Time to start over - Blow this thing up

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RR7 said:
Dallas never tore down their team, and tried drafting lottery picks, as proposed. That would have been trading Dirk. They continued to add talent, and then look to upgrade that talent with other players in their prime. Similar to us adding Miller, and then upgrading him to Felton. Adding Wallace. Adding Camby. We're basically on that same road, intentionally or not.
In fact, Dallas traded AWAY young talent(Harris and picks) to get to where they are now. The main constant with them was upgrading talent, which is what we need to continue to do. And it may take a couple of years to find the right fits around the one player you are building around, but it's the primary option we have currently.
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I think you guys are all missing the point... Dallas has Dirk. SA has Duncan. We have LaMarcus.

LaMarcus is no Dirk or Duncan. We are not going to win a ring with LaMarcus as our best player, it will not happen.
 
Hank is largely correct. My opinion is dump everyone but Aldridge and perhaps Batum if he re-signs cheaply enough. We'll suck, but if we can get multiple draft picks in 2012, perhaps it won't take five years to turn around.

It's tough to break the mediocrity trap in the NBA.
 
Where did I say we're winning the title this season? Did Dallas win a title before last season? how many times did they swap out on part for another to get them there?
I don't think we're winning a title with that group. But we weren't with Miller, Blake, Outlaw, Joel and dante. So i'd say from two years ago to now, we've upgraded THOSE pieces into better talent. The key is continuing that process.
 
People who say tear it down don't get it. They end up becoming the biggest whiners out there when the team is dreadful for 5 years. They then stop watching the team until a guy like Durant is drafted. Then they know everything again.

This team/franchise needs a plan and a quality gm who can make one sided trades. Go find ways to get a star next to LA. Then just add some nice pieces around it with all the upcoming cap space. The Blazers aren't some scrub franchise like the freaking bobcats. This fan base has pride and wants to win. Tanking is easy way out with no guarantees except lotto hell for 3-5 years. Bad and lazy idea.
 
He brought up some good points, but he lost me at...."HOPE TO GET A SUPERSTAR". C'Mon.....
 
What is peoples problem with seeing how this team does this year? We have a new pg a full year of crash a healthy wes and a supposed improved batum while all we lost was a hobbeled roy. We have a great core that is only really missing a big defensive center to take over for camby. We have a lot of trade options come the trade deadline. I for one see a loot of pitential that could be realized with one or two moves to net us a big.
 
and dont forget we dont have a 1st rounder in 2013.

with that said, should we have major injuries and not have a shot at post season play at the deadline, move guys like camby/wallace for a 1st round pick since its a great draft class. Then go shopping next summer.
 
Holy Crap Hank!! This takes me back to some O-Live days!
 
maxiep said:
Hank is largely correct. My opinion is dump everyone but Aldridge and perhaps Batum if he re-signs cheaply enough. We'll suck, but if we can get multiple draft picks in 2012, perhaps it won't take five years to turn around.

It's tough to break the mediocrity trap in the NBA.
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so we are counting on ONE draft and we don't have next years either - NO thank U
 
Brock said:
People who say tear it down don't get it. They end up becoming the biggest whiners out there when the team is dreadful for 5 years. They then stop watching the team until a guy like Durant is drafted. Then they know everything again.

This team/franchise needs a plan and a quality gm who can make one sided trades. Go find ways to get a star next to LA. Then just add some nice pieces around it with all the upcoming cap space. The Blazers aren't some scrub franchise like the freaking bobcats. This fan base has pride and wants to win. Tanking is easy way out with no guarantees except lotto hell for 3-5 years. Bad and lazy idea.
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There are 2 options for Portland.

1) Tear it down and start over again. This does not have to mean gutting the team, we could get lucky and have LMA sit out a year due to his heart condition and then come back 100% healthy next year with a top 5 pick.

2) Go back to the old days of overspending on FA's and making lopsided trades for washed up ex-allstars and hope to have a 1-2 year window at it.

I would prefer blowing it up and trying to build it organically, but thats just me.
 
RR7 said:
Dallas never tore down their team, and tried drafting lottery picks, as proposed. That would have been trading Dirk. They continued to add talent, and then look to upgrade that talent with other players in their prime. Similar to us adding Miller, and then upgrading him to Felton. Adding Wallace. Adding Camby. We're basically on that same road, intentionally or not.
In fact, Dallas traded AWAY young talent(Harris and picks) to get to where they are now. The main constant with them was upgrading talent, which is what we need to continue to do. And it may take a couple of years to find the right fits around the one player you are building around, but it's the primary option we have currently.
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Dallas also has Mark Cuban, a man that actually cares about his team getting better!
 
Todd said:
Dallas also has Mark Cuban, a man that actually cares about his team getting better!
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because he just won a title. A year or two ago, people seemed to be ripping him as much as they are Paul now. Too involved with the team, when he should just let his hired front offic make decisions, too impulsive, etc.
 
Is the pick we traded in 2013 protected?

Ed O.
 
Brock said:
People who say tear it down don't get it. They end up becoming the biggest whiners out there when the team is dreadful for 5 years. They then stop watching the team until a guy like Durant is drafted. Then they know everything again.

This team/franchise needs a plan and a quality gm who can make one sided trades. Go find ways to get a star next to LA. Then just add some nice pieces around it with all the upcoming cap space. The Blazers aren't some scrub franchise like the freaking bobcats. This fan base has pride and wants to win. Tanking is easy way out with no guarantees except lotto hell for 3-5 years. Bad and lazy idea.
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Hank will confirm that I was far too patient with our last rebuild. I was very much in favor of Oden, and still think he can contribute. What I don't like is our middling talent that is older and overpaid. If your team is starting Wes Matthews, you have problems.
 
A starter putting up 16-3-2-1, with decent D at the 2 and 3, while shooting over 40% from 3 means you have problems? especially at 24 years old? I don't get that.
 
Blazinaway said:
so we are counting on ONE draft and we don't have next years either - NO thank U
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That's why we trade our assets. For future draft picks and cap space. We then hope we draft well and also hope if we overpay a great player, they'll come here.
 
RR7 said:
A starter putting up 16-3-2-1, with decent D at the 2 and 3, while shooting over 40% from 3 means you have problems? especially at 24 years old? I don't get that.
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Wes Matthews is a solid backup. He doesn't help get you deep into the playoffs.
 
maxiep said:
Wes Matthews is a solid backup. He doesn't help get you deep into the playoffs.
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He is, IMO, an average starting 2 guard in the NBA... which is OK, but not good enough to bring your team anywhere. If we have three average starters, two above-average starters and no bench? That's borderline playoff team.

And that's where we are, IMO.

Which would be OK if we had young players with big upside in our pipeline... but we don't. It looks at this point like we've squandered every pick since Batum.

Ed O.
 
There is absolutely no need to tear this team down nothing and start over again, IMO. The Blazers have some at least three very good players in Aldridge, Wallace and Batum. They can have a ton of cap room for the summer that will give them all kinds of flexibility to sign FAs or to make unbalanced trades. Get a GM who's halfway competent and this team should be really solid next year.
 
No need to blow anything up. Just decline some contract extensions next year, and we're like 25-30 mil under the cap.

Who are the big name 2012 FAs (outside of CP and Dwight)?
 
yuyuza1 said:
No need to blow anything up. Just decline some contract extensions next year, and we're like 25-30 mil under the cap.

Who are the big name 2012 FAs (outside of CP and Dwight)?
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I guess you guys just are not paying attention. The big name FA's are following LeBron's lead and trying to form superteams. We will not be able to land a top FA in their prime.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Championship caliber

SA
CLE
MIA
LAL
OKC
CHI
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San Antonio didn't tear their team down nor did LA. In fact, LA was the epitome of "good but not great" until West shuffled some pieces to first fit Shaquille O'Neal in (before the big changes limiting free agent movement) and then dealing Divac for Kobe Bryant. The most recent edition of the Lakers was also "good but not great" until they made the Pau Gasol trade.

Oklahoma City and Chicago haven't yet proven to be championship-caliber and I wouldn't agree that Chicago purposely destroyed their team for cap room and lottery picks. Cleveland did and it only took them about 10-15 years to make it work (and they didn't win a title out of it). Miami is about the only team that truly tanked and made it pay off in anything like a timely manner (I'll assume they win a title before this core is finished in Miami)...and Miami already had Wade, so even them it's very arguable that they blew it all up. Miami is also not remotely a "blueprint" that any other team can even hope to succeed with except perhaps LA. Portland isn't going to attract two blue chip free agents, even if we count Aldridge as "Portland's Dwyane Wade" (and Aldridge isn't close to Wade's caliber of player).

I don't think any team has really made "blowing up the team" (i.e. purposely weakening the team's talent) work in terms of turning it into an elite (championship) team in a reasonable time frame...except maybe Miami.

And saying "Even Boston and Dallas have built their teams around lotto picks" is changing the argument in a very silly way...yes, KG was a "lotto pick"...he wasn't a lotto pick by Boston. I'm all for Portland trading for a prime superstar who was once a lottery pick.
 
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Hank The Dwarf said:
We are not going to win a ring with LaMarcus as our best player, it will not happen.
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I love speculation disguised in a definitive statement, it makes me want to get all freaky-deaky
 
Whatever they do, it's going to take some shrewd trades and likely hitting on a couple of draft picks, which usually means lottery picks and I don't really care how they acquire them -- players for picks, by virtue of a bad record, etc. -- so that brings up the elephant in the room. Right now it looks like either Allen himself or Bert Kolde are running the show, with heavy input from Nate and Larry Miller ... and since I've taken a vow of positivism this year I'll end my commentary here.
 
Some semi-recent lotto picks who, maybe, we'd be able to acquire in the low risk, high reward thinking, if it's lotto picks you're looking for on the team:

Andrea Bargnani
Tyrus Thomas
Jeff Green
Yi jianlian
Corey Brewer
Spencer Hawes
Michael Beasley
OJ Mayo
Hasheem Thabeet
Johnny Flynn
Jordan Hill
Earl Clark
 
Nikolokolus said:
Whatever they do, it's going to take some shrewd trades and likely hitting on a couple of draft picks, which usually means lottery picks and I don't really care how they acquire them -- players for picks, by virtue of a bad record, etc. -- so that brings up the elephant in the room. Right now it looks like either Allen himself or Bert Kolde are running the show, with heavy input from Nate and Larry Miller ... and since I've taken a vow of positivism this year I'll end my commentary here.
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If you don't think the front office is capable of making the right moves (and I'm not saying you're wrong, necessarily) then it doesn't matter what strategy the team employs...success always requires smart moves by the front office. In that case, Portland may as well keep this group together, because a decent team that can win about 50 games and make the playoffs is a lot more fun to watch than a terrible team.
 
If you keep blowing up every team that is not good enough to win a title, you'll just suck forever.
 
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