There's Still Time

[Mr. J]

I was thinking about the state of the Knicks again. I was thinking about college basketball, I was also thinking about college basketball, highschool, and international ball. Who can we draft and who shouldn?t we draft. While I was thinking about this, it hit me like a ton of bricks. We will not even have a pick in this upcoming draft. Don?t you guys remember we gave it to Phoenix in the Marbury deal? Huh?it?s lottery protected? It will not matter because we need to make the playoffs!

I don?t know about the rest of you guys but, watching the post season party without your team is heartbreaking. I mean I almost feel like it?s useless. I like many teams but, I like my Knicks 1,000 times better. Currently the Knicks are 5.5 games back from the Atlantic. We?re not in a hopeless situation. If we win our games that we?re supposed to win, we will be alright.

As much as I?d like to snag a great young talent just as much as the rest of you guy, we can?t miss the playoffs! I remember back in the summer we were expecting good things from the Knicks. Everyone was talking about making it to the 2nd round and even conference finals! We had such high expectations for the Knicks and rightly so. We had Marbury and him learning from the Olympics an extremely important lesson, Crawford providing scoring and excitement, Tim Thomas supposedly working, Sweetney developing, and so many more things. As the season went on, we didn?t fully meet expectations however, things were looking pretty good especially in the Atlantic division. I remember a game this year at home against Minnesota. When we beat them by 13 points and were 3 games above .500, you and I thought this was the beginning of great things to come. Then to our surprise, since then, the Knicks lost 16 of 18 games and are in serious danger of missing the playoffs.

Now us as fans can do two things. We can sit here complain, and hope to get someone in the draft and look till next season. Or we can accept our poor performances and realize that there is ample time to get our season back together. Remember the Miami Heat last year? They were below .500 just like us however, they picked themselves out of the hole and they decided to make a serious run at the playoffs. We can still do that. I was very inspired by the way we played yesterday. There were many positives that can be drawn from that game. We were playing an elite team, a championship contender with the second best record in the league. The defense may not have been at a championship level but, did you know that we only allowed .5 more than what they average? I think that is pretty good for us. Normally they should have shot 60+ percent on us. If we were able to give them trouble like that, that shows we definitely played with more heart and effort. That game was very inspiring and if the Knicks played like that every game I know we can make the playoffs the question is will they.

We can not control the Knicks performance nor can we preach to them what should be done however, what we can do is stick with them through the thick and the thin and hpe that they get their acts together. We have time and us fans need to stay strong and support our team. Anything can happen and especially in the eastern conference. I?m not trying to rebuild anymore, I?m not trying to wait and see who is coming out the draft but what I am trying to do is make the playoffs. I don?t want any silly moves to get us in the playoffs but, one that will benefit us for a while and will not end up being a stupid move. We are 5.5 back from 1st and we need to get back the division we used to dominate! The post season party is nothing without the orange and blue!

 

[Beat]

Nice Pep speech. Isnt there a new rule that says a team cant go two consecutive seasons without a first round pick? And last year we didnt get a first round pick? Any way lets say we do move on , get our headsstraight and make it to the playoffs. Lets see we lose in the first round , where do we go from there? We still have the same team, no first round pick, and weak coaching. Do we make some trades with our expiring contract? If we do that who can we get that will benefit the team? Or do we keep the same team and look for another suprise player deep in the draft and hope that the team falls in love with each other? In my opinion its not worth it unless we get to the conference finals.

 

[Platehpus]

Orange and blue for life.

 

[02civic]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting BobbyEscobar:</div><div class="quote_post">Nice Pep speech. Isnt there a new rule that says a team cant go two consecutive seasons without a first round pick? And last year we didnt get a first round pick? Any way lets say we do move on , get our headsstraight and make it to the playoffs. Lets see we lose in the first round , where do we go from there? We still have the same team, no first round pick, and weak coaching. Do we make some trades with our expiring contract? If we do that who can we get that will benefit the team? Or do we keep the same team and look for another suprise player deep in the draft and hope that the team falls in love with each other? In my opinion its not worth it unless we get to the conference finals.</div>

build a team around working pieces. Go run and gun looking at Stro, Q. Rich, Joe Johnson and Donyell Marshall immediately putting one or more of Nazr, Crawford, Sweetney, KT on the block. I know you're high on Sweetney but sometimes you gotta spend money to make it, ain't nothing free and the Knicks dont currently have any attractive trade commodities besides Sweetney, Ariza and Nazr. Forget about ragging on the coaching, its getting old. Its the team that needs to be reworked. The team has no defensive capabilities and no identity has far as what type of ball the play. The need both of those things. Dont trade the expiring contracts, let them expire!!! And when they do the Knicks will have some cap room to sign free agents. Free agents that will likely take a lower salary to play in NY. This team has gotten to the sad state its at now by not pressing the reset button when its time to do so. They just keep adding overpriced bandaid talent at the expense of a few more years of salary cap woes. I'm not ragging on the team, or you guys. but you have to understand that "WHAT GOOD IS BEING JUST GOOD ENOUGH TO GET IN THE PLAYOFFS, BUT NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO BE CONSIDERED A SECOND ROUND TEAM!!!"
rebuild and come back at it from a different angle in 2 years.
And i personally think Stro should be had! Dude is just plain good.

 

[Mr. J]

^This season we can make the playoffs and still advance. The question is effort. I think it will be best not to knick down the whole tower and rebuild. A lot of knocking down to start all over again.

 

[02civic]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">^This season we can make the playoffs and still advance. The question is effort. I think it will be best not to knick down the whole tower and rebuild. A lot of knocking down to start all over again.</div>

ya sure, they can still make the playoffs if they catch up 5.5 games past 4 different teams!!! But thats not easy especially when all those teams could make the arguement that they as good if not a better team in terms of playing style, talent and just plain old players playing well together.
But needing to make the playoffs, even though they have next to no chance at going to the finals is sort of fruitless dont you think? Unless the reset button is pressed you're going to have a team that year in and year out struggles to get into the playoffs. And the team's not getting any younger. You've got KT who's 33 and locked in with a big contract till he's 37. Marbury will be making 18, 20 and 22 million in the last three years of his contract, and you guys will have him till 2009. Sure loosing Pennies, and Tim Thomas contract will help but like i've said before even without those contracts, and not including signing Ariza after this season, but even without TT and Pennies 15 mil each the Knicks are still at 70 million a season...waaaay over the cap. They cant do any series off season signings until 2007-2008, the year Houstons 20 million dollar contract comes off the books. Only then will they have room to sign people, though still not alot with KT's, Crawfords and Marbury's contracts all being in the way.
If the Knicks keep making these bandaid trades they're just going to get themselves stuck as a high priced but mediocre team. Let the contracts expire, try to trade away Marbury and KT, go for some young guys, and guys that are role players without the pricetag of a superstar.

 

[jbbCourtVision]

Sometimes you have to take one step back to take two steps foward. I think making the playoffs should be important to any team but sometimes there needs to be a time when a team re-tools/rebuilds. Build your team through draft picks and reduce your payroll. The Knicks have never given themselves a chance to rebuild after Patrick Ewing left. I mean how do you think they got him in the first place? He was drafted.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">ya sure, they can still make the playoffs if they catch up 5.5 games past 4 different teams!!! But thats not easy especially when all those teams could make the arguement that they as good if not a better team in terms of playing style, talent and just plain old players playing well together.
But needing to make the playoffs, even though they have next to no chance at going to the finals is sort of fruitless dont you think? Unless the reset button is pressed you're going to have a team that year in and year out struggles to get into the playoffs. And the team's not getting any younger. You've got KT who's 33 and locked in with a big contract till he's 37. Marbury will be making 18, 20 and 22 million in the last three years of his contract, and you guys will have him till 2009. Sure loosing Pennies, and Tim Thomas contract will help but like i've said before even without those contracts, and not including signing Ariza after this season, but even without TT and Pennies 15 mil each the Knicks are still at 70 million a season...waaaay over the cap. They cant do any series off season signings until 2007-2008, the year Houstons 20 million dollar contract comes off the books. Only then will they have room to sign people, though still not alot with KT's, Crawfords and Marbury's contracts all being in the way.
If the Knicks keep making these bandaid trades they're just going to get themselves stuck as a high priced but mediocre team. Let the contracts expire, try to trade away Marbury and KT, go for some young guys, and guys that are role players without the pricetag of a superstar.</div>
What's so hard about passing 4 teams? 4 teams passed us and why can't we take back what was ours? 5.5 games is not a lot at all and is definitely something we can conquer.

Never say never but, I think they can still go far. Experience one gets in the playoffs is priceless which can be used to make them better players, and more importantly more wins in the regualr season.

Whether they decide to rebuild or not, the fact of the matter is they can still make the playoffs and advance. They will have veterans and some young players. The vets can teach while the young'ns learn.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sometimes you have to take one step back to take two steps foward. I think making the playoffs should be important to any team but sometimes there needs to be a time when a team re-tools/rebuilds. Build your team through draft picks and reduce your payroll. The Knicks have never given themselves a chance to rebuild after Patrick Ewing left. I mean how do you think they got him in the first place? He was drafted.</div>
We have many nice young players. Sweetney, Ariza Crawford and Vin Baker. J/K lol but, doing the best you can is number 1. Do you think the Knicks should purposefully play losuier than they are to miss the playoffs to get a nice young player?

 

[jbbCourtVision]

^I don't think any team should purposefully try to tank a season no matter what the circumstances are. But I don't believe in adding more pieces to a team that will at the most get them into the first round of the playoffs. That is what New York did when they acquired Marbury. I thought Lampe still has potential to be a good player and those picks could have been used on solid players.

If New York can give this team the time to rebuild and retool then the Knicks will not be worrying about making it the playoffs, they will be worrying about winning a championship.

Ariza and Sweetney are two potentially good players to build on but I do think they need one or two more picks in the lottery to have a truly solid nucleus for the long term. If I were the Knicks I would want to miss the playoffs and get a lottery pick.

 

[Mr. J]

They should not even be thinking about missing the playoffs or want to for that matter. 1st round at best? We never know. They were saying the same thing about the '99 Knicks and you know what happened. I'm not at all suggesting that something like that will occur however, we don?t know what will happen therefore we can not comment on their future like everything is a sure thing.

 

[jbbCourtVision]

^What would you rather have? Would you rather the Knicks make the playoffs with the team they have now? Or make the lottery? I mean you have stated before that now may be a good time to rebuild. Being a Knick fan you demand the best but like I said before, sometimes to take two steps foward you must take one step back. You do not tank games but sometimes you have to think long term rather than short term. The playoffs are getting farther and farther away. What would you do to get them in there? Trade another pick away for someone that will come in right away and produce?

And the '99 Knicks had Pat Ewing, Marcus Camby, Larry Johnson, Kurt Thomas, Latrell Sprewell and a very healthy Allan Houston. And they also had JVG at the helm. I'm not a pessimist by any means but to say that this years Knicks would duplicate 99 is a little stretch of the imagination.

 

[Mr. J]

Well I would rather have the Knicks make the playoffs. Ariza Crawford and Sweetney will get some valuable experience. I never said trading a pick at all but what would be wrong with that anyway? Trading a pick for an established player in the league isn't really a mistake, Washington did it and they are doing pretty well. The Knicks are capable of making the playoffs so, I should hope that they tank their games and go into the lottery?

The fact of the matter is you don't know what will happen. The Knicks can decide all of a sudden to play great basketball and fully understand their roles. The Knicks can get a championship this year but it will probably not happen. Everything is capable of happening and nothing is imaginary. Something better would to just say it probably wont happen.

 

[02civic]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Well I would rather have the Knicks make the playoffs. Ariza Crawford and Sweetney will get some valuable experience. I never said trading a pick at all but what would be wrong with that anyway? Trading a pick for an established player in the league isn't really a mistake, Washington did it and they are doing pretty well. The Knicks are capable of making the playoffs so, I should hope that they tank their games and go into the lottery?

The fact of the matter is you don't know what will happen. The Knicks can decide all of a sudden to play great basketball and fully understand their roles. The Knicks can get a championship this year but it will probably not happen. Everything is capable of happening and nothing is imaginary. Something better would to just say it probably wont happen.</div>

I'm going to say the odds of the Knicks winning the championship this year are less than 10,000 to one. And washington traded a good pick...a 5th pick for an established player. But in order for New York to get a good pick they're going to have to admit to needing a rebuild and start trading like thats the case. No one's going to give up a good player for a future second rounder.

 

[jbbCourtVision]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Well I would rather have the Knicks make the playoffs. Ariza Crawford and Sweetney will get some valuable experience. I never said trading a pick at all but what would be wrong with that anyway? Trading a pick for an established player in the league isn't really a mistake, Washington did it and they are doing pretty well. The Knicks are capable of making the playoffs so, I should hope that they tank their games and go into the lottery?</div>Like I said before: I don't think any team should tank the season just to make the lottery. BUT I do not think that you should trade your future away just for a CHANCE to make the post season. Trading away your potential lottery pick for someone who MIGHT <font size="1">(and I stress the MIGHT)</font> help you win the playoffs is just not logical. If you want I can start a poll and see what the other Knick fans have to say about that. It's just short term thinking and I think this is a time when the Knicks should start looking further into the future, like years down the future, not months.

Hell maybe Isiah has that state of mind and will trade his lottery pick for Donyell and Jalen. Now that is wishful thinking

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The fact of the matter is you don't know what will happen. The Knicks can decide all of a sudden to play great basketball and fully understand their roles. The Knicks can get a championship this year but it will probably not happen. Everything is capable of happening and nothing is imaginary. Something better would to just say it probably wont happen.</div>Yah and I can say the same thing about all the teams in the NBA under 500. Let's just say that it is 1,000,000 to 1 odds that they will win the championship and 100 to 1 that they will make the playoffs. I know you are a HUGE Knicks fan <font size="1">(and I admire the enthusiasm)</font> but C'mon you have to be a realist at some point in time. They are dead last in the worst division in the NBA. They are on a 5 game losing skid that does not look like it will end any time soon. When will the madness end?

If you want we can make a sig bet on whether they will make the playoffs because I sure as hell know they won't win a championship this year or the next.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">Like I said before: I don't think any team should tank the season just to make the lottery. BUT I do not think that you should trade your future away just for a CHANCE to make the post season. Trading away your potential lottery pick for someone who MIGHT <font size="1">(and I stress the MIGHT)</font> help you win the playoffs is just not logical. If you want I can start a poll and see what the other Knick fans have to say about that. It's just short term thinking and I think this is a time when the Knicks should start looking further into the future, like years down the future, not months.

Hell maybe Isiah has that state of mind and will trade his lottery pick for Donyell and Jalen. Now that is wishful thinking

</div>
A trade to get us into the offseason which will also end up not being regrettable is what I want. I think trading for Marshall would be a good thing just not for our first round pick!

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yah and I can say the same thing about all the teams in the NBA under 500. Let's just say that it is 1,000,000 to 1 odds that they will win the championship and 100 to 1 that they will make the playoffs. I know you are a HUGE Knicks fan <font size="1">(and I admire the enthusiasm)</font> but C'mon you have to be a realist at some point in time. They are dead last in the worst division in the NBA. They are on a 5 game losing skid that does not look like it will end any time soon. When will the madness end?</div>
I know there is a real slim chance with them getting a championship. Nothing is certain though but, there is a chance just real little though! In another thread I have it as a possible joke option. I might be a bit bias on my Knicks but, not that bias

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If you want we can make a sig bet on whether they will make the playoffs because I sure as hell know they won't win a championship this year or the next.</div>
I'll think about it and I'll holla at you later.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm going to say the odds of the Knicks winning the championship this year are less than 10,000 to one. And washington traded a good pick...a 5th pick for an established player. But in order for New York to get a good pick they're going to have to admit to needing a rebuild and start trading like thats the case. No one's going to give up a good player for a future second rounder.</div>
If the Knicks don't make the playoffs, why can't they trade their pick for a legit player? Jamison is a nice young talent. We're not knocking down the whole tower. Waiting for contracts to expire isn't rebuilding.

 

[02civic]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">A trade to get us into the offseason which will also end up not being regrettable is what I want. I think trading for Marshall would be a good thing just not for our first round pick!

</div>

I dont think you'd get Marshall for a first round pick anyways...certainly not a "future" first round pick from a team that looks like it could be stuck at mediocre for some years to come.




<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post"> I'll think about it and I'll holla at you later.</div>

I do believe we already have a sig bet

If NYK wins the atlantic you choose my sig to use until preaseason, if they loose you'll get a anti-Knick one

 

[02civic]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">If the Knicks don't make the playoffs, why can't they trade their pick for a legit player? Jamison is a nice young talent. We're not knocking down the whole tower. Waiting for contracts to expire isn't rebuilding.</div>

jamison was for the 5th pick though. I dont think the Knicks will be THAT low, but i guess its possible.

 

[Mr. J]

I DO NOT want the Knicks to trade a Pick for Marshall, I would rather them get a nice young talent. Any lottery pick is legit maybe not as good as a 5th but, it's still good.

I wasn't really expecting these serious injuries on the Knicks but, a bet is a bet.