The off-season begins. Discuss.

[Strenuus]

Marang said last night that there are two players that are needle movers that would welcome coming to Portland (referring to Dame's comments), and he also retweeted this. So I'm assuming Jaylen is one of those.

Ant + Pick 5 + Nas.

Dame/Shaedon/Jaylen/Jerami/Nurk is a sick lineup.

That trade doesn't even get close to getting brown. Lol.

 

[Predator]

Marang said last night that there are two players that are needle movers that would welcome coming to Portland (referring to Dame's comments), and he also retweeted this. So I'm assuming Jaylen is one of those.

Ant + Pick 5 + Nas.

Dame/Shaedon/Jaylen/Jerami/Nurk is a sick lineup.

Good lineup, what about the bench though?

Who is going to be there when Nurk gets hurt?

I also seriously question how good that team would be defensively.

 

[B-Roy]

That trade doesn't even get close to getting brown. Lol.

It depends what Jaylen wants, and where Jaylen indicates he'd be willing to re-sign. If he was already on a 3-4 year deal, I would agree.

Because of the extension rules, anyone trading for Jaylen NEEDS to know he's willing to re-sign, because he's going to hit UFA no matter what.

 

[Predator]

That trade doesn't even get close to getting brown. Lol.

Under the circumstances, it could.

Brown could essentially force his way to Portland.

Which is a whole other can of worms, but a top 5 pick in this draft is solid value. Guess it also depends how the Celtics value the pick.

 

[Natebishop3]

Marang said last night that there are two players that are needle movers that would welcome coming to Portland (referring to Dame's comments), and he also retweeted this. So I'm assuming Jaylen is one of those.

Ant + Pick 5 + Nas.

Dame/Shaedon/Jaylen/Jerami/Nurk is a sick lineup.

Nurk has to go.

 

[Samuel]

When do we all stop making excuses for the guy and just admit he's not a very good GM?

I think he's a super-inexperienced GM that has a lot of micro-management happening by Vulcan. That makes him a bad GM.

'I'm still learning' is something I want to hear from my 19yo future star players, not my GMs or my coaches.

What we think doesn't really matter, so I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I'm certainly not letting Cronin off the hook, just reminding y'all of what commonly happens in negotiations.

Remember when Portland's supposed pursuit of Simmons with CJ was repeatedly countered by Morey with 'we want Dame, not CJ?' I'd imagine something similar will happen this summer with Shaedon Sharpe. That's not excusing Cronin—that's just going to be a thing.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Ant gets you what CJ got. So you're really hoping the picks get you the star. And in combination, they won't.

Disagree. Ant is younger and has already done more than CJ has done at a younger age. His value is higher than when we sold CJ.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Ok, let's do this thought exercise.

Let's say for some reason all parties agree to do this. I have no clue why Toronto would want Simons, but ok.

Ant + Lotto pick + Future picks + cap filler for Siakam. Let's just assume we get the 7th pick.

Dame
Sharpe
Siakam
Grant
Nurk

Does that look like a LEGIT "contender"?

Day 1? No. But you're in the mix to compete. You'll need to get a good cast around this foundation but I think this would be really good. Would probably prefer to move on from Nurk and go in a more mobile direction.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I am probably the most pro dame person out there in terms of him staying, but his language the last few interviews is pretty telling. Cronin HAS to make the big splash this off-season or dame asks for a trade. It's literally ultimatum time.

I say the big splash should end with Dame on another team.

 

[KingSpeed]

This is the most important off season we've had in decades.

Will dame ask for a trade by mid season if we falter in this off-season? That's what is on the line.

It’s just December.

 

[KingSpeed]

You said that. Not me.

This actually IS. Because Dame could very feasibly ask for a trade midseason. Last year we didn't realistically have that fear. His talk now does have that feel.

People said that last year. He’s not asking for a trade this year, next year, or the year after that. He’s made that so clear.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Good lineup, what about the bench though?

Who is going to be there when Nurk gets hurt?

I also seriously question how good that team would be defensively.

I would move Nurk as well so when he gets hurt we don't have to worry about it.

 

[Tince]

This is the appropriate line of thinking. Stay away from the thought process that the team MUST go all-in or the team must move off Dame.

 

[B-Roy]

This is the appropriate line of thinking. Stay away from the thought process that the team MUST go all-in or the team must move off Dame.

It is great that we didn't trade Sharpe + Hart for OG last year, but Dame's patience has to be wearing thin. If no deals are to be had and we draft one of the Thompson twins (for example), it's going to be another year of straddling the line.

 

[Samuel]

Dame's patience has to be wearing thin.

I'd rather trade Dame at this point than sabotage the team's ability to win a championship.

 

[Tince]

It is great that we didn't trade Sharpe + Hart for OG last year, but Dame's patience has to be wearing thin. If no deals are to be had and we draft one of the Thompson twins (for example), it's going to be another year of straddling the line.

I'm sure Dame wants a major move to be made and he has every reason to want that. I don't blame him and would love for the right, major move to become available.

Having said that, I don't want to do what Minnesota or Dallas did, which was make a wreckless move and force an all-in attempt. That might keep Dame happy for a year, but would end up with him leaving anyway, and the Blazers with far fewer assets than they already have.

At the very least, the public stance from Portland needs to be that they are open for business, but it can't be that they are going to give up 4 firsts and young assets for a non All-NBA player.

 

[Tince]

I'd rather trade Dame at this point than sabotage the team's ability to win a championship.

I'd rather make the best move for the franchise, whatever that may be.

Trading Dame for pennies on the dollar would be unwise. Just as forcing an all-in trade would be unwise.

They need to figure out what the options are and then move in the best direction.

 

[B-Roy]

I'm sure Dame wants a major move to be made and he has every reason to want that. I don't blame him and would love for the right, major move to become available.

Having said that, I don't want to do what Minnesota or Dallas did, which was make a wreckless move and force an all-in attempt. That might keep Dame happy for a year, but would end up with him leaving anyway, and the Blazers with far fewer assets than they already have.

At the very least, the public stance from Portland needs to be that they are open for business, but it can't be that they are going to give up 4 firsts and young assets for a non All-NBA player.

Publically they should keep their plans vague (although Cronin has not been good at that).

Privately though? At this point I'm fine with either trading Dame to jumpstart the rebuild or going all in for Dame's last few years. I just don't agree with one more year of straddling the line, and I think don't think Dame would be quiet at that point either. He's given Cronin a lot of time. Two years to gather assets (Ant/Sharpe/Picks/Ability to open up picks). We now have to ability to realistically pivot one way or another so it's just a matter of execution at this point.

 

[Tince]

Publically they should keep their plans vague (although Cronin has not been good at that).

Privately though? At this point I'm fine with either trading Dame to jumpstart the rebuild or going all in for Dame's last few years. I just don't agree with one more year of straddling the line, and I think don't think Dame would be quiet at that point either. He's given Cronin a lot of time. Two years to gather assets (Ant/Sharpe/Picks/Ability to open up picks). We now have to ability to realistically pivot one way or another so it's just a matter of execution at this point.

Agreed with most.

I'm not "fine" with trading Dame, but if that's what proves to be the best move for the franchise to compete, I'm not going to rule it out. There could certainly be trades involving Dame where I'm happy with the return. If Cronin trades him, that better be how it happens.

 

[wizenheimer]

I'd rather trade Dame at this point than sabotage the team's ability to win a championship.

Dame, as a Blazer, is Portland's best shot at winning a championship. No alternative is close

trading Dame moves Portland further from a championship, not closer. And if you're trying to look at a longer time frame than the next 2-3 years, the variables mount so high it's just crazy guesswork and unsupported conjecture. Other than Dame, the only players certain to have guaranteed deals by the Blazers 4 years from now, barring trades, are Dame, Sharpe, and Little

 

[Mediocre Man]

I think you mean, “Dame implying.”

Probably, but in reality I don’t give a fuck

 

[wizenheimer]

Agreed with most.

I'm not "fine" with trading Dame, but if that's what proves to be the best move for the franchise to compete, I'm not going to rule it out. There could certainly be trades involving Dame where I'm happy with the return. If Cronin trades him, that better be how it happens.

if Dame is traded, I can just about guarantee that 99% of the opinions on the return from Blazer fans will be negative

 

[Tince]

if Dame is traded, I can just about guarantee that 99% of the opinions on the return from Blazer fans will be negative

Including the people who have been saying to trade Dame.

 

[wizenheimer]

Including the people who have been saying to trade Dame.

which tend to be a lot of the same people saying Cronin is a bad GM. So then, they want the bad GM that gets "taken advantage of" in trades to be the one that trades the best Blazer ever. They want "Sell Low Joe" to make the move.

 

[Ed O]

which tend to be a lot of the same people saying Cronin is a bad GM. So then, they want the bad GM that gets "taken advantage of" in trades to be the one that trades the best Blazer ever. They want "Sell Low Joe" to make the move.

I don't understand how attacking other posters over our hypothetical reaction to an undefined move is at all reasonable.

I didn't call for a trade of CJ, nor of Nance, nor anyone that we sent to the Clippers... I wasn't pleased with the returns of those trades because I thought it was treading water in the near term without adding any substantial assets in the long run. I wasn't a fan of trading for Grant because he hasn't been on very good teams, he doesn't rebound, and he's a pending free agent. I was critical of these moves because I didn't clamor for them and I didn't see them as net positives.

The Payton trade? Heck, yes, i liked it. I'm glad that dude is gone and I'm glad that we got some draft capital for what I thought was a terrible free agent signing... in retrospect, given we got value AND that no free agent we could have signed would have salvaged this season, I was wrong about the initial signing.

For me, personally, as good as Dame has been on the court and in the community, I won't criticize Cronin for whatever he gets. It's definitely not addition by subtraction, but the Dame era has run its course and we need to move in another direction. Maybe other people calling for Dame to be traded will be different, but not me.

 

[Predator]

This is the appropriate line of thinking. Stay away from the thought process that the team MUST go all-in or the team must move off Dame.

That’s also not what he said in its entirety. He said that they will “meet together on it and talk it through; we will make a decision and we will have to live with it.”

He also said that when you’re accelerating your timeline you’ve got to be OK with what the future holds for the player you traded away is. This in particular doesn’t inspire much confidence for me, particularly.

 

[Predator]

This is the appropriate line of thinking. Stay away from the thought process that the team MUST go all-in or the team must move off Dame.

I’ll add, he also said it’s not the same as last year because they’re trying to accelerate the timeline.

 

[boredinsalem]

This is the appropriate line of thinking. Stay away from the thought process that the team MUST go all-in or the team must move off Dame.

Say no stars become available or asking costs are ridiculous, what's the prudent path? Say we had the type of offseason listed below, is that a good team? I tend to think so (with improvement from Shaedon, but what do I know).

draft Taylor Hendricks, re-sign Thybulle, pick up option on Knox, sign Kevin Love with an exception, sign Mason Plumlee and Cory Joseph with exceptions, trade NYN pick to Bulls to get our picks back?

Lillard/Joseph/Mays
Simons/Thybulle/Johnson
Sharpe/Nas/Hendricks/Knox
Grant/Love/Walker
Nurkic/Watford/Plumlee

I think that team is better than last year's team from a depth, size, and development perspective (for Sharpe, Watford), but I doubt it's a top 4 seed. I suppose the powder would be kept dry once we could consolidate all of the signings for a mid-season trade, not sure how long you can keep kicking the can down the road though.

The roster would still be lacking a point of attack defender and rim protector, and I don't see great free agents out there. Maybe you could move Nas for Davion Mitchell or something like that. Not sure who would be a good young rim protector that we could target.

 

[Tince]

That’s also not what he said in its entirety. He said that they will “meet together on it and talk it through; we will make a decision and we will have to live with it.”

He also said that when you’re accelerating your timeline you’ve got to be OK with what the future holds for the player you traded away is. This in particular doesn’t inspire much confidence for me, particularly.

Correct. He said a lot more in the 18 minute press conference.

Any time you trade away a young player for a player ready to win, then yes, there is a trade-off for now/ready vs potential. He also pointed out that last summer and at the deadline there were deals they weren't comfortable moving forward with and that could happen again this summer. So he went out of his way to point out that they will turn down moves if they don't make sense.

 

[Cugel]

I would make Ant come off the bench.