Thorn Demanded Two First Round Picks in Any Kidd Deal

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetsDaily)</div><div class='quotemain'>David Moore of the Dallas Morning News, in a yet another discussion of the Jason Kidd trade, writes that if Dallas hadn’t agreed to send a second first round pick to New Jersey, Rod Thorn wouldn’t have given up Kidd. A young player and two first round picks were the price of admission to even talk about Kidd, writes Moore. Meanwhile, Paul Forrester of SI thinks Devin Harris could regret signing a 5 year, $43 million deal last year, that his new role with the Nets makes him more valuable.</div>

Mavericks Q&A - David Moore - Dallas Morning News

Draft class of '04 faces tough decisions about future - Paul Forrester - Sports Illustrated

I like that Thorn demanded that much. I'm much happier knowing we didn't settle for just one future 1st rounder - it gives us much better flexibility and the possibility of improving in the draft.

Oh, and at this point, Devin's contract seems like a complete steal. If he can keep up this play, total steal.

 

[Netted]

That contract is what I hope can enable this team to add a player like Brand and not need to move Carter or Jefferson. If the Nets can convince Brand to play here and take $75mm over 5 yrs (a flat $15mm a year) then we have a starting lineup of:

EB: $15.0
VC: $14.7
RJ: $13.2
DH: $7.0
JB: $1.2

Total: $51.1 million. That compares to this seasons opening starting lineup of $53.2 million. They can even go up to $16mm/year for Brand.

A package of Marcus, Nenad, 2009 1st rd, Swift, Hassell and cash should make the Clips happy. It's better than what Memphis got for Gasol. 2 young players (one a pg, the other a big) a pick, expiring (Swift) and cash to compensate for Hassell's additional year. Nets won't need 2009 pick because they'll have 3 rookies this year and 2 picks in 2011.

This team could win now with that move and still have young talent in Harris, Sean, Boone, Diop, and 3 rookies. That's a move right out of what the Celtics did this summer.

 

[cpawfan]

The Gasol deal was a special set of circumstances. To me, any trade that uses the reasoning, "Its better than what Memphis got for Gasol" is complete non-starter

 

[Netted]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Apr 3 2008, 09:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Gasol deal was a special set of circumstances. To me, any trade that uses the reasoning, "Its better than what Memphis got for Gasol" is complete non-starter</div>
So if someone suggested Garnett for Brand and said it was "better than the Gasol deal" it would still be a non-starter? Stop being cute and criticize the package not the description.

And don't forget this assumes Brand opts out and the Clips would be happy to facilitate a sign and trade and get something rather than have him sign with a team under the cap like Miami and get nothing.

 

[cpawfan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Apr 3 2008, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Apr 3 2008, 09:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Gasol deal was a special set of circumstances. To me, any trade that uses the reasoning, "Its better than what Memphis got for Gasol" is complete non-starter</div>
So if someone suggested Garnett for Brand and said it was "better than the Gasol deal" it would still be a non-starter? Stop being cute and criticize the package not the description.

And don't forget this assumes Brand opts out and the Clips would be happy to facilitate a sign and trade and get something rather than have him sign with a team under the cap like Miami and get nothing.
</div>

Come on, you know there is a difference between just saying something and using it as justification.

If Brand opts out, Maggette will as well, which will put the Clippers significantly under the cap. With Kaman already locked into a long term contract, why would the Clippers 1) want Krstic and 2) want to use up cap space on Stro and Hassell?

I don't believe a combination of Marcus, Sean and a 20's first round pick has that much value.

 

[Netted]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Apr 3 2008, 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Apr 3 2008, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Apr 3 2008, 09:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Gasol deal was a special set of circumstances. To me, any trade that uses the reasoning, "Its better than what Memphis got for Gasol" is complete non-starter</div>
So if someone suggested Garnett for Brand and said it was "better than the Gasol deal" it would still be a non-starter? Stop being cute and criticize the package not the description.

And don't forget this assumes Brand opts out and the Clips would be happy to facilitate a sign and trade and get something rather than have him sign with a team under the cap like Miami and get nothing.
</div>

Come on, you know there is a difference between just saying something and using it as justification.

If Brand opts out, Maggette will as well, which will put the Clippers significantly under the cap. With Kaman already locked into a long term contract, why would the Clippers 1) want Krstic and 2) want to use up cap space on Stro and Hassell?

I don't believe a combination of Marcus, Sean and a 20's first round pick has that much value.
</div>
Didn't mean it as justification, but I could see how you could have read it that way.

I think the Clips want to keep one of the two. Maybe they will want to save their cap space for the following year?

Not sure how it will all play out, but I would go after him and convince him this is where he needs to play to win a championship and then see if I could work something out. Once the wheels are in motion for something to go a certain way, teams tend to find a way (see Kidd to Dallas, Lewis to Orlando, Martin to Denver, etc...). Can't assume it can't happen and not attempt. Now more than ever the Nets have the room and the assets to get something like this done.

 

[cpawfan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Apr 3 2008, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Not sure how it will all play out, but I would go after him and convince him this is where he needs to play to win a championship and then see if I could work something out. Once the wheels are in motion for something to go a certain way, teams tend to find a way (see Kidd to Dallas, Lewis to Orlando, Martin to Denver, etc...). Can't assume it can't happen and not attempt. Now more than ever the Nets have the room and the assets to get something like this done.</div>

In the scenarios you just talked about, the acquiring team overpaid. When is the last time Thorn overpaid in a trade?

 

[Netted]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Apr 3 2008, 10:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Apr 3 2008, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Not sure how it will all play out, but I would go after him and convince him this is where he needs to play to win a championship and then see if I could work something out. Once the wheels are in motion for something to go a certain way, teams tend to find a way (see Kidd to Dallas, Lewis to Orlando, Martin to Denver, etc...). Can't assume it can't happen and not attempt. Now more than ever the Nets have the room and the assets to get something like this done.</div>

In the scenarios you just talked about, the acquiring team overpaid. When is the last time Thorn overpaid in a trade?
</div>
Thorn never acquired a big in a trade either. Due to his current economic flexibility it could be possible. You look at Boston with Garnett, Allen, and Pierce and say to yourself can a team with Brand, Carter, Jefferson, and Harris compete on that level with the appropriate surrounding cast? If so, you try to make it happen. You don't know what it's going to cost until you're in the negotiations. To assume otherwise is a lost opportunity.

 

[Petey]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Apr 3 2008, 11:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Apr 3 2008, 10:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Apr 3 2008, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Not sure how it will all play out, but I would go after him and convince him this is where he needs to play to win a championship and then see if I could work something out. Once the wheels are in motion for something to go a certain way, teams tend to find a way (see Kidd to Dallas, Lewis to Orlando, Martin to Denver, etc...). Can't assume it can't happen and not attempt. Now more than ever the Nets have the room and the assets to get something like this done.</div>

In the scenarios you just talked about, the acquiring team overpaid. When is the last time Thorn overpaid in a trade?
</div>
Thorn never acquired a big in a trade either. Due to his current economic flexibility it could be possible. You look at Boston with Garnett, Allen, and Pierce and say to yourself can a team with Brand, Carter, Jefferson, and Harris compete on that level with the appropriate surrounding cast? If so, you try to make it happen. You don't know what it's going to cost until you're in the negotiations. To assume otherwise is a lost opportunity.
</div>

If you can get Brand for a package that doesn't include Harris, Jefferson, Carter, do it. Good blocks (Brand & Harris) for Brooklyn at worst.

-Petey

 

[danxcr]

ok if we can get brand for those mentioned above... it would be amazing...

to have:
pg harris / free agent signing
sg carter / draft pick?
sf jefferson / ager
pf brand / swat / hassell / draft pick?
c boone / diop (if resigned)

that would be the make of the team... assuming we dont resign inconsistent back boki nachbar

but in all honesty... even if we get brand, and we still have frank as a coach... he will sit brand cuz hes a moron!

 

[pegs]

Frank would not sit Brand. He wants to win.

And Hassel should never, ever be at PF ever against with those bigs.

 

[Netted]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danxcr @ Apr 3 2008, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>ok if we can get brand for those mentioned above... it would be amazing...

to have:
pg harris / free agent signing
sg carter / draft pick?
sf jefferson / ager
pf brand / swat / hassell / draft pick?
c boone / diop (if resigned)

that would be the make of the team... assuming we dont resign inconsistent back boki nachbar

but in all honesty... even if we get brand, and we still have frank as a coach... he will sit brand cuz hes a moron!</div>
I wouldn't be adverse to re-uping Nachbar at $9-10mm over 3 years. I'd assume the back thing was an issue, but I would also use the MLE to get another solid wing player so I wasn't as dependent on him as I was this year. Guess it really depends on the wing I draft. If I draft Batum I wouldn't keep him. If I draft OJ Mayo I would keep him.

 

[Jizzy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Apr 3 2008, 09:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That contract is what I hope can enable this team to add a player like Brand and not need to move Carter or Jefferson. If the Nets can convince Brand to play here and take $75mm over 5 yrs (a flat $15mm a year) then we have a starting lineup of:

EB: $15.0
VC: $14.7
RJ: $13.2
DH: $7.0
JB: $1.2

Total: $51.1 million. That compares to this seasons opening starting lineup of $53.2 million. They can even go up to $16mm/year for Brand.

A package of Marcus, Nenad, 2009 1st rd, Swift, Hassell and cash should make the Clips happy. It's better than what Memphis got for Gasol. 2 young players (one a pg, the other a big) a pick, expiring (Swift) and cash to compensate for Hassell's additional year. Nets won't need 2009 pick because they'll have 3 rookies this year and 2 picks in 2011.

This team could win now with that move and still have young talent in Harris, Sean, Boone, Diop, and 3 rookies. That's a move right out of what the Celtics did this summer.</div>

netted makes another excellent point. i like your posts.

i'd give up sean if they dont want krstic, honestly for brand

 

[danxcr]

i wouldnt give up sean... he has so much potential... i wana give him 1 more season and i wanna see what he does in the off season... and how much work he puts into it to becoming the best nba player he can be