Politics The OFFICIAL Biden vs Trump Debate #1 Thread

[PCmor7]

Dems to incumbent president who has accomplished much in very difficult circumstances after admittedly bad debate: We have to replace him.

Republicans to defeated president who tried to incite an insurrection, is a convicted felon, has promised to be a dictator for at least a day, who put three unqualified conservatives on a high court that on Friday did much to destroy the interests of 99% of Americans, wants to abolish NATO, ruined millions of lives with an astonishingly poor and selfish COVID response, gave Afghanistan back to the Taliban and had no substantive answers on the same debate the Democratic candidate botched: "What can we do to help you?"

Biden had his worst possible debate and Trump was about at his best, and Trump only garnered a narrow win because of his lack of substance or knowledge of issues.

The Democratic Party has to stop apologizing for not pleasing everyone all the time. It needs to be proud that it's helping most Americans most of the time and striving to create a level playing field.

If you are a big-tent organization of any kind and you are continually paralyzed by the anxiety that someone in your group is going to be upset by something you do, you won't get anything done. Stop making perfect the enemy of good.

 

[jonnyboy]

I was watching a zoomed-out camera angle of the post debate, just before the cameras were cut. It showed Biden shuffling to the edge of the stage, slowly and carefully being helped down 3 or so steps. As if the debate itself weren’t enough, it was hard to watch without wincing.
I’m to the point where I don’t really feel right about even criticizing the guy, despite his destructive policies and corruption. This is really just sad to see. Who is allowing this to continue?

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

I was watching a zoomed-out camera angle of the post debate, just before the cameras were cut. It showed Biden shuffling to the edge of the stage, slowly and carefully being helped down 3 or so steps. As if the debate itself weren’t enough, it was hard to watch without wincing.
I’m to the point where I don’t really feel right about even criticizing the guy, despite his destructive policies and corruption. This is really just sad to see. Who is allowing this to continue?

I'll be 70 in two weeks. You should see me trying to get down a set of stairs. Lotta mileage on my legs (and body). Joe's almost 12 years older so you can only imagine......which YOU can only do until you have another 30 or 40 years of wear and tear to deal with like Old Joe.....

 

[jonnyboy]

Dems to incumbent president who has accomplished much in very difficult circumstances after admittedly bad debate: We have to replace him.

Republicans to defeated president who tried to incite an insurrection, is a convicted felon, has promised to be a dictator for at least a day, who put three unqualified conservatives on a high court that on Friday did much to destroy the interests of 99% of Americans, wants to abolish NATO, ruined millions of lives with an astonishingly poor and selfish COVID response, gave Afghanistan back to the Taliban and had no substantive answers on the same debate the Democratic candidate botched: "What can we do to help you?"

Biden had his worst possible debate and Trump was about at his best, and Trump only garnered a narrow win because of his lack of substance or knowledge of issues.

The Democratic Party has to stop apologizing for not pleasing everyone all the time. It needs to be proud that it's helping most Americans most of the time and striving to create a level playing field.

If you are a big-tent organization of any kind and you are continually paralyzed by the anxiety that someone in your group is going to be upset by something you do, you won't get anything done. Stop making perfect the enemy of good.

Yes, blame the voters. How dare they ask for something in return for their vote.

 

[jonnyboy]

I'll be 70 in two weeks. You should see me trying to get down a set of stairs. Lotta mileage on my legs (and body). Joe's almost 12 years older so you can only imagine......which YOU can only do until you have another 30 or 40 years of wear and tear to deal with like Old Joe.....

I’m not denying old age exists. Quite the contrary actually.

 

[crandc]

The debate was scheduled for 9PM. Biden worked a full day at being president with a cold. Trump spent the day having hamburgers delivered to him. I am same age as @UncleCliffy'sDaddy and I would have been dead on my sore feet.

 

[Galakelife]

The debate was scheduled for 9PM. Biden worked a full day at being president with a cold. Trump spent the day having hamburgers delivered to him. I am same age as @UncleCliffy'sDaddy and I would have been dead on my sore feet.

Biden cleared his schedule for 6 days prior to the debate. He wasnt working. So only pressing issues in the world can only occur during normal business hours.
Oh please they finally yet Biden come out unscripted and he showed his true self these days. He is not as sharp as he used to be and it is clear.
Yes i know the reply will be Trump lies, he is a convicted felon, he sends mean tweets...blah blah blah.

 

[crandc]

No pressing issues in the world for a week... And try proofreading your post. I think you meant let Biden. Blah blah blah.

 

[Galakelife]

No pressing issues in the world for a week... And try proofreading your post. I think you meant let Biden. Blah blah blah.

oh Im sory i speled yet with an L. i i wil tri 2 due beter next tyme.

 

[barfo]

I’m not denying old age exists. Quite the contrary actually.

You are conflating old age with dementia, however. Repeatedly, as if you were getting paid $1 for each mention.

barfo

 

[jonnyboy]

oh Im sory i speled yet with an L. i i wil tri 2 due beter next tyme.

*Thyme

 

[jonnyboy]

You are conflating old age with dementia, however. Repeatedly, as if you were getting paid $1 for each mention.

barfo

Actually everyone else here is doing that. It’s why people keep screaming “Trump is old too!” As a response to Biden being senile. I’m perfectly willing to admit Biden suffers from both old age (much like yourself) AND dementia (maybe just a tad).

 

[barfo]

Actually everyone else here is doing that. It’s why people keep screaming “Trump is old too!” As a response to Biden being senile. I’m perfectly willing to admit Biden suffers from both old age (much like yourself) AND dementia (maybe just a tad).

Well, you are wrong about both of us. Old age is awesome, I strongly recommend you try it sometime.

barfo

 

[Road Ratt]

This is really just sad to see. Who is allowing this to continue?

The DNC, of course.

The biggest problem I see with replacing Biden is: Which democrat polls well against Trump? Newsom polls nearly 20 points behind Trump. Clearly not an option. Biden is their candidate unless he dies, or they find a candidate that stands a chance against Trump.

Makes me wonder if Biden dying would garner sympathy points for the party. Just a passing thought.

 

[barfo]

Some sensible commentary from the Atlantic:

"Republican fealty to Donald Trump—no matter his crimes, no matter his moral transgressions—is the hallmark of authoritarian devotion to a man, regardless of policies or ideas. It’s the telltale sign of a broken political party—one that long ago abandoned principles and values, falling back instead on an amoral, unwavering allegiance, by which Trump can do no wrong.”

“By contrast, the Democratic freak-out over Joe Biden is a sign of a healthy political party. Individual leaders—no matter how effective, decent, or well-intentioned—are not sacred cows, to be valued above the national interest. Democrats view Biden the way that normal political parties view their leaders: as a vessel to achieve policy goals that will improve the lives of citizens. Nothing more, nothing less."

barfo

 

[PCmor7]

Yes, blame the voters. How dare they ask for something in return for their vote.

I think I asked this above in another way, but what exactly did the voters get from Donald Trump?

 

[PCmor7]

Yes, blame the voters. How dare they ask for something in return for their vote.

Or here's a better way of looking at what you said in your reply to me.

You're saying if you don't get everything you want from the one candidate you'll throw your support behind the guy that, at the very least, will give you nothing.

Obviously, living by that approach is stupid and will lead to an unbelievable amount of misery.

 

[PCmor7]

Some sensible commentary from the Atlantic:

"Republican fealty to Donald Trump—no matter his crimes, no matter his moral transgressions—is the hallmark of authoritarian devotion to a man, regardless of policies or ideas. It’s the telltale sign of a broken political party—one that long ago abandoned principles and values, falling back instead on an amoral, unwavering allegiance, by which Trump can do no wrong.”

“By contrast, the Democratic freak-out over Joe Biden is a sign of a healthy political party. Individual leaders—no matter how effective, decent, or well-intentioned—are not sacred cows, to be valued above the national interest. Democrats view Biden the way that normal political parties view their leaders: as a vessel to achieve policy goals that will improve the lives of citizens. Nothing more, nothing less."

barfo

On another message board, a fellow non-Trumper told me I was naive to suggest the damage from Biden's performance at the debate was repairable and it's naive to believe to think accepting it, moving on and still supporting Biden had any chance of winning. Here was my response.

"I guess this leads me to a question, though.

At what point in U.S. politics did you ever think the country would elect an inarticulate, vulgar, verbally-inartful, unfriendly, unlikeable person with no record of public service who was caught on tape talking about sexually assaulting women, was accused of a variety of sexual assault and sexual harassment, had an affair right after his son was born, who doesn't pay off debts, who was friends with a child sex trafficker, who is a businessman who's gone bankrupt a half-dozen times to be president? Gary Hart and John Edwards' presidential bids had more steam to start and were ended by much less. Al Franken lost his political career over similar but less. Howard Dean lost his campaign for screaming in glee.

Would you have thought someone naive to believe Person A had any chance at all to be president in the first place with all that in mind?

Then after a spectacular failure as a president the first time around, when did you think anyone with Trump's record would be a viable candidate to return to the White House? When did you think a felon who cozies up to Vladimir Putin and Kim Jung Un would be a front-runner for president?

What would have been naive 10 years ago might not be so naive now.

Trump cannot receive a pass for horrible actions because he's Trump while Biden is being gauged by campaign protocol from the 1970s.

Maybe I am naive, but, I think to throw up one's hands and accept this double standard and go into hiding for a couple of days because Biden looked old and struggled with his words in a debate against a guy that literally tried to overthrow the government and didn't answer any questions in the same debate shows an unhealthy amount of resignation and/or indifference.

The rules have changed. We either can use that or keep playing by some weird old playbook that no longer applies."

 

[PCmor7]

Actually everyone else here is doing that. It’s why people keep screaming “Trump is old too!” As a response to Biden being senile. I’m perfectly willing to admit Biden suffers from both old age (much like yourself) AND dementia (maybe just a tad).

Well, actually, they're saying Trump is just as old but at least Biden didn't try to overthrow the government, break up NATO, pay off a porn star after he had sex with her right after the birth of his son, say we could beat COVID by drinking bleach, didn't say White supremacists were very fine people, and Biden at least tried to give substantive answers despite his presentation issues in the debate.

But don't let a little thing like the truth get in the way of a bad false narrative in the name of your sycophancy.

 

[jonnyboy]

say we could beat COVID by drinking bleach

The fact you are still willing to repeat something like this in 2024 is why i will hardly engage with you.

didn't say White supremacists were very fine people

This is true, he didn’t say that.

Biden didn't try to overthrow the government,

Either did Trump. That’s just crazy hyperbole based on the (exaggerated) actions of a small group of people on Jan. 6

 

[PCmor7]

The fact you are still willing to repeat something like this in 2024 is why i will hardly engage with you.

This is true, he didn’t say that.

Either did Trump. That’s just crazy hyperbole based on the (exaggerated) actions of a small group of people on Jan. 6

And they say Trump doesn't have a cult. SMH

 

[PCmor7]

The fact you are still willing to repeat something like this in 2024 is why i will hardly engage with you.

This is true, he didn’t say that.

Either did Trump. That’s just crazy hyperbole based on the (exaggerated) actions of a small group of people on Jan. 6

BTW, asking for a third time: What exactly positive has the United States gotten from Donald Trump? What is his biggest achievement from his term?

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

Biden cleared his schedule for 6 days prior to the debate. He wasnt working. So only pressing issues in the world can only occur during normal business hours.
Oh please they finally yet Biden come out unscripted and he showed his true self these days. He is not as sharp as he used to be and it is clear.
Yes i know the reply will be Trump lies, he is a convicted felon, he sends mean tweets...blah blah blah.

And you're fine with those "attributes" in a world leader?????? Christ, you're just another burn it all down nihilist.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

BTW, asking for a third time: What exactly positive has the United States gotten from Donald Trump? What is his biggest achievement from his term?

I have literally been asking Trump supporters pretty much the exact same question since 2016. Every single time they have either gotten defensive and refused to answer, or they throw out the old, "He's a good business man" canard, which has been easily and repeatedly debunked. So good luck expecting a coherent response of any kind, especially one you can have even a little respect for.

 

[jonnyboy]

BTW, asking for a third time: What exactly positive has the United States gotten from Donald Trump? What is his biggest achievement from his term?

Why are you trying to demand this from me? Lol, i never even made the claim of Trump doing all these wonderful things. Also, i find it interesting your list of Biden achievements is just a whine-fest about Trump. All I’ve said is that Biden is a senile old man who can barely function physically or mentally, which is true. You refuse to admit this, fine. Not sure why you feel the need to shit the bed over it. Just piss off and bother someone else. It’s not like you’re changing anyone’s mind, they all have eyeballs. Maybe get yours checked.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

My worst fear about Biden exposing himself on national TV has come true, and by overwhelming popular opinion.
My initial thoughts after watching to debate were that he actually he did OK. My expectations were quite low and I got exactly what I expected from him. For those people who are still in denial, I hope you can learn to diversify your chosen news sources that led you down this easily avoidable path. The country is going to be handed over to Trump again, and it is your fault.

 

[MickZagger]

As a union worker Biden’s been a fine fine president.

I’m excited to see our Teamster president speak at the RNC. He’ll be speaking on wealth inequality and the importance of unions prospering and he’ll probably get booed off the stage.

Proud union talk makes the average American queasy. It makes a hardcore right winger want to vomit.

 

[crandc]

Trump used "Palestinian" as an epithet, Biden is being a Palestinian but not a very good one. Not a slip. He continues to use Palestinian as an epithet at his cult origes.

 

[Chris Craig]

BTW, asking for a third time: What exactly positive has the United States gotten from Donald Trump? What is his biggest achievement from his term?

He's not going to answer your question.

 

[barfo]

I’m excited to see our Teamster president speak at the RNC. He’ll be speaking on wealth inequality and the importance of unions prospering and he’ll probably get booed off the stage.

I hope you are right. I'm a bit concerned about the President of your (and my former) union speaking at the RNC. Do we know for sure he isn't planning to endorse Trump?

barfo