Politics The OFFICIAL Biden vs Trump Debate #1 Thread

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crandc said:
You go out to eat wanting pizza. Only they don't serve pizza. Your choice is burger or dog barf. Burger not exactly what you want but infinitely preferable to eating dog barf.
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Hold on, are you comparing Trump to dog barf?

Don't insult dog barf like that.
 
bulls_with_booz said:
Decided to watch this thing after hearing about how disastrous it was. I think it's worth noting how debates sort of kick off election delirium season and stories gone in a day now last two weeks. I'm a contrarian prick at heart so the gaslighting on how Biden would go late in the first round as a wirey point guard did nothing for me. I get the impression that he's an old man, having old man problems, and it's been this way since the 2020 election. Reading up to this point, it sounds like I'm about to do the it's so sad to see grandpa Biden deteriorate on stage, how could they do this to him routine but that wasn't what I was seeing.

I genuinely believe the cope line from the Biden camp that he was overprepared. The closing statement was way too jumbled up and overwritten; much like whatever the hell that abortion turned immigrant murder horror story answer was. Trump is a soundbite guy, so I'm guessing they wanted to spotlight how shallow he is in comparison to a seasoned politician like Biden who (should be) deeply familiar with policy. It was the absolute wrong thing to do, you could see Biden doing a triple blink trying to remember his spots, his next talking point, doing cuts on the fly. His best moment to me felt totally spontaneous. Late in the debate as they're grilling Trump for being on some revenge mission, before they cut to break Biden says (brutal paraphrasing) "you lost and it broke you" that was good shit!

Trump clearly won the debate, but considering the headlines about a potential replacement, "off night" cope tweets and even some posts in this thread, it didn't come off as all that dire to me. To the point that I look at those panel shows suddenly acting like Joe is this spiraling mess a bit suspiciously.
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Same.

And, considering what Trump's SCOTUS did today, a lot of the damage from last night has been mitigated. Average Biden voters today weren't nearly as defeatist as the CNN panel last night.

Basically, Biden had the worst night on Trump's best and Trump still couldn't win a crushing victory because he has no substance. He can't win on issues. He only can win on presentation.
 
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PCmor7 said:
Same.

And, considering what Trump's SCOTUS did today, a lot of the damage from last night has been mitigated. Average Biden voters today weren't nearly as defeatist as the CNN panel last night.

Basically, Biden had the worst night on Trump's best and Trump still couldn't win a crushing victory because he has no substance. He can't win on issues. He only can win on presentation.
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Presentation is all it takes to win voters, unfortunately.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Presentation is all it takes to win voters, unfortunately.
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Yeah, many times. I like to think enough info is out there and this election is so important that this might be an exception. Stuff I've been reading and hearing today leads me to be more optimistic,
 
PCmor7 said:
Well, a little, but people seem to just brush aside that that convicted felon also tried to stop the peaceful transfer of power, said he'd be a dictator for at least his first day back in office, wants to end NATO, caused millions of Americans to suffer because he sent so many mixed messages about COVID and has gone into bankruptcy like a half-dozen times and had one of the worst economic presidencies in our country's history. Oh, yeah, he's only a couple of years younger than the doddering old shell of his former self and lies even when he doesn't have to.

It's not anywhere near an ideal situation, but comparing Biden's liabilities to Trump's is like saying Drew Brees had a weak arm so he's about the same as Mitch Trubitsky.

Let me ask anyone, aside from getting three SCOTUS justices, which really wasn't his doing as much as Mitch McConnell's, what exactly was the notable achievement of Trump's term in office? What is the big positive that he's known for?
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First, let me be very clear. I never want Trump or Biden in the whitehouse again.

I agree with some of what you said. There are many issues here to cover. But, respectfully, I disagree on a major point.

Biden claims to have improved the economy. Well for some it is better. The rich are getting richer.

But for the poor, and people on fixed incomes. We were far better off under Trumps economy. Plus, Biden is wiping out the middle class.

If Trump had not made so many mistakes as you mention. Biden would not have a chance in this election. Biden is a total fuckup, on so many issues
 
PCmor7 said:
Yeah, many times. I like to think enough info is out there and this election is so important that this might be an exception. Stuff I've been reading and hearing today leads me to be more optimistic,
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Well, that's good to hear. Hard for me to have much faith after 2016.
 
oldfisherman said:
First, let me be very clear. I never want Trump or Biden in the whitehouse again.

I agree with some of what you said. There are many issues here to cover. But, respectfully, I disagree on a major point.

Biden claims to have improved the economy. Well for some it is better. The rich are getting richer.

But for the poor, and people on fixed incomes. We were far better off under Trumps economy. Plus, Biden is wiping out the middle class.

If Trump had not made so many mistakes as you mention. Biden would not have a chance in this election. Biden is a total fuckup, on so many issues
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The middle class has been wiped out by right-wing supply-side economics and Reagan's attacks on unions since the 1980s. Biden can't be held accountable for that. It's not something that just happened over the last three years.

Also, Biden has taken steps to bring back some manufacturing jobs that should bring back some middle-class jobs, but a lot of damage was done well before he took the oath of office.

Trump, by contrast, inherited Obama's strong economy. Sure, it prospered for a while. Of course, he also exploded the deficit and the only tax cuts that he made that were staying forever were for the wealthiest Americans. In other words, if you didn't feel it from COVID, you'd have been feeling the pinch from Trump's economic policy eventually.

Speaking of COVID, I presume you mean the lower income brackets were doing better under Trump during his first three years than under Biden is his first three. Probably true. As mentioned above, Trump took over a thriving Obama economy. Biden took over an economy Trump wrecked spectacularly during the pandemic.

Not only did we have a higher death and infection rate, Trump's inability to come up with a strong policy during the pandemic had our economy suffering more than most of our peers in 2020. Inflation was a predictable outcome, but the United States under Biden has had lower inflation than peer countries, all of which have felt the same effects trying to bounce back from COVID.

Our economy was worse than our peers during COVID (Trump). Our inflation has been lower than our peers after COVID (Biden). Seems to tell me that the problem was Trump, not Biden. Maybe if Trump knew anything about macroeconomics and cared about Americans, that wouldn't be the case, but, unfortunately, he does not. And the whole 10% tariff plan or cutting income tax Trump's been proposing should terrify you if you really care about people living on Main Street, because it's pretty much universally acknowledged it's untenable for the country's economic well being.

Therefore, respectfully, I disagree with you. You observation is correct, to a point, but, in the light of greater context, your conclusion is not.
 
PCmor7 said:
The middle class has been wiped out by right-wing supply-side economics and Reagan's attacks on unions since the 1980s. Biden can't be held accountable for that. It's not something that just happened over the last three years.

Also, Biden has taken steps to bring back some manufacturing jobs that should bring back some middle-class jobs, but a lot of damage was done well before he took the oath of office.

Trump, by contrast, inherited Obama's strong economy. Sure, it prospered for a while. Of course, he also exploded the deficit and the only tax cuts that he made that were staying forever were for the wealthiest Americans. In other words, if you didn't feel it from COVID, you'd have been feeling the pinch from Trump's economic policy eventually.

Speaking of COVID, I presume you mean the lower income brackets were doing better under Trump during his first three years than under Biden is his first three. Probably true. As mentioned above, Trump took over a thriving Obama economy. Biden took over an economy Trump wrecked spectacularly during the pandemic.

Not only did we have a higher death and infection rate, Trump's inability to come up with a strong policy during the pandemic had our economy suffering more than most of our peers in 2020. Inflation was a predictable outcome, but the United States under Biden has had lower inflation than peer countries, all of which have felt the same effects trying to bounce back from COVID.

Our economy was worse than our peers during COVID (Trump). Our inflation has been lower than our peers after COVID (Biden). Seems to tell me that the problem was Trump, not Biden. Maybe if Trump knew anything about macroeconomics and cared about Americans, that wouldn't be the case, but, unfortunately, he does not. And the whole 10% tariff plan or cutting income tax Trump's been proposing should terrify you if you really care about people living on Main Street, because it's pretty much universally acknowledged it's untenable for the country's economic well being.

Therefore, respectfully, I disagree with you. You observation is correct, to a point, but, in the light of greater context, your conclusion is not.
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You like to throw out tons of talking points, without supporting facts. Lets dive deeper into just one. The manufactoring jobs Biden claims to have brought back.

First, Biden had nothing to do with so many companies leaving China. China caused their own problems.

Now, were did those jobs go? Most went to Mexico. A few did return to the USA. But, most of those went to strong red states that offer companies far better tax rates than the blue states.

Strange Biden would take credit for this.
 
oldfisherman said:
You like to throw out tons of talking points, without supporting facts. Lets dive deeper into just one. The manufactoring jobs Biden claims to have brought back.

First, Biden had nothing to do with so many companies leaving China. China caused their own problems.

Now, were did those jobs go? Most went to Mexico. A few did return to the USA. But, most of those went to strong red states that offer companies far better tax rates than the blue states.

Strange Biden would take credit for this.
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Yes, odd that Biden would take credit for something that happened in, say, Tennessee. After all, he's only President of California and New York, right?

And he's in charge of state tax policy in the states where he is President, right?

barfo
 
MickZagger said:
Could you imagine being so charged up politically that it becomes a lifestyle.


That’s MAGA and I’ll never understand it. Trump has nothing in common with them.

Bizarro world that will be looked back at in history like Wtf
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And they are just handing over money over and over to him like in one of those fraudlent super churches. Pastor Trump.
 
oldfisherman said:
You like to throw out tons of talking points, without supporting facts. Lets dive deeper into just one. The manufactoring jobs Biden claims to have brought back.

First, Biden had nothing to do with so many companies leaving China. China caused their own problems.

Now, were did those jobs go? Most went to Mexico. A few did return to the USA. But, most of those went to strong red states that offer companies far better tax rates than the blue states.

Strange Biden would take credit for this.
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For someone talking about others giving talking points without facts, you seem to be doing a lot of that. At least I gave you cause and effect.

Here are some facts for you:

As of May, Biden's economy has created/recovered almost 16 million jobs. Trump's economy lost almost 3 million. I believe that's the worst in the U.S. since the Great Depression, but I'm sure you have these figures. Right?

I have no idea what you're talking about Biden and China to me. And, if you don't want to be guilty of "talking points" like you say I am, maybe you should post some actual figures about all those jobs going to Mexico. I have a feeling you're going to find out it's incorrect, but please feel free to share your information.
 
Hoopguru said:
Joe needs to withdraw from the race and allow Amy or another to run. If Joe continues on and he is beat, the DNC is at fault.
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He's not stepping down dude
 
PCmor7 said:
For someone talking about others giving talking points without facts, you seem to be doing a lot of that. At least I gave you cause and effect.

Here are some facts for you:

As of May, Biden's economy has created/recovered almost 16 million jobs. Trump's economy lost almost 3 million. I believe that's the worst in the U.S. since the Great Depression, but I'm sure you have these figures. Right?

I have no idea what you're talking about Biden and China to me. And, if you don't want to be guilty of "talking points" like you say I am, maybe you should post some actual figures about all those jobs going to Mexico. I have a feeling you're going to find out it's incorrect, but please feel free to share your information.
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For the first time ever, in 2023, the USA imported more from Mexico, than China.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/28/busi...d competition,America more cost-effective and
 
I'm reading this link and I don't see where it has anything to do with what we were talking about.
 
bulls_with_booz said:
Decided to watch this thing after hearing about how disastrous it was. I think it's worth noting how debates sort of kick off election delirium season and stories gone in a day now last two weeks. I'm a contrarian prick at heart so the gaslighting on how Biden would go late in the first round as a wirey point guard did nothing for me. I get the impression that he's an old man, having old man problems, and it's been this way since the 2020 election. Reading up to this point, it sounds like I'm about to do the it's so sad to see grandpa Biden deteriorate on stage, how could they do this to him routine but that wasn't what I was seeing.

I genuinely believe the cope line from the Biden camp that he was overprepared. The closing statement was way too jumbled up and overwritten; much like whatever the hell that abortion turned immigrant murder horror story answer was. Trump is a soundbite guy, so I'm guessing they wanted to spotlight how shallow he is in comparison to a seasoned politician like Biden who (should be) deeply familiar with policy. It was the absolute wrong thing to do, you could see Biden doing a triple blink trying to remember his spots, his next talking point, doing cuts on the fly. His best moment to me felt totally spontaneous. Late in the debate as they're grilling Trump for being on some revenge mission, before they cut to break Biden says (brutal paraphrasing) "you lost and it broke you" that was good shit!

Trump clearly won the debate, but considering the headlines about a potential replacement, "off night" cope tweets and even some posts in this thread, it didn't come off as all that dire to me. To the point that I look at those panel shows suddenly acting like Joe is this spiraling mess a bit suspiciously.
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I haven’t watched CNN or any political news station in years but people are saying CNN is now favoring Trump?
 
SlyPokerDog said:
That's something that has always annoyed me. The only jobs that illegals have "taken" are drug dealers. Illegals just don't show up to someone's workplace, shove someone out of the way, and take their job. Someone has to hire them. Someone is making a choice to fire legal workers and hire illegal ones.
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Illegals don’t camp out on the streets and jack your catylitic converters.

They work hard to try and make a living for the most part.
 
oldfisherman said:
For the first time ever, in 2023, the USA imported more from Mexico, than China.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/28/busi...d competition,America more cost-effective and
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Well yeah. China is shit. It takes forever to get parts and then when they do come in you have to remake them anyway. And they are demanding higher wages now. And good for them.

Mexico is way better. Way faster. Way better quality. They just don't quite have the infrastructure built up yet.

But it's just as cheap and you get better quality parts, faster, from Mexico.
 
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MickZagger said:
Illegals don’t camp out on the streets and jack your catylitic converters.

They work hard to try and make a living for the most part.
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I've never had a Hispanic person (of any legal status) ask me for money. I've had illegal Canadians ask me for money...
 
Phatguysrule said:
Well yeah. China is shit. It takes forever to get parts and then when they do come in you have to remake them anyway. And they are demanding higher wages now. And good for them.

Mexico is way better. Way faster. Way better quality. They just don't quite have the infrastructure built up yet.

But it's just as cheap and you get better quality parts, faster, from Mexico.
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Yep, this is very good, for both Mexico and the USA. For a lot of reasons.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Well yeah. China is shit. It takes forever to get parts and then when they do come in you have to remake them anyway. And they are demanding higher wages now. And good for them.

Mexico is way better. Way faster. Way better quality. They just don't quite have the infrastructure built up yet.

But it's just as cheap and you get better quality parts, faster, from Mexico.
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de-globalization that we will benefit from down the road.
 
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