The Official S2 NBA Lockout Thread!

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Pinwheel1 said:
Bucher's column suggests "conditions" by the owners that are IMO very attainable. If this is all it would take then I see a deal being made. You guys see any problems with these? (Other than the BRI being closer to 50% than 48%)


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7...tern-threaten-cancellation-season-sources-say

"Bucher reported Tuesday night that owners did not offer players a finite annual team limit on salaries but are willing to relax their insistence on a hard cap only if certain conditions are met.

Those conditions include:

• The "Larry Bird exception," which allows teams to exceed the cap to retain their own free agents regardless of their other committed salaries, is limited to one player per team per season.

• The mid-level exception, which the league valued at $5.8 million last season and could be extended by as many as five years, is reduced in length and size.

• The current luxury tax, the $1-for-$1 penalty a team must pay to the league for the amount it exceeds the salary cap, is to be severely increased.

In last week's negotiating session, owners proposed that the players' share of basketball-related income (BRI) be sliced from 57 percent to 46 percent. Broussard reported Tuesday that the owners' BRI offer had increased to 48 percent.

Sources say that the owners also want a five percent reduction on all existing salaries for this season, a 7.5 percent reduction of all 2012-13 salaries and 10 percent reduction of 2013-14 salaries.
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Ok fine, let's say that's all it takes to get a deal done, that sounds great in the near term (yay basketball), but if you are a Blazers' fan this does more longterm harm than good. Why you ask? Well if there is no robust revenue sharing model developed by the owners -- and maybe they are working on this separately from the CBA? -- and they increase the luxury tax it's going to cripple small market teams with high salaries, whose only competitive advantage is an owner willing to stake a lot of his personal fortune on the line without hope of recouping that financial loss, sort of like our very own Blazers.

A more onerous luxury tax ultimately means when PA finally kicks the bucket it's going to be even harder for his heirs or potential buyers to make the team a going concern in Portland. If the team isn't going to be run like a hobby, then the choice will either be profitability through low salaries or competitiveness by over-spending on salary or just moving the team to a larger market.

For the long-term viability of the team in Portland (or really any small market) the deal you actually want to hear about is an NFL style, hard-capped system with revenue sharing and partially guaranteed contracts.
 
Nikolokolus said:
Ok fine, let's say that's all it takes to get a deal done, that sounds great in the near term (yay basketball), but if you are a Blazers' fan this does more longterm harm than good. Why you ask? Well if there is no robust revenue sharing model developed by the owners -- and maybe they are working on this separately from the CBA? -- and they increase the luxury tax it's going to cripple small market teams with high salaries, whose only competitive advantage is an owner willing to stake a lot of his personal fortune on the line without hope of recouping that financial loss, sort of like our very own Blazers.

A more onerous luxury tax ultimately means when PA finally kicks the bucket it's going to be even harder for his heirs or potential buyers to make the team a going concern in Portland. If the team isn't going to be run like a hobby, then the choice will either be profitability through low salaries or competitiveness by over-spending on salary or just moving the team to a larger market.

For the long-term viability of the team in Portland (or really any small market) the deal you actually want to hear about is an NFL style, hard-capped system with revenue sharing and partially guaranteed contracts.
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I think a lot of people forget that by having a hard cap, it will hurt the small market teams. There will literally be no incentive to stay in Portland instead of going to NY or LA
 
Wow, not looking good. With players like Kobe going overseas and the owners not bargaining in good faith for the betterment of everyone I have a hard time envisioning a 2011-2012 season. :sigh:
 
HailBlazers said:
Wow, not looking good. With players like Kobe going overseas and the owners not bargaining in good faith for the betterment of everyone I have a hard time envisioning a 2011-2012 season. :sigh:
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I think it will get done this weekend. Someone with actual fairly close knowledge of this said Nov. 1st. We will have a season for sure I think. The owners have already given twice. It';s the players who haven't moved off their stance BTW
 
Interesting how people have such different opinions about this lockout looking at the same info. I love this place.
 
Mediocre Man said:
I think a lot of people forget that by having a hard cap, it will hurt the small market teams. There will literally be no incentive to stay in Portland instead of going to NY or LA
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Some would argue that it is better for the small market teams because if there is a hard cap it wil be harder for the bigger market teams to have room for more top players. What hurts the small markets IMO is shorter contracts. I think the longer they stay in Portland, the more they lke it.
 
@sheridanhoops........

Players now meeting amongst themselves prior to start of lockout negotiating session. L.James, C.Anthony, D.Wade, K.Durant are here.

Is this a good or bad thing that the "superstars" are there. Usually there views of things are different then the other 350 players.
 
HCP said:
@sheridanhoops........

Players now meeting amongst themselves prior to start of lockout negotiating session. L.James, C.Anthony, D.Wade, K.Durant are here.

Is this a good or bad thing that the "superstars" are there. Usually there views of things are different then the other 350 players.
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I hope I am wrong but I think no deal gets done this weekend. I don't think the players are ready to "give enough" to satisfy the owners. Hope I am wrong and you are back to work soon!!
 
HCP said:
@sheridanhoops........

Players now meeting amongst themselves prior to start of lockout negotiating session. L.James, C.Anthony, D.Wade, K.Durant are here.

Is this a good or bad thing that the "superstars" are there. Usually there views of things are different then the other 350 players.
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Not sure, but if they signed off on the rumored 5-10% reduction on current salaries, than that would go along ways in the negotiations. They should, but would they?
 
Another thought on the rumored 5-10% reductions of current contracts, if they can get a full season in, than that would make up for the reduction. Even if the contract is 2-3 years. Of course there are a lot of variables, but I think they should concede that one if the owner give in on the hard cap.
 
HCP said:
Interesting how people have such different opinions about this lockout looking at the same info. I love this place.
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How's Taco Bell treating you? Are you like twice as old as your boss?

Anyhow, it could be that a guy like Kobe is trying to score a few extra bucks while the deal is done. Or he's trying to put some pressure on the owners, who don't need their stars getting dinged up overseas. Either way, it beats sitting around doing nothing.
 
I see the owners quickly spending up to a hard cap, and then they'd have zero ability to sign even a D League player. A contract like Roy's would be a ridiculous burden, even though he was worth it before getting hurt.
 
Denny Crane said:
How's Taco Bell treating you? Are you like twice as old as your boss?

Anyhow, it could be that a guy like Kobe is trying to score a few extra bucks while the deal is done. Or he's trying to put some pressure on the owners, who don't need their stars getting dinged up overseas. Either way, it beats sitting around doing nothing.
Click to expand...

Not sure what Kobe's intentions are, but I think it helps. At the very least, it doesn't hurt.
 
Denny Crane said:
I see the owners quickly spending up to a hard cap, and then they'd have zero ability to sign even a D League player. A contract like Roy's would be a ridiculous burden, even though he was worth it before getting hurt.
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Not sure they would have to spend anything to reach the cap. Most will already be there. I think we will see a soft cap and a huge luxury tax that will pay the teams under.

$2-$1? what is it now? 1-1?
 
I think the big names there is a good sign. Bigger names and larger number of players don't generally start getting called in for a group discussion this late in the lockout unless progress has been made of a significant nature.
 
I don't understand why players are so insistent on not having a hard cap?

Players were previously guaranteed exactly 57% of revenue, regardless of every team spending double the salary cap like the Lakers or a portion of the cap like the Kings. The players were all paid the exact same amount as a group regardless of total NBA team payroll. If teams as a group greatly exceeded the cap the players had their pay withheld which they lost. If teams as a whole paid far under the cap the players got a huge extra bonus check at the end of the season.

If the players are again guaranteed an exact percentage of basketball revenue (48-54% or whatever) having a soft or hard cap has ZERO affect on total player salaries.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Not sure they would have to spend anything to reach the cap. Most will already be there. I think we will see a soft cap and a huge luxury tax that will pay the teams under.

$2-$1? what is it now? 1-1?
Click to expand...

Yeah I saw one article that said there would be a sliding scale, so for example first $10mil over cap is 1-1 lux tax, then 2-1 for the next $10mil spent, then 3-1, finally 4-1 at the top. So a team spending $85 mil and wanting to spend another $3 million would have to dish out $12 million extra in additional luxury tax A $3mil deal would cost $15mil total!

That wouldn't affect any money going to players, but it would greatly redistribute salary from the higher payroll franchises to the lower payroll ones.

I also heard they are seriously considering an amensty clause for one player on each team for both luxury tax AND salary cap relief. Good news for the Brandon Roy bashers!
 
@WojYahoo........

One participant in labor meeting has told (texted) associates on the outside that there's "been a spirit of cooperation" in the room today.
 
Theo Ratliff, union exec committee member, just left. Said meeting is still going on and looks like there will be a Saturday session...
 
From official who's talked w/ people in room: More than one previously hardline owner, including Dan Gilbert, has come wanting to make deal.
 
Nevertheless, there's still no concrete information on whether the owners and players have made real progress. Yet, the vibe isn't bad.
 
That's how I roll! Jersey style FAMS!


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Udonis Haslem: "I was very encouraged. ... You can see that everybody really wants to make a deal."


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sam amick......
Meeting adjourned here in NYC after almost five hours. NBPA to talk first. Some sense of encouragement being promoted. #NBA #fb


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Billy Hunter shaking hands w/media everywhere...he's in a good mood #nbalockout



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