The Raptors should be an example to us of how to build a better team

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Natebishop3 said:
I disagree. I think Kawhi is an exceptional player. Better than Dame. On par with Curry. I think they also have a much better overall roster, and as far as I can tell, they're healthy. We were not healthy. Not even close. Hood had that knee injury, Dame had separated ribs, Kanter with his shoulder and Ramadan, and Aminu also playing through Ramadan.
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That's fine we can disagree.
But imo to say Toronto has a very good chance to beat GSW is a stretch.
No one is going to favor Toronto.

Should KD return Toronto will struggle to find the offense to keep up with GSW.
 
H.C. said:
That's fine we can disagree.
But imo to say Toronto has a very good chance to beat GSW is a stretch.
No one is going to favor Toronto.

Should KD return Toronto will struggle to find the offense to keep up with GSW.
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I tried to send you a message but it said I'm not allowed to start a conversation with you, lol.

Do you want to play in our mock off season? We just need a couple more players.
 
H.C. said:
That's fine we can disagree.
But imo to say Toronto has a very good chance to beat GSW is a stretch.
No one is going to favor Toronto.

Should KD return Toronto will struggle to find the offense to keep up with GSW.
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Did I say I favored them? No.

I think they have a very good chance. That can mean any number of different things.
 
BonesJones said:
Look up their percentage on wide open shots, then get back to me.

It seems like people are having trouble trying to grasp the context of what I'm trying to illustrate. We shouldn't be basing future decisions off of making the WCF vs. the 2nd round. Obviously it was fun and a great moment to reach the WCF, but:

1.) We barely won the 2nd round
2.) We had to come back from 28-down with scrubs to get the 3 seed to make the WCF

I'm NOT saying it's flukey. I'm saying that the difference between the 2nd round and WCF is negligible in regards to building this team for the future.
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But you’re saying on the other Hand Toronto is the model to follow. They barely made it out of the 2nd round too... If they get swept or heck lets give em a game, what does that really prove? Someone from the east has to make the finals.

I guess to some extent I agree, they shouldnt use this “run” as grounds to just keep the cake in the oven... They should be open to making moves to try to get better.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
But you’re saying on the other Hand Toronto is the model to follow. They barely made it out of the 2nd round too... If they get swept or heck lets give em a game, what does that really prove? Someone from the east has to make the finals.

I guess to some extent I agree, they shouldnt use this “run” as grounds to just keep the cake in the oven... They should be open to making moves to try to get better.
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Philly was a way better team than Denver.
 
To those who say the Raptors don't have a chance ... The Raptors swept the season series with the Warriors. No, it doesn't mean they will sweep them, but it is not irrelevant either.
When you play good defense, you always have a chance. This is something people don't seem to understand. They get out on shooters. They force turnovers. They steal the ball. They have guys who can finish at the Rim and shoot from the outside decently. They can scramble. Remember that the Bucks had some decent shooters, which they shut down. They closed out on Giannis and recovered back to their shooters. They have shot blockers. And they have been in some tough games ... And they have home court advantage.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
No way... Philly’s got major issues, they have “talent” but most of that talent doesnt seem to fit. Embiid looks old already. Denver also had a better record, in the better conference.
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Record doesn't mean shit in the playoffs.... as proven by us against New Orleans.
 
BonesJones said:
Look up their percentage on wide open shots, then get back to me.

It seems like people are having trouble trying to grasp the context of what I'm trying to illustrate. We shouldn't be basing future decisions off of making the WCF vs. the 2nd round. Obviously it was fun and a great moment to reach the WCF, but:

1.) We barely won the 2nd round
2.) We had to come back from 28-down with scrubs to get the 3 seed to make the WCF

I'm NOT saying it's flukey. I'm saying that the difference between the 2nd round and WCF is negligible in regards to building this team for the future.
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Makes sense. The reality is we're not bringing the same team back even if we want to.

I'm not sure why all the opposition to trying to improve the team. Stotts is not going to be fired. Neither is Olshey. Players moves will be made.
 
e_blazer said:
Just for the record, I never intended to indicate that Olshey and his team weren’t on board with the Crabbe contract. I do, however, think that not getting outbid for one of his restricted free agents was something that PA was fully behind. Can you point to anytime where we didn’t match?
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I'm probably forgetting something but I can only remember 2 instances: Batum & Crabbe

but I sure as hell can point to one time when Portland should NOT have matched and that was with Crabbe. Portland essentially paid over 38M for one year of Crabbe when he had a PER of 11.6, a winshare/48 of 0.89 and a box plus/minus of -1.0. Making it worse is that the Blazers will have to endure 7 years of a 2.85M stain of dead salary on the cap.

and it was all about as predictable as rain in January. Crabbe was a one dimensional player who played bad defense. Brooklyn was dumb as hell to offer him that and Portland was dumber than dumb as hell to match. The Nets pulled Olshey's fat out of the fire by stupidly agreeing to trade for him a year later. Without that, the Blazers would have been in a world of hurt the last 2 seasons
 
scary thing is Kawhi is younger than dame , I had no idea.

who will be the next superstar to sign a let-me-rest-20-games-so-I- can kill-it-during-the-postseason deal?

kd??? ad??
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
This is fairly inaccurate. Many moves over the past 20ish years there were rumors of PA being a big part in them. Its not some new thing with NO.
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you really need to track this specific discussion back further in this thread. It all started when a poster claimed that matching Crabbe was PA's decision, not Olshey's

again, nobody is saying that PA wasn't involved in decisions. What we're saying is that blaming PA for the bad decisions while letting Olshey skate on accountability, then turning around and crediting Olshey for the good decisions makes no sense. If PA was right up front on the bad moves, he was right up front on the good moves. To believe otherwise is irrational

Was it PA or Olshey that offered a max contract to Roy Hibbert? Who offered a max to Enes Kanter and then Greg Monroe? Who essentially traded away four 2nd round picks and a chunk of cap-space for TRob? Who offered a max-MLE to Spenser Hawes? Who traded Will Barton and a 1st for Aaron Afflalo? Who traded Batum for Henderson and Vonleh and later traded away Vonleh to avoid tax? Who tried to sign Meyers to a rumored 15M/year deal then a year later signed him to a 10M/year deal? Who offered a max contract to Chandler Parsons? ...then who pivoted from Parsons to offering 70M to Turner? Does anybody really believe that was Paul Allen front and center on all those moves?

I'm waiting for the next bad move Olshey makes...it will be Jody Allen's fault. Those damn Allens
 
wizenheimer said:
again, nobody is saying that PA wasn't involved in decisions. What we're saying is that blaming PA for the bad decisions while letting Olshey skate on accountability, then turning around and crediting Olshey for the good decisions makes no sense. If PA was right up front on the bad moves, he was right up front on the good moves. To believe otherwise is irrational
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Agreed.

PA was always involved as 95% of all owners are. The owners almost always have the final say.

However, history has indicated that PA almost always deferred to the GMs recommendation. Some examples off the top of my head incluse the Roy contact extension negotiation and Oden over Durant.

On the Crabbe match, it was clear that PA didnt want 'talent' walking out the door. However, it is very unclear how much (if any) resistance NO gave (this has been & should stay private). Its the GMs responsibility to discuss & educate the owner on what the player is really worth.

Anyone who looked at advanced metrics could see Crabbe was a MLE type guy at best. Given how progressive PA was on the analytical side, Id have to assume that he'd agree with the GM if presented with a compelling reason not to match.

Given all the money given out by NO that summer, Id have to guess that he didn't disagree with the Crabbe matching.

At the end of the day, its all speculation. However, if you're of the mindset that PA was the 'defacto' GM, then he should get just as much credit as blame for all the decisions.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Did I say I favored them? No.

I think they have a very good chance. That can mean any number of different things.
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Did I say you said you favored them? No

This is where I give say to you the Public reason you gave for resigning as a mod for s2.
 
In the last 4 years...

1) The Blazers had a 10-game playoff losing streak, which sounds bad!
2) The Blazers have an overall playoff record of 13-22, which is better, but still mediocre.
3) The Blazers are 12-10 against non-Warriors playoff teams, which actually sounds good to me.
4) The Blazers have been in the playoffs each of the last 4 years, have gotten advanced twice, and made it to the
conference finals once. The sounds very nice.

So, if you want to be a curmudgeon, there are certainly stats to reinforce your view.
If you want to be an optimist, there are also stats to support you.

So, each fan's views reflect themselves. Who do you want to be???
 
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Wizard Mentor said:
In the last 4 years...

1) The Blazers had a 10-game playoff losing streak, which sounds bad!
2) The Blazers have an overall playoff record of 13-22, which is better, but still mediocre.
3) The Blazers are 12-10 against non-Warriors playoff teams, which actually sounds good to me.
4) The Blazers have been in the playoffs each of the last 4 years, have gotten advanced twice, and made it to the
conference finals once. The sounds very nice.

So, if you want to be a curmudgeon, there are certainly stats to reinforce your view.
If you want to be an optimist, there are also stats to support you.

So, each fan's views reflect themselves. Who do you want to be???
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320c5m.jpg
 
Natebishop3 said:
320c5m.jpg
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Since no small market team has won an NBA championship in the last 40 years that didn't have Tim Duncan or LBJ on it, you are in for a very LONG WINTER.

Sorry, it's just not going to happen. You are either going to end up a bitter old man, or become bandwagonner. May the Lord have pity on your soul, either way.
 
e_blazer said:
Oh, great idea. Let’s do that.

Of course, the question is how do you get good enough to beat the Warriors and the other 28 teams that are also trying to do that?
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Question: How do you get good enough to beat the Warriors and the other 28 teams that are also trying to do that?

Answer: Not the same thing that you have been doing for the past five years.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Since no small market team has won an NBA championship in the last 40 years that didn't have Tim Duncan or LBJ on it, you are in for a very LONG WINTER.

Sorry, it's just not going to happen. You are either going to end up a bitter old man, or become bandwagonner. May the Lord have pity on your soul, either way.
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You're missing the point.

Did I expect us to win a championship this year? No.

Am I upset that we didn't win a championship this year? No.

But what the hell is the point if you're not even trying? Some fans seem to be happy with moral victories and I am not. I want to see the team try new things and take risks. The whole point of this thread is to point out how the Raptors made massive changes and took big risks and now they're in the Finals.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Question: How do you get good enough to beat the Warriors and the other 28 teams that are also trying to do that?

Answer: Not the same thing that you have been doing for the past five years.
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Or: Exactly the same thing you’ve been doing the last five years...get better every year, develop your talent, and watch for a chance at that game-changing trade that can put you over the top.
 
Natebishop3 said:
You're missing the point.

Did I expect us to win a championship this year? No.

Am I upset that we didn't win a championship this year? No.

But what the hell is the point if you're not even trying? Some fans seem to be happy with moral victories and I am not. I want to see the team try new things and take risks. The whole point of this thread is to point out how the Raptors made massive changes and took big risks and now they're in the Finals.
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1) So, you're going with Bitter Old Man?
2) We're trying, Jennifer
3) The Raptor have been at the top of the East for several years, and decided to take a big risk to put them over the top. That risk has yet to pay off. Yes, they made it to the finals, but it was always LBJ who was in their way, and he's gone from the east now. They either need to beat the Warriors OR have KL re-sign. If either happens, THEN yes, their risk payed off.
4) They Blazers also took a risk, expending resources to rent Hood. It payed off in that they went to the conference finals, way ahead of their 1st round ouster in the last 2 years.
 
Natebishop3 said:
You're missing the point.

Did I expect us to win a championship this year? No.

Am I upset that we didn't win a championship this year? No.

But what the hell is the point if you're not even trying? Some fans seem to be happy with moral victories and I am not. I want to see the team try new things and take risks. The whole point of this thread is to point out how the Raptors made massive changes and took big risks and now they're in the Finals.
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Did the Raptors do that in isolation? No. They were good enough and had enough talent to make a deal with the Spurs on a disgruntled superstar. You don’t get the chance at making that trade without the first part.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
1) So, you're going with Bitter Old Man?
2) We're trying, Jennifer
3) The Raptor have been at the top of the East for several years, and decided to take a big risk to put them over the top. That risk has yet to pay off. Yes, they made it to the finals, but it was always LBJ who was in their way, and he's gone from the east now. They either need to beat the Warriors OR have KL re-sign. If either happens, THEN yes, their risk payed off.
4) They Blazers also took a risk, expending resources to rent Hood. It payed off in that they went to the conference finals, way ahead of their 1st round ouster in the last 2 years.
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When the refs start calling moving screens, we'll have a punchers chance at beating them. I'm not holding my breath.... Hell freezing over....
 
wizenheimer said:
you really need to track this specific discussion back further in this thread. It all started when a poster claimed that matching Crabbe was PA's decision, not Olshey's

again, nobody is saying that PA wasn't involved in decisions. What we're saying is that blaming PA for the bad decisions while letting Olshey skate on accountability, then turning around and crediting Olshey for the good decisions makes no sense. If PA was right up front on the bad moves, he was right up front on the good moves. To believe otherwise is irrational

Was it PA or Olshey that offered a max contract to Roy Hibbert? Who offered a max to Enes Kanter and then Greg Monroe? Who essentially traded away four 2nd round picks and a chunk of cap-space for TRob? Who offered a max-MLE to Spenser Hawes? Who traded Will Barton and a 1st for Aaron Afflalo? Who traded Batum for Henderson and Vonleh and later traded away Vonleh to avoid tax? Who tried to sign Meyers to a rumored 15M/year deal then a year later signed him to a 10M/year deal? Who offered a max contract to Chandler Parsons? ...then who pivoted from Parsons to offering 70M to Turner? Does anybody really believe that was Paul Allen front and center on all those moves?

I'm waiting for the next bad move Olshey makes...it will be Jody Allen's fault. Those damn Allens
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Who gives a fuck about Crabbe and whether PA was the final decision maker. It was several years ago and guys like you will be bringing this up again and again probably 20 years later. It was done, it's over and the team made it to the WCF. This is a prime time for "GET OVER IT".
 
e_blazer said:
Did the Raptors do that in isolation? No. They were good enough and had enough talent to make a deal with the Spurs on a disgruntled superstar. You don’t get the chance at making that trade without the first part.
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Plus these same posters that whine about almost everything seem to keep forgetting that the Spurs weren't interested in trading him to a team in the west.
 
Question: If the Raptors lose and Kawhi leaves, is it really better to go that route?

In the West there is no example yet that taking a big risk is better than trying to keep a core with continuity. Sure, I'd love to get one round further next year but if we're talking championship as the ultimate goal if the Raptors lose they aren't really any closer than we were.

Edit: I'm not saying we shouldn't take risks, just that it's hard to see that it is necessarily better than the path we're currently on.
 
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