The Official S2 NBA Lockout Thread! (1 Viewer)

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

But since the players are welcome to play anywhere they want in the world, how is it the owners fault for those specific rules in that specific league? "If you don't like it, we are not stopping you from playing elsewhere."
 
But since the players are welcome to play anywhere they want in the world, how is it the owners fault for those specific rules in that specific league? "If you don't like it, we are not stopping you from playing elsewhere."

That will absolutely be an argument that the NBA should/will make and one that the courts will have to decide on.

I will say that most companies can't engage in monopolistic practices (price-fixing, etc.) in the US market just because I can drive to Canada or Mexico and buy their products there. (Although an argument could be made that that's what pharma companies do.)

Ed O.
 
No. However, those players can all sign contracts with NBA teams starting a couple of hours ago. In theory, the owners can sign anyplayers they want right now, and players have the right to sign on their own behalf, since there is no union

That is NOT going to happen. Because if it could, everybody would sign with the Knicks or the Lakers. Now THAT I'd like to see, because then we'd have all-out war amongst the owners.
 
I really wish more Blazers players would sign overseas. Nolan Smith at LEAST could get a good job in the Spanish league - I'm sure Kyle Singler would put in a good word. It's fun watching Batum and Freeland, but I want more!
 
The problem is salaries. Nic is getting paid between 18-25k / month. Obviously much better than nothing, but that amounts to essentially half the existing NBA minimum. And that's without insurance. But I don't think he cares much about the money as he does about playing ball and staying in his home country.

But if his salary is an indication of what other players of his caliber could get in Europe (ACB teams could obviously pay a bit more), I don't see many American players jumping over right now.
 
My guess is that this won't be solved with only one season lost.

I do have a couple of questions for anyone.

Has this desertification ever happened in the other sport leagues?

If Ed is right about the legal issues, won't the NBA/courts use existing leagues (NFL, NHL etc.) as precedent regarding Anti-Trust law?

gatorpops
 
Last edited:
My guess is that this won't be solved with only one season lost.

I do have a couple of questions for anyone.

Has this desertification ever happened in the other sport leagues?

If Ed is right about the legal issues, won't the NBA/courts use existing leagues (NFL, NHL etc.) as precedent regarding Anti-Trust law?

gatorpops

The NFL players decertified. An appellate court overruled an intial ruling in favor of the players. Once that happened, the NFL players and owners decided to do a deal. The big difference is that the NFL is a cash-cow, while many NBA owners operate at a loss, which even Billy Hunter admits.
 
The amazing thing is, these idiots are going to lose more money this year then they'd gain if they signed their contract as they want it.

Fucking morons.
 
Ron Artest said:
I would really want to take a fan to the twilight premiere with me. But I'm afraid yal don't want to go

:lol:

DeronWilliams said:
Goodnight.... Sad day for our everyone affiliated with the NBA, NBPA and our Fans... Hope we can save the season somehow

:( :( :(
 
The NFL players decertified. An appellate court overruled an intial ruling in favor of the players. Once that happened, the NFL players and owners decided to do a deal.

Yep. There's just not much precedent because no pro sports leagues have really ever taken the issue to a conclusion.

The big difference is that the NFL is a cash-cow, while many NBA owners operate at a loss, which even Billy Hunter admits.

Legally, I'm not sure that's a difference, but you're right that owners have more incentive in the NBA to go the distance to change the system.

Ed O.
 
Has anyone really been able to pin down what the players are expecting to happen because of this?

Does this even lead to something? Is there even a plan?
 
TheRealTWill Terrence Williams
Someone tell billy hunter we should of done this shit in July wtf

TheRealTWill Terrence Williams
It's just a real SAD day in BASKETBALL for FANS,VALET WORKERS,RESTAURANTS,CONCESSIONS, everything can't do nothing but put my head down

Terrence Williams seems to get it

The NBAPA says they're fighting for the average NBA player in this deal.

I bet if you asked the average NBA player they would take the deal that was presented.

The players aren't united at all, imo.
 
Has anyone really been able to pin down what the players are expecting to happen because of this?

Does this even lead to something? Is there even a plan?

I doubt that they expect it to make it to court, because if they sue the NBA, I really doubt they'd get the contracts that they have now, or even comparable working conditions. My guess is they're banking on the simple threat being enough to scare the owners into giving them everything they want.

Not realizing that they'll probably end up looking like the villain in this story AND do more PR damage than they realize.
 
Players griped all summer about having no leverage and getting taken advantage of. They just gave themselves a little leverage by tying this thing up in court for potentially a long time without either side knowing how the supreme court will rule on this (although one could guess with Roberts at the helm).

I'm hoping for a restructure, but this could simply be an aggressive negotiation move in this continous tit for tat negotiations. Wouldn't be surprised if they were back at the negotiation table this year.
 
I doubt that they expect it to make it to court, because if they sue the NBA, I really doubt they'd get the contracts that they have now, or even comparable working conditions. My guess is they're banking on the simple threat being enough to scare the owners into giving them everything they want.

Not realizing that they'll probably end up looking like the villain in this story AND do more PR damage than they realize.

The owners can't. control themselves, otherwise the wouldn't need a lot of the CBA rules. Like contracts for waived players counting against the cap...

The players are a scarce commodity, and the elite players obviously more so. Supply and demand says they'll be even better paid than now.

A guy like Pippen in his prime could have renegotiated his contract and demanded whatever working conditions.

I do think the league is a monopoly and agree with Ed that many facets of the league would be downright illegal if not for collective bargaining.

The ability to play overseas instead does not minimize the monopolistic nature of the league. Our courts only preside over our country, the rest of the world isn't relevant. The league restricts fair trade here in the USA.
 
I do think the league is a monopoly and agree with Ed that many facets of the league would be downright illegal if not for collective bargaining.

The ability to play overseas instead does not minimize the monopolistic nature of the league. Our courts only preside over our country, the rest of the world isn't relevant. The league restricts fair trade here in the USA.

Does it, though? It could also be argued that the players unionizing also restricts free trade. Decertification is a tactic, and unfortunately for the players, there are other professional leagues. Precedent says the players just made a huge blunder, and almost all of the current players will never make up their losses from this year. In 1990, I'd be on the players' side, In 2011, with the deal the NBA players just passed on, it's a no-brainer for me to see that the owners are being more than fair in this economy.
 
LOL the players are fucked, Billy Hunter is an idiot. They basically jumped into this blind.

Players' New Lawyer Not Committed To Litigation, Unsure Legal Action Required

David Boies, the attorney tapped to be one of the chief litigators on behalf of the players in what Billy Hunter said Monday could be imminent antitrust actions against the NBA, seemed unsure of the particulars of the players' potential case against owners, or even whether any lawsuits would ever be filed.

Boies also revealed that he had only been involved in the matter for "a few hours."

"As you can see, I have not been involved in this long enough to have formed a view of what, if anything, is appropriate to do from a legal standpoint," Boies said.

"[W]e're going to talk about what the right approach is," Boies said. "Maybe it's filing a lawsuit. Maybe it's not filing a lawsuit. We've got to figure out what the lawsuit would say if there is going to be a lawsuit. There's a lot that has to be worked out."

"And I think what the players are focusing on right now is what is the fastest way to get this resolved," Boies said. This too would appear to be inconsistent with Hunter's statements on Monday, which indicated a drawn-out legal process in which the season would very likely be sacrificed.

It is unclear what the substantive purpose of Monday's disclaimer of interest from the union would be if legal action against the owners is not commenced.



Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...on_Unsure_Legal_Action_Required#ixzz1dkF98jAg
 
It's like the people who are representing the players (and maybe not necessarily the players themselves) are like the old school politicians who don't actually realize they're being recorded or that people know as much about stuff as they do.

Does that make sense?

In other words, they're the out of touch idiots who think because this tactic worked in the 1980's and early 90's, it'll work now! After all, it's how "I did it!"
 
"As you can see, I have not been involved in this long enough to have formed a view of what, if anything, is appropriate to do from a legal standpoint," Boies said.

"[W]e're going to talk about what the right approach is," Boies said. "Maybe it's filing a lawsuit. Maybe it's not filing a lawsuit. We've got to figure out what the lawsuit would say if there is going to be a lawsuit. There's a lot that has to be worked out."

"And I think what the players are focusing on right now is what is the fastest way to get this resolved," Boies said. This too would appear to be inconsistent with Hunter's statements on Monday, which indicated a drawn-out legal process in which the season would very likely be sacrificed.

It was obvious from the beginning of the Boies announcement by Hunter (as I posted, btw) that Boies would be arguing against the case he made just a few months ago while representing the NFL owners.

What a bunch of fools. If some lowly internet poster can see the irony of Boies working for the NBA players, I have to wonder what the hell Derek Fisher and Billy Hunter are doing in these negotiations.
 
It's like the people who are representing the players (and maybe not necessarily the players themselves) are like the old school politicians who don't actually realize they're being recorded or that people know as much about stuff as they do.

Does that make sense?

In other words, they're the out of touch idiots who think because this tactic worked in the 1980's and early 90's, it'll work now! After all, it's how "I did it!"

It's even more dumb that that, isn't it.

Hey, the NFL won their case agains the players, and David Boies was the attorney who laid out their case. Let's hire him to win our case for us!!

Clown Town
 
TO: ALL PLAYERS
FROM: G. WILLIAM HUNTER, DEREK FISHER AND THE NBPA EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE
DATE: November 14, 2011
RE: NBPA DISCLAIMER
Today, by unanimous vote of the executive committee and player representatives, the National Basketball Players Association disclaimed its status as your collective bargaining representative. As a result, we will now function as a trade association to assist and support NBA players, but we will no longer engage in collective bargaining with the NBA owners. The Players Association will instead dedicate itself to supporting individual NBA players in the assertion of your non-labor rights to be free of any illegal restrictions on competition for your services.
For two and a half years and through more than 50 collective bargaining sessions, we sat at the table and attempted to negotiate a fair labor agreement with the owners. Last week, with the issuance of yet another ultimatum - a take it or leave it final offer of a long-term agreement with unacceptable terms - Commissioner Stern and the owners left us with no other option. It has become clear to us that we have exhausted our rights under the labor laws, and continuing in that forum would not be in the best interests of the players.
With no labor union in place, it is our sincere hope that the NBA will immediately end its now illegal boycott and finally open the 2011-12 season. Individual teams are free to negotiate with free agents for your services. If the owners choose to continue their present course of action, it is our view that they subject themselves to significant antitrust liability.
Today's decision was not made lightly and holds enormous consequences, including among other things, the following:
• As mentioned, we cannot engage in collective bargaining with the owners.
• We can no longer assert any labor law rights on behalf of players, and we will be withdrawing our unfair labor practice charge before the National Labor Relations Board.
• We can no longer prosecute individual grievances on behalf of players. We will communicate in the future regarding the status of any pending grievances or appeals.
• We can no longer regulate agents. Our status in regulating agents derives from our authority under the National Labor Relations Act as the players' bargaining representative. With that status ended, likewise our agent regulation program is terminated.
The NBPA will always be here to assist individual players in asserting your rights outside of the labor laws and to improve business conditions of all professional basketball players in the NBA. So, for example, among other things, we will seek to:
• Engage in group licensing activities;
• Create opportunities for players to enhance off-court income;
• Enable and encourage players to engage in charitable and civic activities to benefit both your fellow citizens and your communities;
• Serve as a clearinghouse for information related to your services as NBA players; and
• Otherwise do all we can to promote, protect, and enhance your careers as professional basketball players.
We will continue to correspond with you on business matters on a regular basis, and our New York headquarters will remain open. Please feel free to contact Billy or the NBPA legal staff with any questions or concerns you may have. We urge you very strongly as a legal matter to please not make any public or private comments on these matters. You may refer any questions to the NBPA legal staff.
As always, thank you for your support.


Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/nba/11/14/nbpa.letter/index.html#ixzz1dkrrQxXt
 
I fear for the players winning in the courts. The NBA would be dead to me at that point. The last thing we need is the inmates running the asylum. I realize that it very unlikely to happen, but you never know. Remember, Brady vs the NFL, Brady won, but it was overturned in appeals court, and then the fake non union came to an agreement with the NFL shortly after that.
 
Economists tell CBS Miami that South Florida may suffer $200 million in losses if there is no pro basketball this year. Portland says no Blazers games translates to a $59 million hit, Oklahoma City claims it will lose $60 million if Kevin Durant doesn't play, and Tony Parker's Spurs are worth an astonishing $90 million to the businesses of San Antonio.

Though Miami will feel it the worst, some feel the whole reason for the lockout itself is the Heat's ability to add James and Chris Bosh last year during free agency. Small market owners want to make sure that never happens again.


Hey Miami . . . that is called Karma.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top