The official let's DUMP MEYERS thread (1 Viewer)

[blazerboy30]

There absolutely is benefit for dumping him now. I could see his value drop even more!



Absolutely!!! One man's trash, is another man's treasure. We suck on defense. We don't need more offense. Obviously a team that sucks on offense, yet has a good defense would benefit from a player like Leonard.

Dude, just stop. Seriously.

 

[blazerboy30]

If some team like Philly offers to take him I'd think about it. We'd get a trade exception and wipe his contract off the books.

Why? If Olshey doesn't have some trades in mind what is the point of getting his contract off the books NOW?

 

[magnifier661]

Dude, just stop. Seriously.

No, I think I will go on.

 

[magnifier661]

Why? If Olshey doesn't have some trades in mind what is the point of getting his contract off the books NOW?

The trade exempt alone could have Olshey in position to obtain a player, especially if another team needs to dump salary for a said player.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Zaza Pachulia can be traded after December 15th. Just saying.

 

[illmatic99]

Sure ... unless it's for a draft pick or a player who can help the team right now.

Good luck getting that kind of value.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Typical knee jerk thread... I had to double check to see who started it. I thought for sure this was going to be a Mixum thread.

Look, the guy has played all of 16 minutes this season, and now were talking about dumping him? Seriously, even if the guy sucks, with Freeland out, who is going to play those minutes at backup center when Lopez gets in foul trouble?

His value is at an all-time low. So, it's not like we'll get anything of value back in a trade. And cutting him is just plain stupid. What would we possibly gain by doing that????

I get that people are disappointed in his lack of improvement, but unless you have a better, realistic option, what's the point of threads like this? Yeah, let's cut him and bring Jared Jefferies and his 2.2 PER back.

So, after we cut him and get nothing in return, who do we get to replace him that would address our need at backup center?

BNM

 

[Rhal]

There is little reason to dump Meyers right now. He isn't good enough to get a good return by himself, he isn't getting us a first rounder nor is he getting us a talented young player with upside. He would at best be a player to add into a trade or traded for a veteran big who really isn't good at all. We could add Jason collins and get the same defense from whatever veteran big we could get for trading Leonard.
Leonard is a classic example of a player who left college too early but he is also only a second year player who is on a rookie deal and has amazing physical potential. He was drafted as a project and is a project and isn't a big part of the rotation. We dont have to lean on Meyers and can afford to be patient with him for at least another year.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[Boob-No-More]

If it were a matter of post-moves needing to be developed or filling out his frame and maturing physically or learning not to foul at such a high rate then I'd completely agree with you, but Meyers has an especially uphill climb learning to properly box-out, playing up to his size and developing a physicality that the position absolutely demands at this level.

Teaching someone how to box out is one of the easiest things to teach. Look how much better Freeland is at it after a single off season. Last season, Freeland, even though he's older and more experienced, looked equally lost. After one off season, he looks like a totally different player. If Freeland can reinvent himself at 26, why are you so convinced Leonard can't do it at 21? It's not a given, but I hardly consider it impossible, or even improbable.

BNM

 

[Nikolokolus]

Good luck getting that kind of value.

Of course we can't. It was just a hypothetical.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Teaching someone how to box out is one of the easiest things to teach. Look how much better Freeland is at it after a single off season. Last season, Freeland, even though he's older and more experienced, looked equally lost. After one off season, he looks like a totally different player. If Freeland can reinvent himself at 26, why are you so convinced Leonard can't do it at 21? It's not a given, but I hardly consider it impossible, or even improbable.

BNM

Aside from taking face-up mid-range jumpshots what is Leonard's skillset? There has to be a foundation to build off of, I'm not sure I even see a foundation.

 

[santeesioux]

What's his ceiling? Bargnani? Meh.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

2012 Stats: 5.4 points, 3.3 rebounds, 0.9 blocks, 46.1 FG%

2013 Stats: 11.3 points, 5.4 rebounds, 1.6 blocks, 55.7 FG%

It seemed as if he was set in what he was going to be as an NBA center. He was a low-scoring, slightly inefficient center who could hang his hat on being a big dude who was a pretty good defender.

Suddenly when he's starting with the New Orleans Hornets, Lopez is blocking shots more frequently, rebounding moderately well (although he's about on the same page with his brother as a light rebounder for his height), and scoring efficiently.


Robin Lopez

 

[The_Lillard_King]

2012 Stats: 3.1 points, 5.3 rebounds, 0.5 assists, 50.6 FG%

2013 Stats: 10.3 points, 11.5 rebounds, 1.0 assists, 53.2 FG%

Obviously there was going to be some improvement with him going from averaging 14 minutes with the Chicago Bulls to getting the starting role with the Houston Rockets. But seeing him improve this much is quite the shocker.

He was averaging 13 rebounds per 36 minutes last season, so it's no surprise that he's come out to average 11.5 rebounds in 30 minutes per game with the Rockets.

However, what he's turned into offensively is something nobody expected.

James Harden has spent the year penetrating and forcing the ball into Asik's hands and seeing what happens.

He's gone from being a stone-handed nincompoop to a dude who can catch the ball and almost look competent in the post.

He's only improved by a few percentage points from the field, but when he was scoring last season, it was a lot of alley-oops and situations where he would just catch and dunk. Now he's actually scoring after moving with the ball.

Omer Asik

* * *

Watching Tristan Thompson play last season was like watching a baby learning to crawl, only to see him running the 100-meter dash 10 months later.

He's confident, more sure-handed, and even developing a pseudo jump shot, a jump hook and rocking rims every time he's in the post.

* * *
2012 Stats: 2.7 points, 2.8 rebounds, 0.4 assists, 36.7 FG%, no three-pointers

2013 Stats: 7.5 points, 6.0 rebounds, 1.1 assists, 49.1 FG%, 48.3 3PT%

Earl Clark was on track to spend another year on the bench, getting minutes in blowouts and whenever big dudes got injured, but somewhere along the way Mike D'Antoni realized what he had in the jump-shooting big man.

Clark isn't dominant in any facet of his game, but he's acceptable enough to contribute

* * *

2012 Stats: 5.5 points, 4.8 rebounds, 0.6 assists, 0.7 blocks, 45 FG%

2013 Stats: 12.1 points, 11.3 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 1.2 blocks, 52.4 FG%

Nikola Vucevic got plenty of time to show off what he could do for the Philadelphia 76ers last season, and it looked like he'd be a fine player in three years or so, given work behind a smart big man who could teach him what to do.

Suddenly he's going out and averaging a double-double, shooting the lights out, showing off some impressive low-post skills, and even defending much better than he ever did a season ago.

* * *

2012 Stats: Garbage and nothing

2013 Stats: 10.5 points, 5.5 rebounds, 1.1 steals, 0.7 blocks, 49.4 FG%

Andray Blatche spent his final season with the Washington Wizards as a complete bum. He might as well have been shooting one-handed and blindfolded with how sparingly he saw a shot go in.

Blatche had become such a disappointing player that his team's fans openly loathed him and he had worked himself two-thirds of the way out of the league based on reputation alone.

The coming months saw Blatche amnestied by the Wizards and picked up by the Brooklyn Nets for just over $1 million.

Now it's easily argued that he's the best man off the bench for the Nets, and even that he's a formidable defender alongside Reggie Evans.

 

[noknobs]

I'm not yet giving up on him, but I don't want to see him play until he's improved. Last night really underscored how thin we are at the 4/5. If Aldridge/Lopez, and even Freeland miss a single game we're screwed against bigger teams. This is why I couldn't understand picking up both Watson and Mo after drafting CJ. Instead of Watson we needed to pick up another big.

Leonard cannot, must not, be allowed to play. It's imperative that he never ever enter the game when it matters. For if he does, all is lost.

 

[HailBlazers]

That's the thing with Big Men, building the foundation is the hardest part. It takes lots of real time reps, and at the detriment to your team are hard to come by. Once the foundation is solid (often years into the league), it is only then that you'll start to see big jumps in effectiveness.

P.S. Repped Treaty

 

[magnifier661]

I'm not yet giving up on him, but I don't want to see him play until he's improved. Last night really underscored how thin we are at the 4/5. If Aldridge/Lopez, and even Freeland miss a single game we're screwed against bigger teams. This is why I couldn't understand picking up both Watson and Mo after drafting CJ. Instead of Watson we needed to pick up another big.

Leonard cannot, must not, be allowed to play. It's imperative that he never ever enter the game when it matters. For if he does, all is lost.

I was really hoping we could have gotten Jerm for 2 mil. I think that would have been just enough to keep our size, plus give Leonard more time to develop.

 

[HailBlazers]

I was really hoping we could have gotten Jerm for 2 mil. I think that would have been just enough to keep our size, plus give Leonard more time to develop.

It's not all about time though. It's about action on the court. If Jerm were here Meyers would get absolutely no burn and have even less to learn from. We are not contenders on par with the Warriors.

Leonard cannot, must not, be allowed to play. It's imperative that he never ever enter the game when it matters. For if he does, all is lost.

Like our championship aspirations?

 

[Natebishop3]

I just remember how much people got annoyed at Jermaine, and how everyone thought we pulled one over on Indiana when they dealt us Dale Davis on the heels of an All-Star performance for the Pacers. The next year Jermaine blew it up and went on to numerous All-Star games.

Obviously they're different players, but that was after we had already given Jermaine four or five years to develop. Meyers has had not even 1.5 years. He's our third string center. I get that people want a whipping boy, but it's pretty ridiculous how fast some of you jump on him. He was playing against the absolute best center in the league last night. Yes, he looked like shit. He needs a big man coach. He needs some playing time.

I think some of you hate him because he looks like a big goofy frat boy.

 

[Natebishop3]

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/sep/01/sports/sp-13781

With Davis, the Blazers clearly got the best of the swap of 6-foot-11 players.

Davis, who helped lead the Pacers to the NBA finals against the Lakers, averaged 10 points and 9.9 rebounds, leading Indiana in rebounding for the seventh consecutive year and making his first All-Star team.

O'Neal, who came into the NBA out of Eau Claire (S.C.) high school, has contributed virtually nothing in his four pro seasons. He averaged only 12.3 minutes, 3.9 points and 3.3 rebounds last season and couldn't crack the rotation playing behind forwards Rasheed Wallace and Brian Grant.

"I just don't think he was as talented as the guys who were playing in front of him," Blazer Coach Mike Dunleavy said.

 

[magnifier661]

It's not all about time though. It's about action on the court. If Jerm were here Meyers would get absolutely no burn and have even less to learn from. We are not contenders on par with the Warriors.

Then send him to the "D-league" and get as much time as he needs. Leonard lacks even the simplest fundamentals. Obviously in the "Big Leagues" this inefficiency becomes paramount. Let him learn in the D-League

 

[Natebishop3]

We should trade him for Jermaine O'Neal.... then the circle of life will be complete.

 

[illmatic99]

...

Great analysis.

One point to consider with every one of your examples: Their improvement came with a change of teams.

 

[oldmangrouch]

I'm not on the dump Meyers bandwagon yet. Some of you don't remember that we drafted him as a 3-4 year project.

No, we all remember it. It's just that some see that as an excuse - and some see it as the root of the problem!

 

[magnifier661]

I think my biggest beef necessarily isn't Leonard, but that Leonard is called to be our back-up. Freeland actually should be fighting with T. Rob for the back-up PF spot, with the occasional center duties. Problem is, he is our back-up center. T. Rob hasn't been producing right now at PF, so we have 2 developing players as a major back-up to our bigs. I wouldn't be crying all game and after if we had a player like Jerm to give us solid production. So as much as I beef about Leonard, I just want a quality rotation. Obviously that quality is seriously lacking right now.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Great analysis.

One point to consider with every one of your examples: Their improvement came with a change of teams.

Tristan Thompson and Earl Clark and I think are playing for the same team. But here is another example of a big man turning it around for the same team:

2012 Stats: 3.6 points, 3.1 rebounds, 1.5 blocks, 45.7 FG%

2013 Stats: 8.5 points, 8.5 rebounds, 3.2 blocks, 52.5 FG%

It's hard to justify having a stone-hands big man playing in the post while shooting just 45 percent from the floor and committing a foul once every five minutes.

That's why seeing Larry Sanders come out this season and turn into a viable starting center, playing well enough offensively so that we can see just how good he is defensively, is so impressive.

Not only has he completely bumped up his offensive game to the point that he can actually be relied upon to put a bucket in every once in a while, but he's also cut down on his fouling so that he's committing a foul once every seven minutes, instead of five.

Oh, and I suppose it's important to mention here that he's also leading the league in blocks per game. Which one of you saw that coming?

 

[illmatic99]

Oh you're right.

How much of this is just a result of increased minutes? Is there a jump in the per 36 production?

 

[oldmangrouch]

I call BS that players can't have radical transformations. Especially centers, it is by far and away the hardest position to learn. Especially if you haven't been playing it your whole life.

Phooey. PG is the toughest position to learn.

That's what made Lillard so freaking impressive.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Meyers is really bad at basketball. He probably won't get much better if this is as good as he's gotten in 21 years.

He should not be playing at all, but unless we sign or trade for someone better, he'll be suiting up every game.

 

[Draco]

I just remember how much people got annoyed at Jermaine, and how everyone thought we pulled one over on Indiana when they dealt us Dale Davis on the heels of an All-Star performance for the Pacers. The next year Jermaine blew it up and went on to numerous All-Star games.

Obviously they're different players, but that was after we had already given Jermaine four or five years to develop. Meyers has had not even 1.5 years. He's our third string center. I get that people want a whipping boy, but it's pretty ridiculous how fast some of you jump on him. He was playing against the absolute best center in the league last night. Yes, he looked like shit. He needs a big man coach. He needs some playing time.

I think some of you hate him because he looks like a big goofy frat boy.

We must have totally different memories of Jermaine. He was a talented up and comer when he was here but stuck behind Brian Grant, Sabonis, and Rasheed Wallace. The Blazers only roadblock to a title was Shaq and Dale Davis had played him as well as anyone in the finals. I still don’t think Jermaine would’ve faired better defending Shaq than Dale. The Blazers were mortgaging the future for the best players they could get to play today. We had just resigned Jermaine to a 4 year contract so management obviously thought very highly of him. The chance came to acquire an all-star so the team decided to take that deal. Jermaine was thought of very highly by fans and management of the Blazers during all 4 of his years here. Jermaine hustled on the court and showed glimpses of something special. Meyers has never displayed similar potential.