Tough weekend vs Jays, might as well take a look at bashing the "PLAN"

[blgridesagain]

Let's FIRST start at the BEGINNING- coming into this season the consensus in the media and "elsewhere" was the Yanks would not win the division and would win somewhere between 81-88 games....and very few even went as high as 88 wins.

Yanks are currently still hanging onto first place but of course if their hitting goes into the tank the rest of the way, they just might finish in mediocrity.


This "plan" everyone always seems to be finding fault with and bashing Cashman is - I believe - alluding to his statements about trying to have the Yanks getting YOUNGER and more ATHLETIC.

Now if "we" care to look at the regulars who are under contract and were expecting or hoping to be in the starting lineup before the season began we see:
Ellsbury, Gardner, Tex, Beltran, Drew, McCann, Arod and Headley.

I'd like to see someone put their cards on the table and tell us which of THOSE were supposed to be replaced or exchanged with....WHO?
(I'm listening)....but I'll later address it for those who may have trouble coming up with real live players with names. lol

Now some wanted Prado instead of Headley, fair enough personal choice, but it still wasn't going to make the Yankees YOUNGER and more ATHLETIC....the Yanks were STILL going to need someone to play 2b or 3b if they chose Prado.

The one fault/problem I can see fairly is with STAYING with Drew instead of Refsnyder and I hope I'm wrong but, he has made 17-18 errors at AAA and I'm afraid he just MIGHT be too much of a liability and dangerous defensively to be used as a regular 2b and I would think he and the Yanks would be better served at this point to have him continue his regular "work" at AAA.

Next- Beltran. Some wanted Judge (believe it or not) to be the regular RF instead of Beltran as he was just promoted to AAA this season.
So far this year at AAA, Judge, 127 AB, .236 BA, 4HRs,15 RBI , 40 K, .706 OPS.
Any questions? lol. Oh, I forgot, Chris Young a backup outfielder and is hitting .348 with 1.060 OPS vs LHP .....for 2.5 mil? Not too shabby.
Aw shucks....he's not younger and more athletic than your basic backup outfielder.

Next- the most glaring AND obvious "need"/replacement was SS after Jeter retired.
And as of now, in one of the most important preseason question marks and turning point in "recent" Yankee history with Jeter retiring- Cashman made a trade involving the almighty Dombrowski and acquired Didi Gregorius for Shane Greene.
Gregorius is presently batting .261, and - after his first two months (April, May) of struggling, he has made just 4 errors (10 total) as the everyday shortstop while Greene has 6.88 ERA and 1.54 WHIP.


Pitching? Younger?
Yanks started three pitchers in this series vs Toronto with an average age of 26 with Nova being the oldest at 28 (Jan) and these 3 SP pitched 17.2 IP with an ERA of 3.66 over the series.

Yanks used five pitchers today, none older than 27 and average age was 26.2!
This also included Chasen Shreve 25 yrs old, and Justin Wilson 27.
For the season:
Shreve- 2.06 ERA, 1.01 WHIP, 47 K in 43.2 IP (acquired for Banuelos)
Wilson- 2.43 ERA, 1.06 WHIP 43K in 40.2 IP (acquired for Cervelli)
Both have been effective vs LH and RH batters.

Just to keep up with the YOUNGER and more ATHLETIC "plan"....
Cervelli 29 yrs old, was replaced by John Ryan Murphy as the backup catcher.
Murphy currently has a .270 career BA and is batting .288.....
AND he's 24 years old.


Back the Gregorius trade. Keep in mind this is his first season getting the chance as an everyday SS and finding a SS after Jeter was quite important, to say the least.
He could go either of three directions:
Slide back to being an erratic defensive SS hitting .230-ish.
Being the current .260-ish hitter and having made just 4 errors since the end of May.
Improve and become better with more experience and possibly, maybe being one of the best YOUNG shortstops in the A.L. at 25 yrs old.

This trade SO FAR, is looking VERY GOOD and could go down as one of the best deals/steals in recent Yankee history.

And just for the record....unless I missed something, the LAST trade Cashman made with Dombrowski was the Yanks acquiring Granderson by giving up Phil Coke, Ian Kennedy and Austin Jackson.

Grandy went on to become one of the Yanks absolute best players and HR hitters and if anyone thought Austin Jackson was the Yanks' answer to be their "future" CF, they should go back and look at Jackson's stats with Detroit- .274 BA- averaging 9 HR, 50 RBI, 152 Ks per season with a .738 OPS.

Yanks/Cashman got a much better return in Grandy for Jackson,Kennedy and Coke.
Dombrowski might have "fleeced" someone else in that trade, but it wasn't the Yanks/CASHMAN!


Bottom line- Yanks still very much alive in the race and ARE still in position to get YOUNGER and more ATHLETIC in the near future having NOT traded a single TOP or "good" prospect.

 

[Messiah717]

I don't really see the need to repeat in a stand alone post what you already put into the game thread already. Really serves no purpose. That being said I'll say it again. Even the 90s dynasty teams made deadline moves and those teams were much better. Don't sit here and tell me that the only thing that was lacking it Refsynder coming up to replace Drew and then why they didn't do it. You look to upgrade the position anyway you can. Getting back to improving even the Royals who went to the World Series last year made moves to improve their chances at another run.

The bottom line is that after what just happened this weekend this is not the time be on your knees blowing Brian Cashman and the Yankee Organization.

 

[blgridesagain]

I don't really see the need to repeat in a stand alone post what you already put into the game thread already. Really serves no purpose. That being said I'll say it again. Even the 90s dynasty teams made deadline moves and those teams were much better. Don't sit here and tell me that the only thing that was lacking it Refsynder coming up to replace Drew and then why they didn't do it. You look to upgrade the position anyway you can. Getting back to improving even the Royals who went to the World Series last year made moves to improve their chances at another run.

The bottom line is that after what just happened this weekend this is not the time be on your knees blowing Brian Cashman and the Yankee Organization.

Mess, you obviously can see I am trying to counter, question and pinpoint the incessant, sometimes maniacal (imo), cheesy (imo) Cashman "bashing" and what alternatives and more precise "preferences" those with the most criticism had in mind.
Of course I find fault with Cashman over some things and I have no personal stake in it as I'm not related to Cashman, nor did I hire him, lol

But I believe for the sake of discussion and pertinance- some of my comments and observations regarding Cashman and his "plan" are worth addressing....not for MY sake...but just for clarification purposes.

As the saying goes- talk is cheap.

This topic is kinda what it's all about excluding the day by day reaction of particular games.

It's all good. I enjoy it.
Still a very entertaining fun season.....and with this sweep by Toronto, it adds more pressure which translates into more "fun" ...imo.

 

[Messiah717]

One run in 26 innings is not fun. It was a complete embarrassment.

 

[blgridesagain]

One run in 26 innings is not fun. It was a complete embarrassment.

Agree big time- and if the hitting which has been their most consistent best asset flounders along for the better part of the remaining season, this team will probably finish in third place. But I think they'll rebound and get back on track- I hope.

More specifically, starting Tues, 8/11 with a 6 game road trip 3 @ Cleve and Toronto and a stretch of 16 straight games with no off days.
While Yanks are playing in Cleve, the Jays will be hosting the A's, then Yanks/Jays play head to head in Toronto....then the fun continues, a huge 10 game homestand where the Yanks MUST have at least a winning (6-4) homestand vs Minn(3), Cleve(4) and Houston(3) ending on August 26....then an off day.

If the Yanks want a "good" reasonable chance of winning this thing, they had better NOT stumble on this immediate stretch of games because starting Sept 4, the schedule is VERY TOUGH and looks kinda brutal loaded with games vs TB,Balt,Tor, Mets and more Toronto.
Aside from the division rivals in Sept, the thought of possibly running into the Mets' trio of good young SP as the Mets will probably also be in the hunt is not heart warming.

I would advise the Yanks to immediately begin to WIN as many games as soon as possible. I don't think it's realistic to expect the Yanks to win a good majority of those Sept games vs those teams. Just stay "close" and we'll take our chances come September.

 

[Hammerojustice]

I don't really see the need to repeat in a stand alone post what you already put into the game thread already. Really serves no purpose. That being said I'll say it again. Even the 90s dynasty teams made deadline moves and those teams were much better. Don't sit here and tell me that the only thing that was lacking it Refsynder coming up to replace Drew and then why they didn't do it. You look to upgrade the position anyway you can. Getting back to improving even the Royals who went to the World Series last year made moves to improve their chances at another run.

The bottom line is that after what just happened this weekend this is not the time be on your knees blowing Brian Cashman and the Yankee Organization.

Hear hear

 

[Yankeefan5545]

Don't worry, I heard the Yankees are on the" list " to acquire Chase Utley. Won't that be wonderful, a 36 year old 2d baseman coming off the DL. If the box scores were as correct on attendance as they were on game results those 120K plus fans should have stormed Cashmans office, dragged him into the street and trampled him into the ground.

 

[Rick2583]

[QUOTE="Messiah717, post: 3693630, member: 27816"]One run in 26 innings is not fun. It was a complete embarrassment.[/QUOTE]


Thank you Vic.

 

[Yankeefan5545]

I don't really see the need to repeat in a stand alone post what you already put into the game thread already. Really serves no purpose. That being said I'll say it again. Even the 90s dynasty teams made deadline moves and those teams were much better. Don't sit here and tell me that the only thing that was lacking it Refsynder coming up to replace Drew and then why they didn't do it. You look to upgrade the position anyway you can. Getting back to improving even the Royals who went to the World Series last year made moves to improve their chances at another run.

The bottom line is that after what just happened this weekend this is not the time be on your knees blowing Brian Cashman and the Yankee Organization.

I've been a fan of this team since '55 and for the most part the Yankees stayed top dog because they always made the moves necessary to improve their lot. Yes some years were dry spots but for the most part they always handles the what ifs. Beyond shadow of doubt in 2015 the GM of this team did little to help this team along the way.

 

[Rick2583]

I've been a fan of this team since '55 and for the most part the Yankees stayed top dog because they always made the moves necessary to improve their lot. Yes some years were dry spots but for the most part they always handles the what ifs. Beyond shadow of doubt in 2015 the GM of this team did little to help this team along the way.

Michael by saying he did little is giving him to much credit, actually he did N O T H I N G!

 

[Messiah717]

Anything at all to at least attempt to improve would've been better than doing nothing. Not top flight guys where you have to give up your top prospects but an attempt to fortify the team in some way. The one useless move for Ackley ends up backfiring which required grabbing a released player back off the waiver wire.

 

[Rick2583]

I'll say it again, I have no idea what the hell Hank & Hal are looking at when they see the job Cashman has done.

 

[blgridesagain]

I can certainly understand the disgust or disappointment over the Yanks not making some kind of deal which would help the team and I'm also not thrilled over it.
And I've also been around the track following the Yanks long enough to remember when they called up a kid named Stottlemyre in '64 to help them in the stretch drive.
These Yanks have also called up a kid (Severino) to help in August and I think I've heard they're going to put Warren back in the SPR to bolster the SP for this current stretch of 16 straight games/days.

Both "young" homegrown pitchers who have so far done WELL and I can't see how the Yanks could've or should've made a trade for some other SP who is "better" than the Yanks' in-house options unless we wanted to go for Price or Cueto or Hamels and I'm sorry but I just can't determine what those teams were asking in return- don't want to sound naive but I wasn't in on the discussions.

I'm definitely on board with the criticism of not finding a 2b (Refsnyder?) to replace Drew AND Ryan.

Regarding this sweep by Toronto- the facts are:
Yanks' three SP (all "young") pitched 17.2 inn and allowed 7 ER....
Eovaldi 6.1, 1 ER, Yanks lost 2-1
Nova 5.1 4 ER, Yanks lost 6-0
Tanaka 6, 2 ER, Yanks lost 2-0

Forgive me if I sound a bit sarcastic but I really am being truthful and honest when I say: from what I saw and determined from this series -
While the Yanks' offense/lineup didn't show up, Yanks were going with their regular lineup which has been very productive through the season and I don't believe -imo- they were going to replace any of them prior to this series.
AND, maybe, possibly some "new" different 2b could've helped them win at least one game...
AND, if the Yanks DID acquire some other team's middle of the rotation type "upgrade" and started him instead of Nova, they could've won at least one game.

lol.....sorry guys, I'm still going to wait until the race is over before handing out my final grade for Cashman, "the plan".....and his preseason trades and acquisitions.


And I can bash and criticize MGRs and GMs with the best of them.

 

[blgridesagain]

Hear hear

Hear Hear .... ?........I "hear" the Yanks still happen to be in first place.
C'mon now, no need for anyone to get on their knees......
Here's a gift, first place, take it while you can.

 

[Messiah717]

I can certainly understand the disgust or disappointment over the Yanks not making some kind of deal which would help the team and I'm also not thrilled over it.
And I've also been around the track following the Yanks long enough to remember when they called up a kid named Stottlemyre in '64 to help them in the stretch drive.
These Yanks have also called up a kid (Severino) to help in August and I think I've heard they're going to put Warren back in the SPR to bolster the SP for this current stretch of 16 straight games/days.

Both "young" homegrown pitchers who have so far done WELL and I can't see how the Yanks could've or should've made a trade for some other SP who is "better" than the Yanks' in-house options unless we wanted to go for Price or Cueto or Hamels and I'm sorry but I just can't determine what those teams were asking in return- don't want to sound naive but I wasn't in on the discussions.

I'm definitely on board with the criticism of not finding a 2b (Refsnyder?) to replace Drew AND Ryan.

Regarding this sweep by Toronto- the facts are:
Yanks' three SP (all "young") pitched 17.2 inn and allowed 7 ER....
Eovaldi 6.1, 1 ER, Yanks lost 2-1
Nova 5.1 4 ER, Yanks lost 6-0
Tanaka 6, 2 ER, Yanks lost 2-0

Forgive me if I sound a bit sarcastic but I really am being truthful and honest when I say: from what I saw and determined from this series -
While the Yanks' offense/lineup didn't show up, Yanks were going with their regular lineup which has been very productive through the season and I don't believe -imo- they were going to replace any of them prior to this series.
AND, maybe, possibly some "new" different 2b could've helped them win at least one game...
AND, if the Yanks DID acquire some other team's middle of the rotation type "upgrade" and started him instead of Nova, they could've won at least one game.

lol.....sorry guys, I'm still going to wait until the race is over before handing out my final grade for Cashman, "the plan".....and his preseason trades and acquisitions.


And I can bash and criticize MGRs and GMs with the best of them.

The major disgust is what Toronto came into New York and did to the Yankees. One run in the three games and a team that looked like it just simply did not show up. Not only that but Tex and his idiotic bump in the road comments makes it seem like they don't even care. Frankly I think they got overconfident with their division lead and started reading their own press clippings. We will see what team shows up against the Indians. It will be very telling.

 

[Rick2583]

I still find it amazing how EVERYONE turned cold at the same time. They better show up against the Indians or come Thursday they could be looking up at the Jays.

 

[yankeesince59]

 

[Messiah717]

Oh Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!