The official let's DUMP MEYERS thread

[BlazerWookee]

Man, some of you guys are going to shred your rotator cuffs throwing in the towel so hard.

We have absolutely nothing to lose by letting Meyers play out his contract here, and we have nothing to gain by cutting him loose right now. Personally, I saw some improvement last night, but it took a little effort on my part to see it, lol. He was banging with Howard for all he was worth, that's gotta count for something even if he wasn't banging well. The fact that he can shoot pretty danged well for a guy his size means he can spread the floor for Lamarcus and Damian, and besides, almost everything he does poorly can be taught to some extent.

He needs to cut off some of that damned hair, though.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I could not possibly disagree more with that bolded bit ... especially as it pertains to adults. If Meyers were ten years old and a pussy it might be possible to rewire him, but as someone who wrestled from the age of 10 until I was a senior in high school I feel confident in saying that toughness and "nastiness" (i.e. a willingness to fight and seek confrontation) is pretty much hard-wired into you by about age 12 or so.

As for Lopez I think his biggest liability coming into the league was lack of fluidity and skill. I don't know if he was "tough" or not, but I think he's always been comfortable with fitting into the role of a defensive minded center.

I think we have different ideas of what is being tough. In basketball, for him to be learn to be tough (in my mind) means for him to learn his position and them to fight and hold his position. He can't be afraid of contact, but he doesn't need to be a bruiser. He does have to be willing to bang bodies . . . but I don't think he is afraid of that, I think he is lost on the court most of the time and doesn't put himself in a good position to be physical.

I'm surprised you feel so strongly that players can't learn to be tough. I'm sure there are examples in many sports where young players started out on the whimpy and learned to play physically. I think it is one of the biggest jumps from college to the NBA . . .even finesse players have to toughen up in the NBA to succeed.

 

[BigGameDamian]

If the Blazers want to be contenders I think they will need another big that can rebound, block shots and play defense. I just don't think Lopez, Freeland and Leonard will cut it at center and I'm not a huge fan of playing players out of position especially your most important player in Aldridge.

 

[Blazinaway]

I started this thread to vent my frustration with Meyers - I see NO improvement at this time, I realize we could get little for him and we may as well keep him, I want him sent to Boise when they get going so he can play as many minutes as possible - assuming our other bigs are healthy.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

If the Blazers want to be contenders I think they will need another big that can rebound, block shots and play defense. I just don't think Lopez, Freeland and Leonard will cut it at center and I'm not a huge fan of playing players out of position especially your most important player in Aldridge.

I agree with this. Short term playoffs this year and to keep our all star happy, Blazers need to get another center on the roster.

 

[HailBlazers]

If anything we should've drafted Steven Adams over CJ, how's Adams doing anyway?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

There is nothing wrong with Meyers that a little 'roid rage couldn't fix. Does that Richie Incognito have a summer camp? Juice him up and send him there.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

If there was a stat for being in the absolute wrong place per possession, Meyers would lead the NBA.

 

[Draco]

LaMarcus Aldridge was a rookie at the same age as Meyers after two years in college. In his first two NBA seasons he averaged 9.0/5.0 and 17/7.6. He played competent defense as a rookie. LA has obviously improved since then but you could see 90% of what Aldridge is now during his first two seasons.

NBA players make small improvements here or there but they don't have radical transformations. You can make very educated judgments of a player once you see him in multiple games against NBA talent. We saw Meyers play all last season. Some of us diehard fans have watched him in summer league, training camp and in preseason. You can tell what skills he has and what basketball abilities a player has. Nic Batum displayed his talents as an 18 year old. Sergio Rodriguez displayed his passing abilities from the moment he was on a court. Luke Babbitt and Nolan Smith in their first year showed they’d never be more than roll players.

Meyers is never going to be a defender or rebounder on the NBA level he just doesn’t have those abilities. He might be able to find a niche role as a Matt Bonner big man but he has a long way to improve to get to that level. That is not enough upside to use a roster spot or a minimum contract salary slot for. Teams make mistakes in the drafts and this was one of them. Time to move on.

 

[blazerboy30]

What do we possibly gain by getting rid of him now?

I'm not trying to defend him, but using personal frustration with him as a reason to get rid of him for nothing in return, just so you don't have to watch him play, is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Well, thet's your 100% fan opinion.

And in the end, who kows, maybe you guessed right. But it's only been 1 year and he's young and somewhat immature. He clearly has raw talent (as opposed to some players who don't seem to have any at all). I think we need to make more of an effort to bring him along.

It's not an opinion, it's an observation, hypothesis, test and theory.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I think we have different ideas of what is being tough. In basketball, for him to be learn to be tough (in my mind) means for him to learn his position and them to fight and hold his position. He can't be afraid of contact, but he doesn't need to be a bruiser. He does have to be willing to bang bodies . . . but I don't think he is afraid of that, I think he is lost on the court most of the time and doesn't put himself in a good position to be physical.

I'm surprised you feel so strongly that players can't learn to be tough. I'm sure there are examples in many sports where young players started out on the whimpy and learned to play physically. I think it is one of the biggest jumps from college to the NBA . . .even finesse players have to toughen up in the NBA to succeed.

That development and transformation happens BEFORE somebody ascends to the pinnacle of their sport. How many seven footers that are soft as Leonard transformed themselves into starting quality centers after getting into the NBA? I can't think of anybody off-hand.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I want to give up on him, but realize that there are a few guys like Deandre Jordan and Jermaine scattered in the mix for every Cole Aldrich and Rafael Arajao.

We don't gain anything by giving up now.

Sure ... unless it's for a draft pick or a player who can help the team right now.

 

[magnifier661]

LaMarcus Aldridge was a rookie at the same age as Meyers after two years in college. In his first two NBA seasons he averaged 9.0/5.0 and 17/7.6. He played competent defense as a rookie. LA has obviously improved since then but you could see 90% of what Aldridge is now during his first two seasons.

NBA players make small improvements here or there but they don't have radical transformations. You can make very educated judgments of a player once you see him in multiple games against NBA talent. We saw Meyers play all last season. Some of us diehard fans have watched him in summer league, training camp and in preseason. You can tell what skills he has and what basketball abilities a player has. Nic Batum displayed his talents as an 18 year old. Sergio Rodriguez displayed his passing abilities from the moment he was on a court. Luke Babbitt and Nolan Smith in their first year showed they’d never be more than roll players.

Meyers is never going to be a defender or rebounder on the NBA level he just doesn’t have those abilities. He might be able to find a niche role as a Matt Bonner big man but he has a long way to improve to get to that level. That is not enough upside to use a roster spot or a minimum contract salary slot for. Teams make mistakes in the drafts and this was one of them. Time to move on.

Great post and repp'd! This is exactly what I'm thinking as well. I understand "rawness" and letting a player develop, but you can tell how a player will grow even at such a young age. There is this sort of demeanor about them. All of us knew about Babbitt from the get go. Many knew about Nolan Smith as well. I have been guilty with giving a lot of rope to our youngsters, hoping they can somehow turn the corner. Every time I have done this, our players have disappointed me. Leonard is no different. He will not be a Jerm. He doesn't have the mental capacity or desire to be great, proof with his lackluster energy when he had a great opportunity to prove himself last night.

Leonard will be our new Great White Hype "Babbitt" there will be flashes of "Take that haters!", but I suspect there will be more "Told you so" by the realists.

 

[magnifier661]

Sure ... unless it's for a draft pick or a player who can help the team right now.

I would be happy with Chris Johnson right now. That's how far my hope for Leonard is.

 

[blue32]

the dude shouldn't be out on the court. he needs to go play in d-league and get massive minutes there. out of position, hands made of bricks, doesn't understand how to box out, etc,etc.

 

[blazerboy30]

Sure ... unless it's for a draft pick or a player who can help the team right now.

Ah yes... the good ol' strategy (read: hope) that some other team will give us value for a player you are claiming has no value, will not improve, and should be dumped.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Ah yes... the good ol' strategy (read: hope) that some other team will give us value for a player you are claiming has no value, will not improve, and should be dumped.

I didn't say that it's realistic, I just gave the scenarios where where it would be permissible or advisable to give up on him now vs. later.

 

[magnifier661]

Ah yes... the good ol' strategy (read: hope) that some other team will give us value for a player you are claiming has no value, will not improve, and should be dumped.

Dumping him for a 2nd rounder saves us cap space. I would even be fine with that. Or possibly to a team that already has enough defensive minded players and needs a bit of offense from their bigs, IE Detroit, Milwaukee, or even Houston.

 

[Draco]

I know that this thread is as predictable around here as farts after a bad Mexican meal, but seriously, making any assessment of Leonard based on last night is laughable. He'd played exactly one minute in the three games prior to the Houston game. Then Freeland can't go and suddenly he's pushed into playing against a front line that includes the best center in the league and another center who's probably in the top 10. Of course he got abused at times, what young center in a similar position wouldn't? Leonard is a project and he's going to take time to develop. He's got good athleticism and a nice soft shooting touch. Yeah, he's totally lost out there a lot of the time right now, bu I have to think that given time he's going to develop into at least a serviceable bench player. There aren't that many of those guys around so, hell no, I'm not of a mind to dump right now.

The problem wasn’t just that Meyers got outplayed by Dwight and Asik. If he had been able to stand next to them but miss out on the rebound that would be fine. He seriously looked like me out there, flapping his arms around, being in the wrong spot, not getting a body on any defender, having zero clue where the opponent could be going. It was actually amazing that he was so terrible and on an NBA roster. Omri Casspi and Patrick Beverly looked more skilled as centers than Meyers.

This isn’t some one game sample, we’ve seen this play from Meyers all of last season, in the summer, in training camp, in the preseason. He does not have NBA skills as a big man. He can shoot the rock but that is it. There are hundreds of guys on the planet who are 7 feet tall. There are hundreds of guys who are “athletic” but not in a basketball manner. There are hundreds of guys who are 21 years old. To have the potential to be an NBA rotational player you need more than that. Meyers doesn’t have it.

 

[HailBlazers]

I call BS that players can't have radical transformations. Especially centers, it is by far and away the hardest position to learn. Especially if you haven't been playing it your whole life.

 

[blazerboy30]

Dumping him for a 2nd rounder saves us cap space. I would even be fine with that.

In that case, we can just hold him until we find a trade we like, and either include him in the trade or complete a different trade.

There is ZERO benefit to dumping him now.

Or possibly to a team that already has enough defensive minded players and needs a bit of offense from their bigs, IE Detroit, Milwaukee, or even Houston.

HAHA! So he's good enough to help other teams, but not ours.

 

[BigGameDamian]

I wonder What type of big man the Blazers could get in return for Leonard or Freeland & Mathews? I know then we would have a hole at SG unless CJ can be the real deal. I doubt your going to get much for Leonard & Freeland.

 

[magnifier661]

This is my trade

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=m2z49b2

Ian Mahinmi for Claver and Leonard. Why? Ian is a true center. Doesn't score, but defends and rebounds. We need another paint protector and Indiana would rather have another mid range shooter. Works.

 

[dviss1]

I'm not on the dump Meyers bandwagon yet. Some of you don't remember that we drafted him as a 3-4 year project.

 

[dviss1]

I'm also NOT on board for trading our best OTB defender either.

 

[magnifier661]

In that case, we can just hold him until we find a trade we like, and either include him in the trade or complete a different trade.

There is ZERO benefit to dumping him now.

There absolutely is benefit for dumping him now. I could see his value drop even more!

HAHA! So he's good enough to help other teams, but not ours.

Absolutely!!! One man's trash, is another man's treasure. We suck on defense. We don't need more offense. Obviously a team that sucks on offense, yet has a good defense would benefit from a player like Leonard.

 

[Draco]

What do we possibly gain by getting rid of him now?

I'm not trying to defend him, but using personal frustration with him as a reason to get rid of him for nothing in return, just so you don't have to watch him play, is beyond ridiculous.

If some team like Philly offers to take him I'd think about it. We'd get a trade exception and wipe his contract off the books.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I call BS that players can't have radical transformations. Especially centers, it is by far and away the hardest position to learn. Especially if you haven't been playing it your whole life.

If it were a matter of post-moves needing to be developed or filling out his frame and maturing physically or learning not to foul at such a high rate then I'd completely agree with you, but Meyers has an especially uphill climb learning to properly box-out, playing up to his size and developing a physicality that the position absolutely demands at this level.

Maybe it's possible for the Blazers to salvage Meyers if he was given unlimited minutes and five years to put it together, but no team would (or should) ever devote that kind of investment of time and money on a project player when it's so much easier and timelier to just draft or sign another guy.

 

[magnifier661]

So far it looks like olynyk isn't performing up to Boston's hopes. Could we swap Leonard for Olynk? Boston is in total rebuild mode anyway and playing Leonard extended minutes to develop is a much easier pill to swallow for them. At least Olynk could provide much needed rebounding and can box out.