Zombie This is an epic disaster.

[wizenheimer]

It doesn't have to be a total renege...

Joe could still pay the Tax-MLE of ~$6.5M instead of the ~$9M negotiated

I know, but I figure that would scuttle the deal (which I'm mostly fine with by the way). It would just be a bad precedent for Cronin to establish as his reputation

 

[mook]

Eh, the epic disaster was trotting out CJ year after year while not having a viable 2nd/3rd option at forward. Plus having a bare cupboard of up and coming guys with star potential.
I mean Christ....that's been the same goddamn problem forever.
I'm not under any illusions that we've fixed all the holes, but Grant is the best forward Dame has ever played with aside from Aldridge.
Ant, Little and Sharpe have way, way more upside than guys like Crabbe or Leonard or Trent.
We've got the best collection of defenders since Matthew blew his Achiles.
I don't really know if we'll be good this year. But at least it's different. I'm actually curious about this team, which I really haven't been for years.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Goran Dragić Is listed at 6’3”. We should have signed him.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

one has corn in it and the other does not?

Ha!

 

[Idog1976]

Eh, the epic disaster was trotting out CJ year after year while not having a viable 2nd/3rd option at forward. Plus having a bare cupboard of up and coming guys with star potential.
I mean Christ....that's been the same goddamn problem forever.
I'm not under any illusions that we've fixed all the holes, but Grant is the best forward Dame has ever played with aside from Aldridge.
Ant, Little and Sharpe have way, way more upside than guys like Crabbe or Leonard or Trent.
We've got the best collection of defenders since Matthew blew his Achiles.
I don't really know if we'll be good this year. But at least it's different. I'm actually curious about this team, which I really haven't been for years.

Very well said. Also Dame is injury free for the first time in what 6 years and it was getting progressively worse. We have no idea what that means. Injuries like that sap your energy. Perhaps now he will play passable defense. Its not an impossibility.

 

[Tince]

We don’t need 500k second year Khris Middleton. We need 20ppg Khris Middleton. That would be an impact move and that’s the kind of move we can’t make right now.

If the only way to get a good player is to get him at their highest value in their prime, then we're in deep trouble.

Again, back to my original point. I believe moves can be made outside of the first 30 hours of free agency.

 

[MickZagger]

Eh, the epic disaster was trotting out CJ year after year while not having a viable 2nd/3rd option at forward. Plus having a bare cupboard of up and coming guys with star potential.
I mean Christ....that's been the same goddamn problem forever.
I'm not under any illusions that we've fixed all the holes, but Grant is the best forward Dame has ever played with aside from Aldridge.
Ant, Little and Sharpe have way, way more upside than guys like Crabbe or Leonard or Trent.
We've got the best collection of defenders since Matthew blew his Achiles.
I don't really know if we'll be good this year. But at least it's different. I'm actually curious about this team, which I really haven't been for years.

Yeah no GM I think fell in love with “his guys” more than Olshey that it was such a detriment.

I almost feel like when he would acquire guys that were high draft picks that never panned out that those were guys he originally wanted to draft that he couldn’t because they were taken higher. The Thomas Robinson, Johnny Flynn types off the top of my head.

 

[Predator]

Eh, the epic disaster was trotting out CJ year after year while not having a viable 2nd/3rd option at forward. Plus having a bare cupboard of up and coming guys with star potential.
I mean Christ....that's been the same goddamn problem forever.
I'm not under any illusions that we've fixed all the holes, but Grant is the best forward Dame has ever played with aside from Aldridge.
Ant, Little and Sharpe have way, way more upside than guys like Crabbe or Leonard or Trent.
We've got the best collection of defenders since Matthew blew his Achiles.
I don't really know if we'll be good this year. But at least it's different. I'm actually curious about this team, which I really haven't been for years.

That was another epic disaster.
The first epic disaster was retaining Stotts after losing to the Pels in 2016.

 

[wizenheimer]

That was another epic disaster.
The first epic disaster was retaining Stotts after losing to the Pels in 2016.

2018...Stotts should have been fired then, but Olshey should have been fired in 2016

 

[MickZagger]

Stotts inability to deviate when players struggled was one of my biggest peeves about him. How long is dude gonna struggle before you give the young guy waiting in the wings a shot?

Rookies were perpetually in the dog house

 

[Natebishop3]

If the only way to get a good player is to get him at their highest value in their prime, then we're in deep trouble.

Again, back to my original point. I believe moves can be made outside of the first 30 hours of free agency.

Yes. We ARE in deep trouble. We are trying to basically build a contender around Dame in a couple years. Contenders need players at their highest value in their prime. We don’t need Neil Olshey bargain bin players.

 

[Chris Craig]

Yes. We ARE in deep trouble. We are trying to basically build a contender around Dame in a couple years. Contenders need players at their highest value in their prime. We don’t need Neil Olshey bargain bin players.

Dame should've started calling out for change after the Pelicans series. The Blazers are now on their twos trying to pull off a quick rebuild to sate Dame.

That said, how were the Blazers supposed to do that? You don't think Cronin was on the phone 24/7 trying to get something done?

 

[Duckhook]

I hope this thread is cathartic for the negative posters here. I came here hoping to read what people think about Cronin's initial moves. Instead, I'm reading peoples' pent up frustrations about Stotts/Olshey/McCollum...? I realize those 3 may have lead up to the situation we're in now, but Cronin wasn't working with a full cupboard when he became interim, and now GM.

I give him credit for his initial moves and talent evaluations. Yeah the Clipper trade felt one-sided, but it got us under the luxury tax and it cleared the way for Ant to blossom. It also gave us a valuable trade piece with Bledsoe's expiring. And I like the Keon acquisition - he's going to surprise some people. Overnight, we've become more athletic and much more electric... and Joe isn't done. I'm expecting another big piece landing soon before we head to LV. Bottom line - I want players who want to play, want to be in Portland, and enjoy the game. No prima donnas... No Durant PLEASE. Watching this young, hungry summer league roster gets be jazzed for the future. Sorry this is too long and most won't read. But I'm excited about our future. I've been a fan since I was born in 72, and will always be a fan... unless the team is moved.

I just don't get the angst when things aren't done yet. Let Cronin finish what he's started and let the cake bake. We're looking good!

 

[Tince]

Yes. We ARE in deep trouble. We are trying to basically build a contender around Dame in a couple years. Contenders need players at their highest value in their prime. We don’t need Neil Olshey bargain bin players.

For us to obtain players in the first 30 hours of free agency that were at their highest value in their prime would've also required giving up the rights to many players on our roster. I'm not sure this could be done in one-step. To stay on topic to the original post in this thread, I still believe teams are allowed to make moves outside of a 30 hour window on June 30th and July 1st and therefore things could change between now and the 2023 playoffs.

 

[Tince]

I hope this thread is cathartic for the negative posters here. I came here hoping to read what people think about Cronin's initial moves. Instead, I'm reading peoples' pent up frustrations about Stotts/Olshey/McCollum...? I realize those 3 may have lead up to the situation we're in now, but Cronin wasn't working with a full cupboard when he became interim, and now GM.

I give him credit for his initial moves and talent evaluations. Yeah the Clipper trade felt one-sided, but it got us under the luxury tax and it cleared the way for Ant to blossom. It also gave us a valuable trade piece with Bledsoe's expiring. And I like the Keon acquisition - he's going to surprise some people. Overnight, we've become more athletic and much more electric... and Joe isn't done. I'm expecting another big piece landing soon before we head to LV. Bottom line - I want players who want to play, want to be in Portland, and enjoy the game. No prima donnas... No Durant PLEASE. Watching this young, hungry summer league roster gets be jazzed for the future. Sorry this is too long and most won't read. But I'm excited about our future. I've been a fan since I was born in 72, and will always be a fan... unless the team is moved.

I just don't get the angst when things aren't done yet. Let Cronin finish what he's started and let the cake bake. We're looking good!

I mostly agree. The looking good part is up in the air, but given the assets on the roster in December, Cronin is clearly trying something different. Most people wanted a major shake-up. Some of those same people seemed to be upset the shake up didn't result in 3 All-NBA players coming to Portland in 30 hours. Sadly, given the quantity of negative assets we had, that task was impossible if the requirement is to obtain players at their peak value today.

I'm willing to give Cronin another year to start shaping this roster. I don't know if Dame is willing to.

 

[Chris Craig]

I hope this thread is cathartic for the negative posters here. I came here hoping to read what people think about Cronin's initial moves. Instead, I'm reading peoples' pent up frustrations about Stotts/Olshey/McCollum...? I realize those 3 may have lead up to the situation we're in now, but Cronin wasn't working with a full cupboard when he became interim, and now GM.

I give him credit for his initial moves and talent evaluations. Yeah the Clipper trade felt one-sided, but it got us under the luxury tax and it cleared the way for Ant to blossom. It also gave us a valuable trade piece with Bledsoe's expiring. And I like the Keon acquisition - he's going to surprise some people. Overnight, we've become more athletic and much more electric... and Joe isn't done. I'm expecting another big piece landing soon before we head to LV. Bottom line - I want players who want to play, want to be in Portland, and enjoy the game. No prima donnas... No Durant PLEASE. Watching this young, hungry summer league roster gets be jazzed for the future. Sorry this is too long and most won't read. But I'm excited about our future. I've been a fan since I was born in 72, and will always be a fan... unless the team is moved.

I just don't get the angst when things aren't done yet. Let Cronin finish what he's started and let the cake bake. We're looking good!

Not looking to be negative. I'm actually excited about SL and the regular season. I like Cronin's moves netting us Grant and Payton II. I like that we have Hart.

The first move with the Clippers wasn't really a move, other than to make space, it was a favor that won't be returned. I don't fully blame Cronin for it. That has Jody and Bert's fingerprints all over it.

It did hurt the Blazers. Ujiri thought he could get more out of us for Anunoby and the move fell through. Hopefully, Sharpe makes me thankful it did. Likely, the same thing happened with a Collins trade from ATL.

Again, happy with Cronin's draft, trades, and signings here the past few weeks.

I'm excited to see Dame return and play above what he has. Dude is going to come like a supe.

I just feel like Dame should have called for change years ago (after the Pelicans slaughtered us in the playoffs). I get the pressure he is putting on the Blazers but it feels a little too late. I hope I am wrong. He is giving them a time limit, (which I get with him aging and only having so many years left) that feels a little unrealistic for a team like the Blazers to make a turn around in. I think he could spare a few more. He has plenty of time to go ring chase elsewhere if it doesn't work out.

The Blazers are at least doing things different. There is accountability. There is a mindset that defense matters. We don't have a great team, but we have an underdog team with a chip on it's shoulder. Let's see what happens.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

That said, how were the Blazers supposed to do that? You don't think Cronin was on the phone 24/7 trying to get something done?

Cronin quite possibly, or quite likely was. But yes, there likely weren't any option this summer to build a contender as Cronin, Dame and many fans were hoping for. But the main problem isn't Cronin time on the phone this summer; its Cronin putting himself in this no win situation. We should have had ideally a great GM, if not at least a competent GM start the rebuild once Neil was fired. Instead we rushed into a bunch of bad trades at the deadline that set the team on the path to the lack of options this summer. Now we are stuck with this shit roster.

The one potential for hope is the Sharpe pick. If it wasn't for that this roster around Dame would be hopeless. That gives us a sliver of a hope, if he can become a star then maybe this team can become something. Odds are he won't hit that, but that is the only thing Cronin has done that gives this franchise a chance of building toward a contender. All of Cronins others moves are the same quality as Olshey's; if not worse.

 

[Natebishop3]

For us to obtain players in the first 30 hours of free agency that were at their highest value in their prime would've also required giving up the rights to many players on our roster. I'm not sure this could be done in one-step. To stay on topic to the original post in this thread, I still believe teams are allowed to make moves outside of a 30 hour window on June 30th and July 1st and therefore things could change between now and the 2023 playoffs.

I’m not entirely sure why you’re laying that out while we are debating them hard capping us and making it much much harder to go out and acquire the kind of talent it will need to build a contender around Dame.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I’m not entirely sure why you’re laying that out while we are debating them hard capping us and making it much much harder to go out and acquire the kind of talent it will need to build a contender around Dame.

Yeah its odd that so many posters don't seem to realize we are hard capped, and what that restriction means exactly to this roster. We have almost no flexibility to make moves, plus the big salaries (Nurk, Simons, Grant, EBEC full salary) are ineligible to be traded. There is almost nothing this team can do to improve the roster from now until the season starts, outside of a minor move such as swapping a backup.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah its odd that so many posters don't seem to realize we are hard capped, and what that restriction means exactly to this roster. We have almost no flexibility to make moves, plus the big salaries (Nurk, Simons, Grant, EBEC full salary) are ineligible to be traded. There is almost nothing this team can do to improve the roster from now until the season starts, outside of a minor move such as swapping a backup.

Yup. We are really stuck unless we want to trade Dame. We can’t make a major trade until Simons becomes tradeable.

 

[Tince]

I’m not entirely sure why you’re laying that out while we are debating them hard capping us and making it much much harder to go out and acquire the kind of talent it will need to build a contender around Dame.

I believe this started with me saying 30 hours into to free agency is premature to draw grand conclusions. I didn't think we were hard capped at this point. Am I wrong? I believe I'm not technically wrong given that we aren't even allowed to sign players yet and I don't believe the Grant trade has happened.

 

[Natebishop3]

I believe this started with me saying 30 hours into to free agency is premature to draw grand conclusions. I didn't think we were hard capped at this point. Am I wrong? I believe I'm not technically wrong given that we aren't even allowed to sign players yet and I don't believe the Grant trade has happened.

The hard cap rules have been explored in multiple threads. I’m not going to rehash it in here. We decided to use the MLE 30 hours into free agency which essentially hard caps us.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I believe this started with me saying 30 hours into to free agency is premature to draw grand conclusions. I didn't think we were hard capped at this point. Am I wrong? I believe I'm not technically wrong given that we aren't even allowed to sign players yet and I don't believe the Grant trade has happened.

Order of operations doesn't matter, the Blazers have to stay under the hard cap.

The only way the Blazers can do other moves or gain flexibility would be to back out of the contract they agreed to give GP2, which I don't believe an NBA team has ever done.

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

1. Under Cronin, this wasn’t expected to be a one-summer-fix to the roster. Right?
2. Up to and during the draft, he went for it with the Blazers mentioned often in the chatter and picked Sharpe — the definition of aiming high in this draft.
3. Having gotten unlucky with Paul-George-Covid and not getting a 2nd (and late) lottery pick, the MIL ‘25 pick and #36 delivers the best recent, actual-scoring-forward — Jerami Grant.

No AWESOME trade made — and the reality of Grant and Sharpe are pending — AND that leaves a high caliber SF yet to get … and an actual back-up BIG (preferably a PF/C). And the team won’t necessarily be “done” in order to contend.

4. Little, Hart, Payton — covering SF and back-up guard minutes. I like all 3 as back-ups. Winslow, Watford, Brown getting back-up Forward minutes. NO, I’m not thrilled about SF or back-up bigs.

To suggest that Cronin has “failed” or that this is an “epic disaster” or even a disaster? Not buying it. With Olshey and Stotts gone (and CJ), I like this team better.

Since I’m not a fan of Cronin — for or against — it’s not about him or the past. I simply look forward to next season.

 

[Tince]

The hard cap rules have been explored in multiple threads. I’m not going to rehash it in here. We decided to use the MLE 30 hours into free agency which essentially hard caps us.

No signings until July 6th, right?

 

[Tince]

To suggest that Cronin has “failed” or that this is an “epic disaster” or even a disaster? Not buying it. With Olshey and Stotts gone (and CJ), I like this team better.

Since I’m not a fan of Cronin — for or against — it’s not about him or the past. I simply look forward to next season.

Louder for the people in the back!

30 hours of free agency is a bit earlier to be claiming epic disaster due to a lack of moves.

 

[Tince]

Order of operations doesn't matter, the Blazers have to stay under the hard cap.

The only way the Blazers can do other moves or gain flexibility would be to back out of the contract they agreed to give GP2, which I don't believe an NBA team has ever done.

Agreed... So if/when they sign Payton, they are hard capped. July 6th is the first day we could be hard-capped, but it doesn't prevent us for making any moves the rest of the year, correct?

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Agreed... So if/when they sign Payton, they are hard capped. July 6th is the first day we could be hard-capped, but it doesn't prevent us for making any moves the rest of the year, correct?

The only big salaries that can be traded are Dame and Hart. Hart makes $12 million, so he can't match salary to most of the starters many fans hoped the Blazers may consider bringing in.

If the Blazers weren't hard capped they could explore all sorts of trades right now; such as Eric Bledsoe nonguaranteed $19 million going out in the next week+. It could bring in a starter, bring in John Collins, bring in OG, be part of a package for a Durant trade, etc, etc. Or even be the 3rd team in one of these trades, gaining some assets to help another team get a star. But none of those trades are possible right now because the Blazers are hard capped.

The rest of the trade restrictions such as Ant and Nurk are lifted in December, so the Blazers could make a trade then, as long as they take back less salary then they send out. Taking back less salary usually requires giving up more in a trade.

So yes the Blazers could make a small number of moves now to improve, they could make a lot more moves in December to improve. But the majority of moves that could have improved the Blazers are not available now and will not be available through the trade deadline due to the hard cap.

So odds are for the next 5 and a half months the roster is likely more or less set as is.

 

[wizenheimer]

each time I think about the Blazers being hard-capped because of Payton, it looks a little worse

 

[SharpesTriumph]

each time I think about the Blazers being hard-capped because of Payton, it looks a little worse

Yeah I'm wondering if it might ultimately be a worse move than the Clippers trade.

Its will be very hard to judge, because we don't know and will likely never know what trades or other improvements could've been completed if the Blazers weren't hard capped.