Thomas Robinson - young Zbo comparison

[mook]

Seems like Robinson is starting to find his footing. Over the past 4 games he's playing 12-18mpg, and he hasn't looked like total dogshit like he did at the start.

So I did a quick look and was kind of shocked to see he'd put together a PER of 15.7---obviously with only a total of 128 minutes played, it's pretty meaningless beyond demonstrating that he hasn't been horrible.

It reminded me of Zbo doing really well in a ridiculously small sample size as a rook, so I ran a comparison. Turns out these guys were shockingly similar in productivity. Look particularly at the per 36 minutes stats.

Obviously, these guys have very different styles. Robinson is a high flyer athlete, while Zbo was always a clever scorer around the rim. But both guys seem to demonstrate very nice rebounding ability right from the get-go, though.

I think I'm going to refresh this comparison as the season progresses and see how he continues to measure up. We could have a real gem here.

 

[Natebishop3]

Zach was much more developed. I think Robinson needs a lot of development. The talent is there, but the polish is lacking.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

His PER has jumped dramatically in the last 5 games; one thing about Z-Bo was that his Per36's didn't change when from his rookie values he played 36 a game after we traded Sheed, which implied he was just biding his time to get the chance to start. TRob is getting better, and it'll be interesting to see his per36's at the end of the season... but like Nate said, he's raw, where ZBo was ready as a rookie, just stuck behind Sheed.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Yeah, the styles are VERY different, but the results are similar. Zach always had great instincts and a "nose for the ball". He's not a great, or even good, leaper, but he anticipates rebounds and gets in position to grab them. Robinson relies much more on his freakish athleticism to just out jump people, but like Zach is relentless on the offensive boards. Robinson's go to offensive move seems to be the put back slam - something I don't recall Zach EVER doing. But, like Zach getting proper positioning to grab an offensive board, Robinson's put back slams also require instincts, anticipation and a "nose for the ball".

The other big difference: TRob = no Hoop Family!

BNM

 

[mook]

His PER has jumped dramatically in the last 5 games; one thing about Z-Bo was that his Per36's didn't change when from his rookie values he played 36 a game after we traded Sheed, which implied he was just biding his time to get the chance to start. TRob is getting better, and it'll be interesting to see his per36's at the end of the season...

Yeah, I guess that's where I see the comparison being really interesting. I remember thinking very, very early on that Z-bo just needed minutes and he'd be damned good. It was so frustrating watching Mo Cheeks sit on his talent, really only giving him a shot when all hope was lost in that Dallas playoff series. But we already had a very established PF in Sheed, just like we do now with LMA.

I don't feel that Robinson is destined to be a really good player yet, but the season is very young. The Sheed/Zbo and Aldridge/Robinson comparisons are there just waiting to happen if he continues to blossom.

 

[Natebishop3]

His PER has jumped dramatically in the last 5 games; one thing about Z-Bo was that his Per36's didn't change when from his rookie values he played 36 a game after we traded Sheed, which implied he was just biding his time to get the chance to start. TRob is getting better, and it'll be interesting to see his per36's at the end of the season... but like Nate said, he's raw, where ZBo was ready as a rookie, just stuck behind Sheed.

Zach was just naturally gifted as a scorer. TRob is a vastly better athlete, but Zach was just smooth. He was an insane scorer. I think TRob has the tools there. He's quick, he's athletic, and he has the ability. I just think he lacks the polish and he needs some go-to moves. You can see it every time he gets the ball. He isn't sure what to do, so he tries to make something happen. Sometimes it works, sometimes it turns out to be a turnover. He just needs some help developing some moves.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

ZBO's positioning and footwork are a thing of beauty. He'll take his time to get the right position wheras T-rob kind of forces the issue a bit.

 

[Natebishop3]

ZBO's positioning and footwork are a thing of beauty. He'll take his time to get the right position wheras T-rob kind of forces the issue a bit.

Exactly. Zach had/has great footwork to go with his quickness. Robinson is just pure athleticism right now, but I think he can be much better.

 

[BBert]

A friend of mine recently pointed out that Robinson's gaudy per 36 numbers in limited minutes might reflect the coach putting him in situations where he can succeed, and that he may not achieve the same efficiency with increased minutes. Considering how 'raw' TRob is, I'd have to agree. The good news is, he is improving and all indications are that he will continue to improve. IMO, getting TRob for what we gave is one of the best moves this franchise has pulled off in some time.

 

[B-Roy]

I'm not sure I see it. Zach was/is a monster with his postwork fundamentals. Robinson seems to rely on his athleticism way too much. The talent is there, but he's much more raw than Randolph ever was. I see Robinson as more of a poor man's Blake Griffin.

 

[Eastoff]

The other big difference: TRob = no Hoop Family!

YET!

 

[Natebishop3]

A friend of mine recently pointed out that Robinson's gaudy per 36 numbers in limited minutes might reflect the coach putting him in situations where he can succeed, and that he may not achieve the same efficiency with increased minutes. Considering how 'raw' TRob is, I'd have to agree. The good news is, he is improving and all indications are that he will continue to improve. IMO, getting TRob for what we gave is one of the best moves this franchise has pulled off in some time.

The thing is, he NEEDS to be put in a position to succeed. I think much of his struggles are merely confidence. I think Stotts is trying to boost his confidence by putting him in when he can be most effective. It's a really smart decision.

With that said, he has been a huge coup for us. I think Sac and Houston will regret their decisions before it's all said and done. Hell, I'm sure Sac probably already regrets it.

 

[Eastoff]

IMO, getting TRob for what we gave is one of the best moves this franchise has pulled off in some time.

Ropez was a better trade.

 

[BBert]

The thing is, he NEEDS to be put in a position to succeed. I think much of his struggles are merely confidence. I think Stotts is trying to boost his confidence by putting him in when he can be most effective. It's a really smart decision.

With that said, he has been a huge coup for us. I think Sac and Houston will regret their decisions before it's all said and done. Hell, I'm sure Sac probably already regrets it.

True dat. An dat. An dat.

 

[magnifier661]

ZBO's positioning and footwork are a thing of beauty. He'll take his time to get the right position wheras T-rob kind of forces the issue a bit.

I do believe that was something he kept developing throughout his career. Not saying T. Rob will develop them, but Zach wasn't born into the NBA with great footwork. Also, his injury forced him to work on less "physical talent" type positioning. Meaning, when he realize he wouldn't be able to dominate through his physical talent, he developed a fundamental trait to abuse the paint.

I think Zach has a better "instinct" than T. Rob will ever have, but I do like what I've seen from T. Rob. The dude is almost getting a board a minute and definitely getting a point a minute played. That is truly efficient!

 

[Boob-No-More]

Yeah, I guess that's where I see the comparison being really interesting. I remember thinking very, very early on that Z-bo just needed minutes and he'd be damned good. It was so frustrating watching Mo Cheeks sit on his talent, really only giving him a shot when all hope was lost in that Dallas playoff series. But we already had a very established PF in Sheed, just like we do now with LMA.

The difference was, Sheed could also play the 3. We had the same logjam at the 4 with Sheed and Brian Grant, but Dunleavy found a way to play them both and utilize their strengths. Think about it. Sheed was always a weak rebounder who preferred to roam the perimeter and jack up 3-pointers. Zach as all about rebounding and low post scoring. The two complimented each other nicely. A front court of Sabonis, Zach and Sheed, on a regular basis would have been awesome. Unfortunately, it took Cheeks until Game 4 of that Dallas series to start Zach, move Sheed to the 3 and Bonzi to the 2 (in place of Derek Anderson/Antonio Daniels) and until Game 7 to start Sabas over Dale Davis). I know some of the players were dinged up in that series, but Cheeks had SO MUCH talent, and so much versatility, we should have won that series. We should have never let Dallas jump out to that 3-0 lead. Just playing Zach more 17 MPG in those first 3 games would have helped.

BNM

 

[blue9]

Exactly. Zach had/has great footwork to go with his quickness. Robinson is just pure athleticism right now, but I think he can be much better.

I hear what you're saying, and agree with it. But I also see evidence of Robinson having natural coordination. His body-control isn't smooth like Zach, but he does have good body-control. I think it comes off a little rougher than it actually is because he's over-thinking - he's trying to make his move happen half a second ago, rather than in the moment.
Can we get a big-man coach already?

 

[magnifier661]

The difference was, Sheed could also play the 3. We had the same logjam at the 4 with Sheed and Brian Grant, but Dunleavy found a way to play them both and utilize their strengths. Think about it. Sheed was always a weak rebounder who preferred to roam the perimeter and jack up 3-pointers. Zach as all about rebounding and low post scoring. The two complimented each other nicely. A front court of Sabonis, Zach and Sheed, on a regular basis would have been awesome. Unfortunately, it took Cheeks until Game 4 of that Dallas series to start Zach, move Sheed to the 3 and Bonzi to the 2 (in place of Derek Anderson/Antonio Daniels) and until Game 7 to start Sabas over Dale Davis). I know some of the players were dinged up in that series, but Cheeks had SO MUCH talent, and so much versatility, we should have won that series. We should have never let Dallas jump out to that 3-0 lead. Just playing Zach more 17 MPG in those first 3 games would have helped.

BNM

I wish we could have had a full season with Zach and Sheed being the starters. I was soooo bummed when we made that mid-season trade with Atlanta

 

[Natebishop3]

I hear what you're saying, and agree with it. But I also see evidence of Robinson having natural coordination. His body-control isn't smooth like Zach, but he does have good body-control. I think it comes off a little rougher than it actually is because he's over-thinking - he's trying to make his move happen half a second ago, rather than in the moment.
Can we get a big-man coach already?

We need a good big man coach in the worst way.

 

[B-Roy]

The thing is, he NEEDS to be put in a position to succeed. I think much of his struggles are merely confidence. I think Stotts is trying to boost his confidence by putting him in when he can be most effective. It's a really smart decision.

With that said, he has been a huge coup for us. I think Sac and Houston will regret their decisions before it's all said and done. Hell, I'm sure Sac probably already regrets it.

I think Robinson could do with more minutes. He's actually average less minutes than he was with Houston and Sacramento. Despite that, his usage rate is up, his turnovers rate is down, and he's been slightly more efficient. He's not a great player yet, but it's encouraging to see that he's trending in the right direction. He still takes too many stupid fouls, and has trouble finishing at the rim though.

God forbid LMA goes down, but honestly I almost don't mind if LMA were to miss a few games. I'm curious to see what TRob could do with starter minutes.

 

[magnifier661]

We need a good big man coach in the worst way.

I second that

 

[Boob-No-More]

I definitely like the way Stotts is using TRob. In SAC, and perhaps HOU, he was expected to live up to his high draft position. A lot of pressure and expected to do too much too soon. Here, he's been given a fresh start and a role more in tune to his current state of development. The guy has tons of raw talent and athleticism. He just needs time to develop without excessive pressure or unrealistic expectations. Stotts is managing that perfectly - and getting great production out of Robinson as well.

BNM

 

[Mediocre Man]

Zach's offensive low post game was incredibly polished coming out of college.

T-Rob may never be that polished, but may make up for it with his superior athleticism.

the one thing I'd like to see is his improvement on slowing the hell down around the basket

 

[illmatic99]

6/4 in 12 mins is solid work. I love his energy-- it's exactly what we need from our bench. How many years have we desperately looked for that backup PF for LA? And he's definitely improving with every game.

HOU might regret this as much as they did the Batum trade.

 

[magnifier661]

I definitely like the way Stotts is using TRob. In SAC, and perhaps HOU, he was expected to live up to his high draft position. A lot of pressure and expected to do too much too soon. Here, he's been given a fresh start and a role more in tune to his current state of development. The guy has tons of raw talent and athleticism. He just needs time to develop without excessive pressure or unrealistic expectations. Stotts is managing that perfectly - and getting great production out of Robinson as well.

BNM

I agree. I think the biggest problem with T. Rob is when he thinks too much. If he settles down and plays loose like he would in the playground, he would be a beast. We already have our franchise players and T. Rob is in a perfect environment. He can slowly develop without the pressure to live up to the hype. Hopefully Stotts and the rest of the team is doing their part to instill this philosophy in him.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

I think a better comparison (ceiling?) is Detroit Antonio McDyess.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Zach's offensive low post game was incredibly polished coming out of college.

T-Rob may never be that polished, but may make up for it with his superior athleticism.

the one thing I'd like to see is his improvement on slowing the hell down around the basket

I agree with all of this.

 

[Samuel]

I remember ZBo used to have an incredible knack for coming up with the ball and had an elite ability (and I mean elite) of using the glass and twirling the ball into the hoop on putbacks. Robinson doesn't appear to have any of this touch around the hoop, and if I were an assistant coach I'd stick T-Rob under the hoop and have him shoot layups and complete dunks with pads in his face ad infinitum.

I love his hustle and energy, though. Just please: no more spin moves into traffic. Might work at Kansas but doesn't work at this level.

 

[riverman]

We need a good big man coach in the worst way.

Joel Przybilla ring a bell? He's not working these days. I always wanted Laimbeer on our bench for that reason.

 

[riverman]

I think a better comparison (ceiling?) is Detroit Antonio McDyess.

Pre knee surgery McDyess for sure. Young McDyess in his Denver years would be incredible! I just hope he learns to play defense like Charles Oakley though.