This team is atrocious and has little to no hope of making the playoffs

[kreidertime]

The organization has nobody to blame but themselves because as I've said for three years, they are fucking incompetent with the development of young forwards. You would think at this point the thickheaded, dumbass fans in our fan base will grasp how stupid not putting Lafreniere and Kakko on the first PP unit is as well as giving them 17 to 20 minutes of ice time. What you are seeing now is the result of an incompetent organization who soon will be a complete laughing stock again. You are seeing a team with veterans that are getting older, losing a step, becoming shitty even strength players and can only produce on the pp. Panarin looks like he's lost a step for sure. Kreider has been a shit regular season player for years now. He's been an inconsistent player for years. A soft player physically for years. Trochek has always been an OK player. Nothing great. Not a player that can carry you for stretches. Zibanejad is being dragged down by Kreider at even strength.

Due to the incompetence of this organization on multiple levels to develop Kakko and Lafreniere properly, you soon will have a team full of aging vet forwards with no younger players capable of carrying the team. As I said before, I truly think the fucking stupidity of this organization to hand out NMC's to non franchise, corner stone pieces is part of the reason the Rangers are slow playing it with Lafreniere and Kakko which further proves how incompetent this dumbass organization is.

As usual, we have another weak GM. Drury should be stepping in and enforcing his power on Gallant. Tell him to put Kakko and Lafreniere on the first PP unit full time, split the PP units up or he will be fired. Simple as that. The PP units shoud be setup as follows. Kreider in front. Zibanejad and Lafreniere on each side for one timers. Kakko on the right point. Fox on the left. Same on the second unit. Chytil might be the best shooter on the team. Not giving Gauthier pp ice time in front is moronic. He was a great pp guy in the AHL. It's not rocket science but this fucking coaching staff is too stupid to grasp it. I'm at the point now where I'm not going to watch games. That would be for the first time in over 40 years. It's insulting to the fans to watch this incompetence. If you notice the way I setup the pp. You have one time options on both wings and both points. Yet, the Rangers are so fucking stupid, they can't do something simple like this.

Kreider
Zibanejad Lafreniere
Fox Kakko

Gauthier
Panarin Chytil
Trouba Trochek

 

[Greyvtrayn]

There is no reason for them to not at least try a different line-up on the PPs. They are very predictable and the better teams (and some of the not better teams) have shown how easy it is to shut it down. Whether or not that will translate into better 5-on-5 production and an improvement in play from their young forwards will remain to be seen. Its not like flicking a switch.
Meanwhile, Jack Hughes had a hat trick last night and has 10 or 11 goals on the season.

 

[Ranger71]

They should bite the bullet and trade for Kane sooner than later, and see if they can right the ship before they lose too much ground. If they get 10 pts out of a WC by Xmas they aren't going to be able to make it up.

 

[NYR Fan]

It is posts like this that blow my mind. Do we really REALLY think the biggest issue here is Kakko and Lafreniere not on PP1, and if they were all good and we'd be this great team. That is laughable, sorry but it is.

The issues are much bigger than that.

Our vets only score on the PP. That is not a sustainable model to beat good teams consistently.
Outside of a hot start, Panarin has been terrible since the start of the playoffs last season. East West is all he knows, and he refuses to shoot the darn puck.
Kreider was always going to regress this season from 50 + goals to 30 + goals - still a very good season, but that is a drop from last season none the less.
Igor was always going to regress this season from an epic Vezina season to still very good. Again he is still very good to great, he just isn't epic back to back seasons.
And we 100% needed Miller, Kakko, Lafreniere, and Chytil all to take big steps up to offset some of the losses and regression, and that hasn't happened. Not saying they are playing poorly, just saying they have not taken big steps forward as we needed them to. And I am also not getting into reasons why here either. Coaching, way they are being used, not good enough, on the players, all of the above - don't know, but what I do know is they have not stepped up the way we needed them to in order for us the be a successful, consistent, top level team.

The team does not have near enough depth up front. The top 6 is lacking at least 1 and maybe 2 true top 6 wings. The 3rd line lacks depth, unless you play the kid line together, which then leaves the top 6 short of wingers. And the 4th line should be two of Blais/Goodrow/Vesey, and the 3rd one can fill a 3rd line role, but we have needed all 3 to be in the top 9, and that's isn't good enough - 1 of the 3 at most in the top 9 - then you have the base of a very good 4th line.

On D we still have no consistent partner for Schneider, and the other dmen have been inconsistent thus far. I also expected Miller to make a jump to stud, and he hasn't yet.

Kravtsov is a waste and a bust. And how about Drury take some hits. He finished off the 95% very good base Gorton left him with some grit. Made good trade DL deals. But I don't like how he rounded off the team this season at all, and I also don't like some of his longer term NMC deals he signed. It is a concern.

There is time left, but as we sit here today this team is very flawed, and I don't see it changing soon.

 

[kreidertime]

I read one line your post and ignored it because you’re a fucking moron. It’s fans like you that are the reason this organization continues to be fucking incompetent and has one cup in over 80 years.

 

[NYR Fan]

You are a moron who wants an echo chamber with 6 posters all saying the same thing. Your little followers. It is pathetic.

If you want to talk real hockey and discuss the actual reasons the team is struggling, read my post. If you want to curse, call people names, and blame everything over and over again on Lafreniere and Kakko not playing on PP1, follow your leader. And also wonder why the board has no real differing opinions, and has 6 consistent posters.

 

[Stepupstepan]

What 6 posters are you talking about? I’ve been put on ignore by the Rangers president, gm and the coach Dumpy Dump

 

[NYR Fan]

And for the record, they absolutely can still make the playoffs, they just need to get their S together. I am very interested to see what the Devs are all about tomorrow night.

 

[NYR31]

And for the record, they absolutely can still make the playoffs, they just need to get their S together. I am very interested to see what the Devs are all about tomorrow night.

With 60 games left in the season, of course they can still make it to the playoffs, but this is a team that should be on the upswing and be a SC contender this year and it's not showing that capability so far this season. While Kakko and Lafreniere are performing on par with the vets at even strength, they are nowhere near where they should be in their development to be the top players on the team and make up for the decline in the vets as they get older. That has been a massive failure of this organization and it really sucks because our window to win a cup is not very long since we have so many vets with big salaries, long contracts and limited (or no) ability to move them on.

 

[kreidertime]

Like I said. There is a little hope for this organization going forward after watching how incompetent they have been the last 2 to 3 years with Kakko and Lafreniere .

 

[PorterPanzer]

I do find it curious how the word development is thrown out as an end all to any valid criticism of Laf and Kakko. Players are sent down to the minors for development, once you've made the big squad you are expected to perform and as a Rangers fan nothing would make me happier to see these #1's crushing it but so far they've been underwhelming. Laf won't shoot the puck and if a puck was sitting on the goal line Kakko would shoot it wide. The Rangers were counting on these two to be corner pieces of the organization so there was no AHL development needed, both were fast tracked with moderate expectations. They are lucky to be on a team with marquis players to take any undue pressure to immediately perform. Laf and Kakko have both had 26 minutes of PP ice time this year (#5 & #6 among forwards - Laf 4 SOG/Kakko 2). There is nowhere to go but up for the two unless they continue to keep their guns holstered.

 

[Ranger71]

In hindsight, it's unfortunate the Rangers didn't get Hughes instead of Kakko, as he and Lafreniere are both straight line players without alot of creativity.

 

[NYR31]

I do find it curious how the word development is thrown out as an end all to any valid criticism of Laf and Kakko. Players are sent down to the minors for development, once you've made the big squad you are expected to perform and as a Rangers fan nothing would make me happier to see these #1's crushing it but so far they've been underwhelming. Laf won't shoot the puck and if a puck was sitting on the goal line Kakko would shoot it wide. The Rangers were counting on these two to be corner pieces of the organization so there was no AHL development needed, both were fast tracked with moderate expectations. They are lucky to be on a team with marquis players to take any undue pressure to immediately perform. Laf and Kakko have both had 26 minutes of PP ice time this year (#5 & #6 among forwards - Laf 4 SOG/Kakko 2). There is nowhere to go but up for the two unless they continue to keep their guns holstered.

But Lafreniere and Kakko were picked where they were because the team believed in their talent and that they could be cornerstone players for the next decade+ and they should have been given every chance to succeed and develop as soon as possible. Of course there's a personal accountability part of it, but a big part of the blame for their under-development lies with the team, babying them, giving them minutes akin to a role player and sometimes asking them to play new positions. These are talents that you should be playing 18-20 minutes a game, which is probably what they were playing before coming to the Rangers, and let them learn and live through the growing pains because you expect that when you get to the other side you will reap the benefits for years to come.

Look at Hughes's ice time the first 4 years:
15:51
19:03
19:33
19:03

Now he's on pace for 90+ points and his point production increased every year

Dylan Cozens (picked #7 in Kakko's class)
14:21
15:53
17:06

Having a solid season with 15 points in 21 games.

Kirby Dach (picked #3 right after Kakko)
14:15
18:34
18:02
16:47

He was underwhelming through last season despite getting 18+ minutes, but he made it to the other side and now MTL is reaping the benefits with 17 pts in 21 games

Trevor Zegras (#9 pick in Kakko's class)
15:23
17:54
19:41

61pts last season and so far 20pts in 22 game this season

You can see the pattern on how these players have been handled, where basically starting with season 2 the gloves are off and they're given first-line minutes and it contrasts with how Kakko and Lafreniere have been

Kakko's ice time:
14:16
14:20
15:26
15:41

Lafreniere's:
13:52
13:59
15:58

 

[NYR31]

In hindsight, it's unfortunate the Rangers didn't get Hughes instead of Kakko, as he and Lafreniere are both straight line players without alot of creativity.

He would have been treated just like Kakko and Lafreniere. You and i know there's no way we would have played Hughes ahead of Strome and Zib, therefore Jack would have gotten limited ice time as well.

 

[NYR Fan]

My own take is this is a two-way street. Those who want to place a very large % on the organization, I don't agree with. Lafreniere and Kakko need to do their part as well. Is it small lean one way or the other, organization or player, I'm sure it is, but overall I think both sides have responsibility here.

Let's not act as if these kids haven't been given PT - Kakko over 15 mpg two straight seasons, Lafreniere at nearly 16 mpg this season. That is a good amount of time. I am not going to fret over 2 or 3 mpg more making a huge difference in their development. And a good portion of that would be PP time I'd think.

In some ways the Rangers being a good competitive team last season, and a team with high expectations this season, hurts this whole thing when it comes to ice time for the two. The guys you reference all played for terrible teams. When that is the case why not give them 2 or 3 mpg more on the PP. The Rangers have to balance growing these kids, and winning while having a solid group of proven vet big time players. Do you play them over Panarin, Z, Kreider? It is a "tough" decision to make given the circumstances and playing in NYC.

 

[mrmel29]

The production of these 2 hasn't been there yet. Kakko to me is the better of the 2, responsible defenively and very strong with the puck along the walls. While I'd like to see him out there on the PP I don't think that's the end all. Watching the games while still over passing Kakko should easily have another 5 to 10 goals. The shots he misses in front and empty nets are ridiculous and I think he's too talented a kid not to make the adjustments. Laf on the other hand makes a lot of defensive mistakes, constantly skates towards the boards on offense instead of too he net and also doesn't shoot enough. He needs to cut down on some of the dumb penalties he takes. still. both of them are 21 and can't be given up on. They will get it. Kravtsov has been a disappointment but the kid was drafted ahead of wahlstrom (big mistake) and Dobson. Gallant has to get the kid back in there now that he's healthy and see what he's got. There is too much dead weight on this team veteran wise and that's completely on Drury. As for the coach he doesn't impress me with any kind of system either offensively or defensively and his lack of using a time out ever to break the other teams momentum at times stands out. The guy Im most disappointed in is miller who despite his size is still stick checking instead of bodychecking, is a liability on defense and misses pinches way too much resulting in odd man rushes the other way. Igor has been good just not unconscious like he was last year. After last year this team needs to make the playoffs and I still think they will. That oiler game was a gut punch so will be interesting to see how they come out against the first place devils tonight.

 

[kreidertime]

The kids have no confidence and are behind because they are being played as role players. Fact. It can't be disputed. Only a retarded organization like the Rangers would do that to the first and second overall picks. Go look up history of other forwards drafted 1 or 2 overall. It doesn't happen. This team is fucking incompetent developing young forwards. Mind boggling considering how good they are developing defenseman and goalies.

 

[Messiah717]

The bottom like is players like Hughes and McDavid are franchise changing players. Meanwhile, we drafted two guys you hope can score 25 or so goals consistently.

 

[NYR Fan]

I agree on McDavid, but Hughes was not viewed that way at draft time. McD was viewed as a once in a generation stud epic talent, and he has been so far.

Hughes was the consensus # 1 pick in his draft for a while, but some debated Kakko or Hughes. And most thought Lafreniere was the "better" of the # 1 picks when they compared the two back to back drafts. So something has gone off the rails with our two guys, and it hasn't with Hughes in year 4.

Personally I think it is super lazy and predictable by this board to blame the Rangers leadership for these guys not living up to expectations thus far. I think the leadership, coaching, creativity needs to be better. I also think Lafreniere and Kakko both need to be better, tougher, stronger mentally also.

 

[Messiah717]

I agree on McDavid, but Hughes was not viewed that way at draft time. McD was viewed as a once in a generation stud epic talent, and he has been so far.

Hughes was the consensus # 1 pick in his draft for a while, but some debated Kakko or Hughes. And most thought Lafreniere was the "better" of the # 1 picks when they compared the two back to back drafts. So something has gone off the rails with our two guys, and it hasn't with Hughes in year 4.

Personally I think it is super lazy and predictable by this board to blame the Rangers leadership for these guys not living up to expectations thus far. I think the leadership, coaching, creativity needs to be better. I also think Lafreniere and Kakko both need to be better, tougher, stronger mentally also.

Despite the constant broken record about their development they seem to be doing very little with the ice time they're given.

 

[NYR Fan]

Despite the constant broken record about their development they seem to be doing very little with the ice time they're given.

Totally agree - this goes both ways. So lazy just to blame the organization.

 

[NYR Fan]

For my money, from what I expected the two biggest "kid" disappointments this season have been Miller and Lafreniere.

Now maybe I had unfair and unrealistic expectations, but I thought Miller would take the next step into stud territory. And Lafreniere would be a 25/60 player at least. I have been off on both counts so far.

Kakko I didn't feel the same way about, as I have just not seen a lot from him to expect this big step forward, so my expectations were tempered.

 

[PorterPanzer]

I love statistical discussions 31, I wanted to look a little deeper at the players first 2 seasons in addition to their time on ice to see if what I've suspected is true. You make a good point about the ice time but when you look at the difference in production, specifically SOG you can see why they earned more ice time and why at the end of a game GG may be hesitant to play guys who can't generate offense.

Lafreniere 135 games/177 SOG/31 G/18 A
Kakko - 114 games/190 SOG/19 G/21 A
Hughes - 117 games/265 SOG/44 G/64 A
Cozens 120 games/222 SOG/17 G/34 A
Zegras - 99 games/234 SOG/26 G/48 A
Dach (CHI) - 82 games/127 SOG/10 G/23 A

 

[kreidertime]

Your philosophy is don’t ever blame the organization for doing fucking retarded shit. That's how you go over 80 years with one cup. It's amazing how for over 10 years on this board it's never the coaches fault. Never the organizations fault. It's always the young players fault as to why they aren't doing better. Laughable. 31 and I have provided such obvious, factual evidence as to how they are fucking up Lafreniere and Kakko. Yet, you simply act like learning impaired students who refuse to acknowledge any of it. It got old a year ago. Unfortunately, a lot of our fan base falls under the same saying as the Rangers organization. You can't fix stupid.

 

[kreidertime]

Last night was another example. Lafreniere got a little over 12 minutes of ice time. Kakko, Chytil and Lafreniere got 43 seconds to 1:10 of PP time. Hughes, Bratt and Hischier got about 4 1/2 minutes of PP time. They played 17 to 20 minutes. You can already see this organizational fuckup coming. They will probably trade Lafreniere and Kakko, they will go to an organization that actually has a clue and put up 80+ points in a year or two and buttfuck this team for over a decade.

As far as Shesterkin. He looks like a parent that isn't getting any sleep with a newborn. He needs to hire a nanny, let her and his wife take care of the kid and get his head out of his ass.

 

[NYR Fan]

Your comments are fascinating sometimes. The only one who I see speaking in absolutes is you. It is on the organization and specifically, on the organization because they won't give Kakko and Lafreniere PP1 time - if only they gave them PP1 time.

I have written numerous times I believe it is a two-way street. Organization and players both have responsibility for how Kakko and Lafreniere have not developed thus far. Others have written the same.

So please don't make statements like you never blame the organization. It takes two to tango

 

[PorterPanzer]

I like the direction the organization is going. Who wouldn't after last years playoff run? Your problem is you judge players emotionally so when you see a young prospect's picture and you feel a tingle up your leg you defend that prospect vociferously like a travel ball parent. I think if you look at my post regarding 31's playing time for #1s and find a friend who is good at math you'll see a startling difference in production.

 

[NYR31]

Last night was another example. Lafreniere got a little over 12 minutes of ice time. Kakko, Chytil and Lafreniere got 43 seconds to 1:10 of PP time. Hughes, Bratt and Hischier got about 4 1/2 minutes of PP time. They played 17 to 20 minutes. You can already see this organizational fuckup coming. They will probably trade Lafreniere and Kakko, they will go to an organization that actually has a clue and put up 80+ points in a year or two and buttfuck this team for over a decade.

As far as Shesterkin. He looks like a parent that isn't getting any sleep with a newborn. He needs to hire a nanny, let her and his wife take care of the kid and get his head out of his ass.

And they'd probably have to trade them at a discount too because they have underachieved for their draft position so we won't be getting full value for a player picked that high up. Since this is already their 3rd and 4th full seasons, we're not far from people starting to throw out the "bust" word, which would only decrease trade value.

It's all very unfortunate because the window to win is not very long given our age and contract situation with many of our key players and we have not maximized our potential to win during that window.

 

[NYR31]

I have written numerous times I believe it is a two-way street. Organization and players both have responsibility for how Kakko and Lafreniere have not developed thus far. Others have written the same..

Yes, there is a level of responsibility that falls on the players, but Alexis and Kaapo are players who should have been put in top-line situations early on and now in their 3rd and 4th seasons they still haven't.

No one is here saying "why isn't Cuylle getting 18-20 minutes a game". You don't draft a player #1 or #2 in a draft hoping he'll become a serviceable 3rd line player. You do because you think he'll be a cornerstone of your team for many years to come and you need to play the heck out of them and live through their mistakes so that hopefully they reach the potential that made you draft them in that position in the first place. That is the difference and the frustration with how Lafreniere and Kakko have been handled by us vs how other highly drafted players like the ones i noted have by their respective teams. They are reaping the benefits while we still have no idea why kind of players they'll become.

 

[kreidertime]

Yep. There has been close to zero commitment from the organization with Lafreniere and Kakko. Pathetic. If they were played the way all these organizations play top picks and the produced like this then it’s on them. That is not the case. Also, if our even strength offense will suck, might as well hire Trots and have somebody teach them defense.