. Don't need another 4 years of that under-achievement

 

[KSF-ERIC]

Wait a minute....
That cant be true. All I ever hear is how great a draft evaluator Olshey is.

He is. Dame, CJ, GT2. Zach is a solid player with upside.