The Raptors should be an example to us of how to build a better team

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hoopsjock said:
The problem is he's 30 years old, often injured, and just signed a huge extension last summer. If Cleveland wasn't stupid and offered that to him he probably would've been a target last season.
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And hes not all that good when he does play.
 
So, if we're talking about team-building, as far as I'm concerned forget about a deal for a Kawhi Leonard-type player. Somebody find me a Draymond Green to add to the Blazers' roster next season. Maybe one with a little less a-hole in his character, but one that can distribute the ball, rebound, shoot from distance, post up...yeah, get me that guy.
 
e_blazer said:
So, if we're talking about team-building, as far as I'm concerned forget about a deal for a Kawhi Leonard-type player. Somebody find me a Draymond Green to add to the Blazers' roster next season. Maybe one with a little less a-hole in his character, but one that can distribute the ball, rebound, shoot from distance, post up...yeah, get me that guy.
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Zach Collins will be looking deep inside this summer to find him.
 
HailBlazers said:
Zach Collins will be looking deep inside this summer to find him.
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Zach's going to have to really search within himself to see if he can grab Green's play-making ability by the ears and pull it out. I think that ability in Green is what allows Curry to play off the ball so much and keeps teams from doing Lillard-type doubles on him all game.
 
hoopsjock said:
The problem is he's 30 years old, often injured, and just signed a huge extension last summer. If Cleveland wasn't stupid and offered that to him he probably would've been a target last season.
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Blake Griffin is 30 and often injured with a huge contact. Neil will go after one of these two players. You have to take the gamble at moving the needle at some point.
 
BigGameDamian said:
Blake Griffin is 30 and often injured with a huge contact. Neil will go after one of these two players. You have to take the gamble at moving the needle at some point.
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The difference is when Griffin is healthy, he's still an All-NBA level player. Kevin Love won't ever sniff the All-NBA teams again in his career.
 
I have not played lots of basket ball. But I'm really curious about this.
How hard would it be for a player like Zach or Moe to add passing skills to their abilities in a summer?
3 hour work per week for 3 months with a coach? Is it like shooting, where on can shoot 500 shots per week/month?
 
joeBlazers said:
I have not played lots of basket ball. But I'm really curious about this.
How hard would it be for a player like Zach or Moe to add passing skills to their abilities in a summer?
3 hour work per week for 3 months with a coach? Is it like shooting, where on can shoot 500 shots per week/month?
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I'd say players can add things, like being a better passer or whatever, but you can always tell the guys who are naturally talented at something vs the mechanical guys. I'll say it like this. Lebron was always kind of a bad shooter, especially 15-18 feet and out, but he's worked on it a lot, to where he's become a very adequate shooter, but when you watch him you can tell it's very mechanical, and not really a natural motion for him. I think the only major downside to that is, when his mechanics break or he can't step into a shot like he normally would, you can see it throws him off completely. Whereas a guy who is a natural passer and that motion comes easily, they can have part of their mechanic's broken off and have the natural control to still be competent.

Keeping the passing example, Lebron's naturally a great passer and has great court vision, even if the normal mechanical two hand pass, or whatever is taken away he's so natural at it, he can find ways to get the ball to the right spot. They can all definitely work at it and get better at it, Zach's already a pretty good passer, with work he could be a great passer.
 
joeBlazers said:
I have not played lots of basket ball. But I'm really curious about this.
How hard would it be for a player like Zach or Moe to add passing skills to their abilities in a summer?
3 hour work per week for 3 months with a coach? Is it like shooting, where on can shoot 500 shots per week/month?
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I don't think there is a way to just become a good passer. Maybe if you changed your mind set a little bit but overall you either have the skill or you don't. Now the question is do certain players have that ability in them and they just aren't being used correctly or are they just not that good of passers. Both Plumlee and Nurk showed huge jumps in their assist numbers when they came over here but I don't think it's because they all of a sudden became better passers it's more that they were trusted to pass out of the top of the key more in the Blazers' system.

To be a good passer you need 3 things: vision, anticipation, and a quick response time. None of those are really teachable. This is not only just seeing a guy open or cutting to the basket but also knowing where your guys are when you're not looking directly at them. Understanding the game to where if you see a defender out of position and processing immediately who he's supposed to be guarding and where you can find that guy. You have to play with guys that are in sync with you too. I can be the best passer ever but if no one moves/cuts/slashes then it doesn't matter. In the NFL you hear the phrase "pass a guy open" a lot. A good passer can lead a guy to a spot where he gets a good shot.
 
I'm not sure I agree with you guys about the inability to drastically add additional skills. We have seen guys work on the 3 point shots, midrange game, back to the basket skills, ... etc. A typical example was Hakeem Olajuwon. When he came to the league, he was a shot blocker. Later in his career he became a low post assassin. I doubt a guy like Siakam was so talented when coming out of college. But now, I can see him do things Aminu/Moe can only dream of. So, I believe guys can add these skills. His coach even recognized, he had been a gym rat.
My point is ... if Zach Collins wants to be our Draymond, ... he needs to become a gym rat and start putting in the work.
 
hoopsjock said:
I don't think there is a way to just become a good passer. Maybe if you changed your mind set a little bit but overall you either have the skill or you don't. Now the question is do certain players have that ability in them and they just aren't being used correctly or are they just not that good of passers. Both Plumlee and Nurk showed huge jumps in their assist numbers when they came over here but I don't think it's because they all of a sudden became better passers it's more that they were trusted to pass out of the top of the key more in the Blazers' system.

To be a good passer you need 3 things: vision, anticipation, and a quick response time. None of those are really teachable. This is not only just seeing a guy open or cutting to the basket but also knowing where your guys are when you're not looking directly at them. Understanding the game to where if you see a defender out of position and processing immediately who he's supposed to be guarding and where you can find that guy. You have to play with guys that are in sync with you too. I can be the best passer ever but if no one moves/cuts/slashes then it doesn't matter. In the NFL you hear the phrase "pass a guy open" a lot. A good passer can lead a guy to a spot where he gets a good shot.
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Leading guys and knowing where they want the ball is also chemistry, and playing together a lot. I think Nurk’s passing has gotten better here because he’s gotten accustomed to playing with these guys
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Leading guys and knowing where they want the ball is also chemistry, and playing together a lot. I think Nurk’s passing has gotten better here because he’s gotten accustomed to playing with these guys
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True, but that doesn't explain the "Nurk Fever" stretch where he literally just got thrown out there without much practice time.
 
hoopsjock said:
True, but that doesn't explain the "Nurk Fever" stretch where he literally just got thrown out there without much practice time.
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Im having a real hard time remembering but I remember him being used mostly as a roller in the PNR, and I remember some passing but not nearly as much as this years Nurk who I actually think was the teams 2nd best passer.
 
joeBlazers said:
I'm not sure I agree with you guys about the inability to drastically add additional skills. We have seen guys work on the 3 point shots, midrange game, back to the basket skills, ... etc. A typical example was Hakeem Olajuwon. When he came to the league, he was a shot blocker. Later in his career he became a low post assassin. I doubt a guy like Siakam was so talented when coming out of college. But now, I can see him do things Aminu/Moe can only dream of. So, I believe guys can add these skills. His coach even recognized, he had been a gym rat.
My point is ... if Zach Collins wants to be our Draymond, ... he needs to become a gym rat and start putting in the work.
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You listed things that are all improvable though. Shooting, range, post moves, ball-handling, floaters, step backs, and pull ups off the dribble are all things that a player can improve on immensely if they put in the work. You asked specifically about passing which I don't think is in the same category as those things.
 
joeBlazers said:
I'm not sure I agree with you guys about the inability to drastically add additional skills. We have seen guys work on the 3 point shots, midrange game, back to the basket skills, ... etc. A typical example was Hakeem Olajuwon. When he came to the league, he was a shot blocker. Later in his career he became a low post assassin. I doubt a guy like Siakam was so talented when coming out of college. But now, I can see him do things Aminu/Moe can only dream of. So, I believe guys can add these skills. His coach even recognized, he had been a gym rat.
My point is ... if Zach Collins wants to be our Draymond, ... he needs to become a gym rat and start putting in the work.
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You see it a lot with shooting, and sometimes ball handling, but I dont think you see it as much with passing.
 
Siakam had 5 assists the other night and 5 assists the first game. Ok, he played 40 minutes in each of the games ...Natural passer? I doubt it.
Now, if you don't believe Zach can be the guy. Is there a guy out there we can trade for, who can play the role?
My frustration with Stotts is that, Dame came out of college a better shooter than passer. So, we can run him off screens ... CJ can handle the ball. It doesn't have to be a BIG.
 
joeBlazers said:
Siakam had 5 assists the other night and 5 assists the first game. Ok, he played 40 minutes in each of the games ...Natural passer? I doubt it.
Now, if you don't believe Zach can be the guy. Is there a guy out there we can trade for, who can play the role?
My frustration with Stotts is that, Dame came out of college a better shooter than passer. So, we can run him off screens ... CJ can handle the ball. It doesn't have to be a BIG.
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That's very true. They could address the issue by bringing in a guy who can actually come off the bench and play PG. Curry is (was) a SG and Turner wasn't a solution in the eyes of anybody but Olshey.
 
joeBlazers said:
Siakam had 5 assists the other night and 5 assists the first game. Ok, he played 40 minutes in each of the games ...Natural passer? I doubt it.
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Are you asking about being a good passer or getting a solid number of assists? You can improve your assist numbers to an extent by being willing to move the ball and learning the standard reads. You can make the easy, obvious passes which, depending on the system and the defense, can certainly lead to baskets--but that's different from being able to make the passes that the defenses can't anticipate, that cross them up and create opportunities that didn't exist without your vision.

Collins and Harkless can make the basic passes, and maybe can improve their ability there a bit, but they don't handle the ball as much as Siakam and shouldn't on a team with Lillard, McCollum and Nurkic. Nor do the Blazers play a particularly motion-heavy offense like the Warriors or Raptors, where basic passes can lead to easy scores. So their assist numbers are going to be low.
 
Minstrel said:
Collins and Harkless can make the basic passes, and maybe can improve their ability there a bit, but they don't handle the ball as much as Siakam and shouldn't on a team with Lillard, McCollum and Nurkic. Nor do the Blazers play a particularly motion-heavy offense like the Warriors or Raptors, where basic passes can lead to easy scores. So their assist numbers are going to be low.
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Nic Batum averaged 5 assists a game for 3 straight seasons and the offensive system, and motion, was pretty much the same as it is now. And Batum did this while being generally a poor dribbler and driver; his handles were only average, at best. He also accomplished it while have an extremely low usage rate of around 16%. He didn't hold the ball or stall the offense like Turner always does. But Batum had really good court vision and made quick decisions. Olshey's decisions to go from Batum to Turner was horrible (even though it took a year). Further, the individual transactions: the trade of Batum then the signing of Turner were each one failure

I think there are too many excuses being offered for Portland's flaws and weaknesses (not saying that's what you're doing). Both the roster construction and the schemes should have been better to this point, in some cases, a lot better
 
hoopsjock said:
The difference is when Griffin is healthy, he's still an All-NBA level player. Kevin Love won't ever sniff the All-NBA teams again in his career.
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Griffin was the best he has been in six years and missed the least amount of game sin six years. There is no way he does either again, his body is going to break down just like Gerald Wallaces did.
 
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