This Team Has Clearly Overachieved - Who Deserves The Credit?

[hasoos]

"Overachieved".

As compared to what - preseason expectations?

The whole fact that the Blazers are only 4 games in the loss column behind 2nd place in the west speaks for itself. Think about that. All the shit that went on this year, and here we are. 4 games out of 2nd place. Do you think Greg is worth 4 games if healthy? How about Joel? How about Batum?

There have been a lot of games that have been ugly, and there have been a lot of games where the team looked beat down. But in the overall scheme of the NBA environment and the achievements of the year, they have done pretty damn good.

It's just hard to watch, when you expected to watch something...better!

 

[BlazerCaravan]

"Overachieved".

As compared to what - preseason expectations?

I think "compared to the day Joel went down" is probably a good place to start. It was one thing when Greg went down, but to have Joel drop too basically made any expectations of the playoffs moot in a lot of people's minds.

Maybe not yours, and I'm sure you'll tell us so at length and correct us on our sliding expectations. But given that I personally thought the season was lost in December, I have to say that what the team has achieved is way over my expectations. Thus, they overachieved in my book.

I give Nate and KP a ton of credit: Nate for being a fantastic motivator, and KP for bringing in the best group of vets and 2nd round draft picks I've every seen join a team. While neither's in the rotation anymore, Dante and Jeff each won us a game or two. I doubted Andre early, but have been proven wrong. Juwan proved damn near everyone wrong. And Camby was straight up smart.

Hell, everyone on the team deserves credit. Even Outlaw, who turned into Camby instead of a pumpkin.

 

[<-=*PdX*=->]

KP

He obtained Miller, Howard & Camby and saved the season.

And, most importantly of all, he did it without giving up "the future". We got all 3 of those players and all we lost was Blake and Outlaw (who everyone and their brother had in every trade scenario). KP did a great job of saving this season and has us in a spot to re-sign both Camby and Miller on the cheap along with getting Oden back next season and who knows what this team can do. KP is not going anywhere. People need to put that behind them. Way too many people reading into things that were not there all week. Any of you watch South Park on wednesday? Thats exactly what was happening here.

 

[mook]

KP did a great job of saving this season and has us in a spot to re-sign both Camby and Miller on the cheap

I'm actually pretty optimistic both guys want to retire here. They genuinely seem to be having a fun time out there. Man, if we can get Oden and Przybilla back AND Camby and Miller....fuck, that could be one fantastic team.

Even if Camby doesn't return, it's going to be fun watching a fully comfortable Miller start next year. You take out the massive injuries and the PG starting drama, and it could be a truly memorable season.

 

[tlongII]

I have to admit that Miller has performed better than I expected. Of course some of that might be because of just how bad our PG play was previously. I think KP should get Executive of the Year and Nate should win Coach of the Year. They've both done outstanding jobs. The trade for Camby was absolutely HUGE! I still can't believe we made that deal. It gives me hope that we can actually win a playoff series without HCA!

 

[oldguy]

I was gonna say... reason we are in the playoffs...

1. Andre Miller literally saved this season.

2. J Howard also saved us.




3. Webster (played every game and played well when key guys were out.)

4. Camby has won us at least 5 games since we traded for him.

So who was it that brought in #'s 1, 2, & 4?

like i said... KPees a great gm if youre the nets or twolves....

but when you have your core... he blows. ...

Weren't those three guys added to the existing core?

Does this mean that KP doesn't blow, but you do?

After what i heard from Kenny Vance and Quick.... I really wonder did kpee make the camby deal to save our season or his job? Or maybe both? I think Allen is getting impatient and by firing Penn hes saying nobody is safe. This should be a crazy summer imo.

So, have you now figured out that KP made the Camby trade to save the season?

Go Blazers

 

[oldguy]

I was gonna say... reason we are in the playoffs...

1. Andre Miller literally saved this season.

2. J Howard also saved us.




3. Webster (played every game and played well when key guys were out.)

4. Camby has won us at least 5 games since we traded for him.

Cunningham odd man out. It also looks like our bench is beyond dreadful. And the scary thing is... when Rudy comes back in 2 weeks.... im guessing hes our reserve SF until batum is back.

Fact of the matter... until outlaw comes back... we have to watch howard. Thats beyond brutal cause the dude gets abused out there... and thats being nice. He is sooooooooo bad. We cannot go forward with outlaw as our backup PF. But thinking KP would upgrade us is thinking the twolves will make the playoffs. In other words... NO CHANCE IN HELL. I FUCKING HATE PRITCHARD.

Your #2 above tells me that you may have FINALLY found a clue...but I'm sure you'll prove me wrong with your next post.

Personally, I think KP DID upgrade the team, and he gets a lot of the credit for the team making the playoff this year. I KP.

Go Blazers

 

[Sug]

John Canzano a modern day JC, can we crucify him and get the ball rolling...I wanna see if he will rise again. I mean Easter is right around the corner.

 

[oldmangrouch]

I think "compared to the day Joel went down" is probably a good place to start. It was one thing when Greg went down, but to have Joel drop too basically made any expectations of the playoffs moot in a lot of people's minds.

Maybe not yours, and I'm sure you'll tell us so at length and correct us on our sliding expectations. But given that I personally thought the season was lost in December, I have to say that what the team has achieved is way over my expectations. Thus, they overachieved in my book.

I give Nate and KP a ton of credit: Nate for being a fantastic motivator, and KP for bringing in the best group of vets and 2nd round draft picks I've every seen join a team. While neither's in the rotation anymore, Dante and Jeff each won us a game or two. I doubted Andre early, but have been proven wrong. Juwan proved damn near everyone wrong. And Camby was straight up smart.

Hell, everyone on the team deserves credit. Even Outlaw, who turned into Camby instead of a pumpkin.

I hear you. My point was that expectations have been on a roller-coaster for months now. It is hard to talk about over or under achieving, when none of us have really known what the heck to expect!

 

[rocketeer]

has the answer basically been anyone but nate?

 

[Minstrel]

Even if Camby doesn't return, it's going to be fun watching a fully comfortable Miller start next year. You take out the massive injuries and the PG starting drama, and it could be a truly memorable season.

I'm still thinking it's possible that the biggest benefit to acquiring Miller hasn't even been used yet--him setting up Oden in motion. Something more to look forward to next season.

 

[LittleAlex]

http://sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151699

Look at all of the people in this thread Questioning Miller..... where you guys at now???

I am right here happy as hell to be wrong.


In my defense, I did believe Miller was the best choice of the 4 players courted during the offseason.

And I didn't think Miller was a bad player, just a bad fit. As I said in the other post I think the team has adjusted the way they play which now makes Miller a better fit then he was at the time I posted that quote.

 

[Masbee]

we all said miller was a bad fit and was just a last ditch effort but man... anyone out there today who would rather have hedo instead of miller? infact was there a better signing this off season then miller?

Dude - I never said any worthless, ill-informed shit like this.

So, you know, speak for yourself.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

The injury angle has been long overplayed. This team had a three time all-star in his prime to only miss fifteen games, a young PF that commands a top dollar contract to miss only three and a veteran PG to miss none. Our coach took advantage of the fact we were 2 and 3 deep at positions since our GM had failed to make a consolidation trade, but did not turn water into wine.

When Greg went down, I did not think we would have a chance to make it out of the first round. That is still the case.

When Joel went down, I thought we would need to make a trade to make the playoffs. Juwan exceeded my expectations and then we made the trade for Camby. IMO, we are better with Camby than with Joel.

I did not think Outlaw going down was a big deal. His shot selection and defense have never been great. Him going down let the team finally rehab from thinking he was critical to have on the second unit. Dante Cunningham and Juwan Howard performed great in his absence.

It has been nice to see improvement from Batum and he is an upgrade over Martell. Our team does not revolve around the SF being a huge contributor though.

Rudy has also now played in 52 games.

 

[Masbee]

No single individual deserves the credit. Everybody who fought through those tough times deserves a piece of the pie. It would be very hard for anybody here to not look back at the games, and not see that every player/coach/GM stepped up during different games/times of the season.

Right. It is a team sport afterall.

Last season Win Shares (No, is is not precise are accurate, just a very rough guide to the players that gave production needed to win ball games during a long season). Second number is games played.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/POR/2010.html

13.5 78 BRoy
9.5 81 Aldridge
6.6 82 Joel
6.1 78 Rudy
5.8 69 Blake
5.3 81 Outlaw
4.6 61 Oden
3.7 79 Batum

Sergio, Frye and Bayless were the only other players to get minutes and all were under 1.8. They were not net positives for the team last season.

So last season was Brandon Roy with his sidekick LaMarcus leading the way with and excellent group of role playing helpers - Joel for post defense and rebounding, Rudy and Blake for 3pt shooting, Outlaw for bench offense, Oden and Batum for defensive roles.

You will also note that only Oden and Blake played fewer than 78 games.

This season so far, Win Shares and games played:

8.2 57 BRoy
7.5 69 Aldridge
6.3 72 Miller
3.8 72 Webster
2.8 52 Rudy
2.7 64 Bayless
2.6 64 Howard
2.5 27 Batum
2.4 51 Blake
2.2 21 Oden

Everyone else is under 2 Win Shares.

You will note that Roy, Rudy Batum and Oden have missed a ton of games. And that Travis and Joel from last years list were out.

As far as who helped to "overachieve" this season, Aldridge is about at last year's pace. Some have complained that he didn't "step up" with the front line injuries and during the time Roy was out. But, it could have been worse. At least he is (more or less) matching last season's production.

Roy is well off his pace of last season: Partly due to missed games, partly due to playing hurt, partly due to a couple of nasty shooting slumps he has worked through.

After the big two - Miller is the only other big contributor, outclassing in Win Shares anything we got last season from anybody not named Roy or Aldridge.

After those three, the credit goes to all the rest of the guys. Last season it was all about the top 8. The rest of the team could have been anybody. Wouldn't have mattered.

This season, the team has a "Top 10", with a different hero (seemingly) every game, plus during key stretches have gotten lifts from Dante, Jeff, Outlaw, Joel & now Camby.

Two very different seasons.

 

[KingSpeed]

Juwan Howard.

 

[ABM]

Im happy for LZ and everyone else that shares that sentiment, just not my sentiment

Again...

http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/mar/25/without-mcmillan-blazers-season-is-lost/

 

[oldguy]

I think Nate should get his share of credit. He made the most of the hand he was dealt. I can't ask much more than that. Overall, I'd give Nate a B+ for the season, so far.

I don't think he gets any more credit for where the team is than KP does, though. KP provided a team so deep that they could field decent players no matter who went down. KP resisted the pressure to make the consolidation trade that so many of us armchair GM's insisted should happen, and he choice came up roses.

Go Blazers

 

[barfo]

John Canzano a modern day JC, can we crucify him and get the ball rolling...I wanna see if he will rise again. I mean Easter is right around the corner.

I will go along with this, but I'd like to also put a wooden stake in his heart just to be sure.

barfo

 

[WillG]

The vets came in, infused the young roster with some belief, know how and some tricks of the trade.
I think they have been the greatest influence keeping the 'boat afloat' during the injury storm.

I agree with a previous poster that Camby is better than Joel. So Miller, Roy, Batum, Aldridge and Camby aint too shabby.
So at this stage we are really only missing Oden.

The fact that these guys have done this despite McMillan shackling the team is a minor miracle IMO.

 

[jlprk]

Surprise player was Juwan Howard. He ranks right there with Roy and Aldridge in crucial shots, rebounds, and toughness. Paul Allen overpays for everything, so we get the best in trades by including cash, then Pritchard gets the credit. McMillan's motivational skills won us many games. Surprise downturn of the year was Roy, surprise up was Howard. Pritchard should abandon his youth movement. Look at how good a cheap pickup like Howard is.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I think all deserve a share in the credit. To me though, KP has done the most by bringing in the players that have made the difference. The players KP has brought in have all made huge impacts as well. And Nate seems to coach well when he doesn't have as many options in front of him, or his pets available to him.

 

[MrJayremmie]

we all said miller was a bad fit and was just a last ditch effort but man... anyone out there today who would rather have hedo instead of miller? infact was there a better signing this off season then miller?

without miller... we dont win 35 games. maybe 30

we have had many guys step up. bayless, cunningham, and pendy also stepped in at key times when all hope looked to be lost.

biggest wins of the year.... @OKC, home vs houston oden game, @miami, @dallas x2, @SA, home vs lakers, home vs SA, home vs orlando, @suns before break, @grizz, @GS, home vs dallas

to be continued

I agree. But I think it is funny how fast people react to a bad stretch of games for someone like Miller or Camby and blame KP for a horrible signing/trade. After they start playing well, they start praising them.

Personally, I think Howard has been our most valuable player for this season as a whole. Followed by Miller. Camby would definitely be up with Howard but he is only a recent addition.

Roy is Roy.

 

[craigehlo]

Miller. Without him I have a feeling we would be around 30-35 wins and not having this conversation.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Miller. Without him I have a feeling we would be around 30-35 wins and not having this conversation.

This ... the way he basically morphed into a first option and kept this team afloat with Brandon out, or with Brandon in but hurt really saved this team's bacon a few times.

 

[ehizzy3]

miller

 

[STOMP]

Paul Allen deserves the most credit because it starts at the top... everyone associated with the club is here because of his hires. KP has done a great job assimilating the roster. This years additions through the draft, free agency and trade have been tremendous. It also speaks to the character of the guys, but Nate has done a fine job juggling his deep talented roster keeping them focused on the team goals/play. The 50 wins (or so) they're heading for is incredible. Big time kudos to management. Unless they totally lay an egg in the playoffs expect them to be in the running for league honors and see them rewarded this next offseason.

For the players, though Roy is their marquee star I can't single one guy out as it's truly been a team effort. From night to night different guys have stepped up, played through injury, stayed focused and ready. They've a complimentary blend of solid talents playing together.

This isn't a prediction thread, but I'm going there. I love the 3 long quick guys starting in the frontcourt... they remind me of the Pistons a few years back in the way they can seamlessly switch off, contest everything, and board. The back court, their depth, that they're rolling (11 of 14)... the only Western team with as much talent as these Blazers are Stern's Lakers. Even without homecourt, I see them as having at least an equal shot against anyone but LA. The Jazz are hurting since Kirilenko's injuries and they dumped Brewer. The Nugs aren't the same since they lost Kenyon. The Spurs are without Parker. The Suns and the Mavs don't seem to match up well. A Thunder series might be interesting. I like their chances of going far.

STOMP

 

[MARIS61]

The players get all the credit for wins, the coach and management get the credit for any failure to win.

 

[BlazerWookee]

Me.

 

[Tince]

The players get all the credit for wins, the coach and management get the credit for any failure to win.

That's some crazy logic; players have no accountability in your world.

I assume you don't manage people in your job.