Politics The Postal Service, Voting, and Covid

[Lanny]

You do realize the USPS receives ZERO tax dollars, right? (https://facts.usps.com/top-facts/)

They are 100% self funded. So where exactly are they to receive this other funding?

Because you see, they already receive it from the sale of stamps. You know, other means.

You also realize that a big reason why the USPS loses money is because they were forced to pre-fund their retirement plans for 75 years, right? A plan that was forced on them by a Republican lead congress, and signed by a Republican President.

Also, having a Republican President sabotage their business (Trump), in a glorified ponzi scheme?

Because I'm starting to think you don't know any of these facts, and just repeat misinformation about it because you think it make you sound fiscally smart and also gives you another opportunity to rationalize your love for all things Donald Trump.

Try to educate yourself on stuff. Please.

https://www.nonprofitmailers.org/four-usps-myths/

Another requirement of the Post Office that seems to be little known is that the Post Office must give Veteran job applicants five points on their test scores and if the Veteran is 100% disabled they must give that applicant rather than the five points, but now 10 points additional to their test scores. Time earned working for the government in other areas also counts toward their time at the Post Office. For example, if I applied for a job at the Post Office I would get ten additional points on my test score and already have two years of seniority before starting work.
I thought the Post Office got some additional funding from the government so that people in remote places in Alaska could get their mail at the same price as people mailing letter across town.

Edit:
Just looked it up and you are 100% correct, but you already know that, you bastard.
https://facts.usps.com/top-facts/

 

[julius]

Another requirement of the Post Office that seems to be little known is that the Post Office must give Veteran job applicants five points on their test scores and if the Veteran is 100% disabled they must give that applicant rather than the five points, but now 10 points additional to their test scores. Time earned working for the government in other areas also counts toward their time at the Post Office. For example, if I applied for a job at the Post Office I would get ten additional points on my test score and already have two years of seniority before starting work.
I thought the Post Office got some additional funding from the government so that people in remote places in Alaska could get their mail at the same price as people mailing letter across town.

Edit:
Just looked it up and you are 100% correct, but you already know that, you bastard.
https://facts.usps.com/top-facts/

Magnificent bastard, you mean.

Here's why I think complaining about the stimulus bill having $ for the USPS is short sighted and devoid of facts.

The USPS is 100% self funded. They buy what they need with their own money.

The government decided they needed to fund their retirement 75 years in advance. While this isn't terribly uncommon, they are required to also pay the medical retirements 75 years in advance, and it is not common for a company to have that requirement. And no other company has to go to congress to change that.

So the government, which doesn't pay for USPS, decided they get to control the USPS. They've hired someone who (has ties to other delivery services that aren't as efficient or cost effective as the USPS) has actively made it harder for the USPS to do it's job, and then pulls the "see? you can't do your job, let's privatize this".

Here's also the thing ABM seems to be missing...even if the USPS could come up with the "means to fund" themselves, the current government would still be cutting them off at the pass. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, the guy from Facebook and Jeff Besos could all volunteer to fund 100% of the USPS budget, and since the Post Master General is in charge of what happens, he could still be like "nope, remove sorters, close hours, and increase the costs".

So in essence, they want to control the USPS while claiming they don't want to be in charge of it. They're poisoning the well, and then saying "see? You're getting sick. Quit drinking the water, and instead drink my 3x as expensive to buy water!"

The cost of mail delivery, and the guarantee of it, would change. And not necessarily for the better.

But doesn't it bother him that this is clearly a money grabbing scam?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Look at it another way. Which would tempt you more, a bundle of $100 dollar bills lying on a busy street or slipping an extra vote in for your man? In the first case the temptation is obvious. In the second case I see no temptation whatsoever. of course, that's just the common sense approach and there may be other approaches where common sense doesn't apply. I think it's more appropriate to let our far Right friends think of other approaches that defy common sense.

I kinda think the issue with mail-in voting is less the idea of voter fraud but more the idea that on election night we wont have any idea who actually won. It's going to be a crazy election month or so. I think voter fraud might happen. I think it's fair to say since Biden and Trump have already said the other one will cheat, they'll both be cheating or at least groups trying to get them elected will be cheating.
I am not against mail-in voting, though like I said earlier if there was a secure way to do electronic/online voting I'd like that better.
Everything about this election is shaping up to be a nightmare.

 

[ABM]

Magnificent bastard, you mean.

Here's why I think complaining about the stimulus bill having $ for the USPS is short sighted and devoid of facts.

The USPS is 100% self funded. They buy what they need with their own money.

The government decided they needed to fund their retirement 75 years in advance. While this isn't terribly uncommon, they are required to also pay the medical retirements 75 years in advance, and it is not common for a company to have that requirement. And no other company has to go to congress to change that.

So the government, which doesn't pay for USPS, decided they get to control the USPS. They've hired someone who (has ties to other delivery services that aren't as efficient or cost effective as the USPS) has actively made it harder for the USPS to do it's job, and then pulls the "see? you can't do your job, let's privatize this".

Here's also the thing ABM seems to be missing...even if the USPS could come up with the "means to fund" themselves, the current government would still be cutting them off at the pass. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, the guy from Facebook and Jeff Besos could all volunteer to fund 100% of the USPS budget, and since the Post Master General is in charge of what happens, he could still be like "nope, remove sorters, close hours, and increase the costs".

So in essence, they want to control the USPS while claiming they don't want to be in charge of it. They're poisoning the well, and then saying "see? You're getting sick. Quit drinking the water, and instead drink my 3x as expensive to buy water!"

The cost of mail delivery, and the guarantee of it, would change. And not necessarily for the better.

But doesn't it bother him that this is clearly a money grabbing scam?

While you may be well and good correct on these notions, there's really a (bottom-line) reason the dems want the monies in there. You know it, and I know it and it's purely political. Otherwise, they'd be hammering this down our throats 3 years ago....or more. Right?

BTW, not to nit-pick your grammar, but it's "its" not "it's" in your usage above. I only say this because I believe you were messing with someone else's (@EL PRESIDENTE?) grammar awhile back. All in fun, mind you. All in fun.

 

[CupWizier]

While you may be well and good correct on these notions, there's really a (bottom-line) reason the dems want the monies in there. You know it, and I know it and it's purely political. Otherwise, they'd be hammering this down our throats 3 years ago....or more. Right?

BTW, not to nit-pick your grammar, but it's "its" not "it's" in your usage above. I only say this because I believe you were messing with someone else's (@EL PRESIDENTE?) grammar awhile back. All in fun, mind you. All in fun.

Uh, 3 years ago we didn't have a pandemic that has already taken almost 170,000 lives in the USA. This is NOT normal times and it's ridiculous to put people in harms way when we have a perfectly adequate system to do mail in voting with the proper support. The only politicizing is being done by trump by continually crying about corruption in elections where he is the one that is corrupting the election. Many states have been using mail in voting with great success but trump only cares about his reelection, not the health and safety of the people and you know that, but refuse to acknowledge because of your love for a guy that wants to be a dictator.

 

[CupWizier]

I kinda think the issue with mail-in voting is less the idea of voter fraud but more the idea that on election night we wont have any idea who actually won. It's going to be a crazy election month or so. I think voter fraud might happen. I think it's fair to say since Biden and Trump have already said the other one will cheat, they'll both be cheating or at least groups trying to get them elected will be cheating.
I am not against mail-in voting, though like I said earlier if there was a secure way to do electronic/online voting I'd like that better.
Everything about this election is shaping up to be a nightmare.

Why is it so necessary to have instant results? Are instant results more important than the lives of people? We saw the explosion of cases when states started reopening and not following the guidelines as the handling of the pandemic in the USA has been atrocious. We have history of trump cheating. We have no history or evidence of Biden ever cheating so putting them in the same category is unfair.

 

[riverman]

Building a wall around the vote and putting minority voters in cages will not help Trump's losing cause...if you can't see he's completely polarized the GOP then you just want a deeper political division in power....it's time for the incompetence to stop...a vote for Trump is a vote for chaos and corruption..period. At this point anyone trying to prop up a GOP led government is embarrassing themself.....I find comfort in knowing it's almost over....Trump will be crushed in Nov

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

While you may be well and good correct on these notions, there's really a (bottom-line) reason the dems want the monies in there. You know it, and I know it and it's purely political. Otherwise, they'd be hammering this down our throats 3 years ago....or more. Right?

BTW, not to nit-pick your grammar, but it's "its" not "it's" in your usage above. I only say this because I believe you were messing with someone else's (@EL PRESIDENTE?) grammar awhile back. All in fun, mind you. All in fun.

The road trip was fun while it lasted but I’m back!

 

[ABM]

View attachment 32959
The road trip was fun while it lasted but I’m back!

You're a decent guy, but don't fall of your left ledge.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Why is it so necessary to have instant results? Are instant results more important than the lives of people? We saw the explosion of cases when states started reopening and not following the guidelines as the handling of the pandemic in the USA has been atrocious. We have history of trump cheating. We have no history or evidence of Biden ever cheating so putting them in the same category is unfair.

I mean... History shows that prolonged election results isn't a good thing, both in the US and most other places. The country is on the edge of chaos anyways. If you're one of those who believe that it's imperative to get Trump out, you should not want it to be dragged out, which increases the likelihood of letting it go to the house of representatives, because every contested state is going to turn into a legal battle.

 

[crandc]

I mean... History shows that prolonged election results isn't a good thing, both in the US and most other places. The country is on the edge of chaos anyways. If you're one of those who believe that it's imperative to get Trump out, you should not want it to be dragged out, which increases the likelihood of letting it go to the house of representatives, because every contested state is going to turn into a legal battle.

Prolonged for a week? No problem. Less problem than people being denied right to vote or having to choose between voting and living. We're not talking about a 6 month delay whatever the god emperor spews on Twitter.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Prolonged for a week? No problem. Less problem than people being denied right to vote or having to choose between voting and living. We're not talking about a 6 month delay whatever the god emperor spews on Twitter.

Really how long was it prolonged by 'hanging chads' in 2000? How did that work out for everyone... Sure it'll be much better this time around...

 

[riverman]

You're a decent guy, but don't fall of your left ledge.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

View attachment 32962

It's Steve Martin's 75th birthday today.

Hopefully people didn't mail him birthday cards.

 

[CupWizier]

I mean... History shows that prolonged election results isn't a good thing, both in the US and most other places. The country is on the edge of chaos anyways. If you're one of those who believe that it's imperative to get Trump out, you should not want it to be dragged out, which increases the likelihood of letting it go to the house of representatives, because every contested state is going to turn into a legal battle.

It's trump who is mucking it up by tossing out this bullshit conspiracy about how easy it is to rig the election with mail in voting. We have plenty of proof that mail in voting has been successful and rather than trying to sabotage the election this idiot should be doing everything possible to make the election as safe as possible. I don't see it being dragged out that long as that's just trump trying to create a controversy and even then, here's an article you should read. trump is essentially gone in January if no election results are done by the allotted date.

Andrew Moran, Professor of Politics and International Relations at London Metropolitan University told Express.co.uk: “On election day there are a variety of elections taking place – at the presidential, congressional, and state level.

“The question most people are asking is can the president cancel the presidential election. The short answer is no.

“Federal law makes it quite clear that the election should be held on the first Tuesday after the 1st Monday in November.

“This can only be changed through legislation that would have to be passed by Congress, signed by the president, and would then, most likely, be challenged in the courts.”

Donald Trump cannot cancel or postpone the November 3 general election by executive order, under the parameters of a national emergency or disaster declaration, or even if he declared martial law.

In an extreme scenario where the electoral college does not vote, Mr Trump’s term would still expire at midday on January 20, 2021.

This means control of the presidency would then go down the line of succession.

Unless Mr Trump is re-elected, there will be a new head of state next year.

 

[CupWizier]

Really how long was it prolonged by 'hanging chads' in 2000? How did that work out for everyone... Sure it'll be much better this time around...

and that election was completed and we did get results. Are you for or against mail in ballots (at least for this year due to the covid virus)? and why?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

and that election was completed and we did get results. Are you for or against mail in ballots (at least for this year due to the covid virus)? and why?

You mean the supreme court had to get involved, and it was maybe the single most divisive event in US Politics over the last 40ish years (there are maybe a handful of others but it's up there). Yes, that.
I think where we're at now is in large part because of that.
I already said how I felt about mail-in votes. I'm ok with them in general, I'm not sure what to make of the voter-fraud through mail-in voting stuff because even researching it this morning for a while before work, it seems to be completely partisan as to if it's an issue or not. Just the news, fox, Breitbart, and a few other right-leaning sites tend to think it's an issue, and CNN, Vox, Axios, etc all seem to say it's not and it's just a big lie. Even many of the "fact-checking" sites are fairly partisan at this point...
I would prefer an electronic/online voting system.

 

[CupWizier]

You mean the supreme court had to get involved, and it was maybe the single most divisive event in US Politics over the last 40ish years (there are maybe a handful of others but it's up there). Yes, that.
I think where we're at now is in large part because of that.
I already said how I felt about mail-in votes. I'm ok with them in general, I'm not sure what to make of the voter-fraud through mail-in voting stuff because even researching it this morning for a while before work, it seems to be completely partisan as to if it's an issue or not. Just the news, fox, Breitbart, and a few other right-leaning sites tend to think it's an issue, and CNN, Vox, Axios, etc all seem to say it's not and it's just a big lie. Even many of the "fact-checking" sites are fairly partisan at this point...
I would prefer an electronic/online voting system.

With Russian hacking capabilities it seems that would be more susceptible to hacking and voter fraud. trump (and the republicans) have been much more active in trying to suppres voting as they know it would benefit trump better, espially when much of it is targeted in minority communities. Notice how you seldom hear trump or republicans promote all to get out and vote where as you often hear the democrats push for more voters.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

With Russian hacking capabilities it seems that would be more susceptible to hacking and voter fraud. trump (and the republicans) have been much more active in trying to suppres voting as they know it would benefit trump better, espially when much of it is targeted in minority communities. Notice how you seldom hear trump or republicans promote all to get out and vote where as you often hear the democrats push for more voters.

Well, I wasn't advocating pushing out an open-source app under MIT's license and putting it on a public server and publishing the IP/MAC Address on the front page of every major website with a tutorial on how to vote 100 times...
You'll never get a system that is perfectly hack-free or secure, but to the best of their ability, I'd prefer an electronic system to the mail-in. Also not saying they have a viable way forward with that for this election.

 

[CupWizier]

Well, I wasn't advocating pushing out an open-source app under MIT's license and putting it on a public server and publishing the IP/MAC Address on the front page of every major website with a tutorial on how to vote 100 times...
You'll never get a system that is perfectly hack-free or secure, but to the best of their ability, I'd prefer an electronic system to the mail-in. Also not saying they have a viable way forward with that for this election.

Not sure the intent of the first part of your post, but Russia has been known to have some of the best hackers in the world and you think trumo would stop any meddling by Russia? He certainly hasn't in over 3 1/2 years. We are also only talking about this upcoming election for right now. I certainly wouldn't want to wait in line for several hours especially in high risk states.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Not sure the intent of the first part of your post, but Russia has been known to have some of the best hackers in the world and you think trumo would stop any meddling by Russia? He certainly hasn't in over 3 1/2 years. We are also only talking about this upcoming election for right now. I certainly wouldn't want to wait in line for several hours especially in high risk states.

The first part of that response is basically how to make a completely insecure system 101.
k... Well Russia, China, the US, Isreal, UK, Turkey, Romania, and probably a huge number of other countries have a lot of 'hackers', and interfere with elections, and are constantly at work sowing discontent with other countries and heck probably inside their own countries too.
People need to understand this the "Russia hacking" stuff is exaggerated.
Over 40% of cyber attacks come from China, Russia accounts for just over 4%, and yes Russia has been able to get into really secure systems, but China is the bigger concern in that aspect. I wouldn't pretend to know one way or another what government security has done or not done to try to make things more secure, it's not like they're going to publish it for you and for the hackers they're fighting against.
Went out and found a link for that just as evidence.
https://interestingengineering.com/7-countries-having-the-majority-of-hackers

In terms of standing in line to vote, I don't want to do that with or without COVID.

 

[crandc]

Really how long was it prolonged by 'hanging chads' in 2000? How did that work out for everyone... Sure it'll be much better this time around...

And your solution is slow down the mail? Don't count ballots? Make Trump president for life?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

And your solution is slow down the mail? Don't count ballots? Make Trump president for life?

Strawmen are neat.
No, I said my preference was secure (or as best as possible) online/electronic voting. I even said 2fa / ssn, maybe some sort of app they do have a IRS app and other apps that are supposedly pretty secure.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

And your solution is slow down the mail? Don't count ballots? Make Trump president for life?

The easiest way to stop voting fraud is to prevent everyone from voting.

 

[crandc]

Strawmen are neat.
No, I said my preference was secure (or as best as possible) online/electronic voting. I even said 2fa / ssn, maybe some sort of app they do have a IRS app and other apps that are supposedly pretty secure.

Not everyone has internet. We all have post office. Even if it's a good option it would not be available this fall

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Strawmen are neat.
No, I said my preference was secure (or as best as possible) online/electronic voting. I even said 2fa / ssn, maybe some sort of app they do have a IRS app and other apps that are supposedly pretty secure.

I would love to see a comparison of people who cheat on their taxes vs people who cheat when voting.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Not everyone has internet. We all have post office. Even if it's a good option it would not be available this fall

6% of the population doesn't have access broadband internet. There are public wifi options though. So the lack of internet service isn't really that much different for people in rural areas who have to drive miles to get to a post office.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

6% of the population doesn't have broadband internet. There are public wifi options though. So the lack of internet service isn't really that much different for people in rural areas who have to drive miles to get to a post office.

"Grampa you need to go to the app store and download the voting app for your smartphone."

"Nap store?"

"No grampa, app store."

"Okay but what's a smartbone?"

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]