TPEs (Traded Player Exceptions)

[RR7]

I guess I really don’t get all of the angst by some of you over this. We spend endless amounts of board time bewailing bad contracts and wasted team cap resources, and then we get all torn up because we don’t take on another bad contract? This stopped being a viable option to get a good player after the draft. Or did you really think some team was going to part with a valuable player for nothing?

I think its twofold. One, that after getting swept in the playoffs, fans had hope that we'd make moves to try to make that next step. That thered be something to distinctly push us forward.

But, more importantly, and I think why we see the angst, is the GM doesn't have to mention our exceptions. He doesn't have to mention our aggressive owner. And he doesn't have to lay out his plan about...whatever the specific verbiage is, about guys to play in April, basically. He can be quiet and boring and then we could all sit here and hope and pray and likely still bitch,but with less to go on.

But he touted our aggressive owner. He touted the shift in plan to playoff guys, and he brought up the tpe as an asset. And at the end of the day, we lost that asset,and we'vee, so far come away with a loss of ed Davis, and an addition of seth curry to our "top 9" . The top 9 he said we were focused on improving.

No, we don't know anything offered, etc. And obviously the off season isnt over yet. But I think it's ok for fans to feel a little bummed that the TPE asset went unused, and all we have to show is like 5 more fuckingn years of Nicholson on the books.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Not sure why you guys are up in arms. I think Neil would have used the TPE if he had not gotten Sauce Castillo to sign a minimum deal.

Mark my words. Sauce will be better than Taurean Green!

 

[e_blazer]

I think its twofold. One, that after getting swept in the playoffs, fans had hope that we'd make moves to try to make that next step. That thered be something to distinctly push us forward.

But, more importantly, and I think why we see the angst, is the GM doesn't have to mention our exceptions. He doesn't have to mention our aggressive owner. And he doesn't have to lay out his plan about...whatever the specific verbiage is, about guys to play in April, basically. He can be quiet and boring and then we could all sit here and hope and pray and likely still butch,but with less to go on.

But he touted our aggressive owner. He touted the shift in plan to playoff guys, and he brought up the tpe as an asset. And at the end of the day, we lost that asset,and we'vee, so far come away with a loss of ed Davis, and an addition of seth curry to our "top 9" . The top 9 he said we were focused on improving.

No, we don't know anything offered, etc. And obviously the off season isnt over yet. But I think it's ok for fans to feel a little bummed that the TPE asset went unused, and all we have to show is like 5 more fuckingn years of Nicholson on the books.

I’ve said in other threads that I think Olshey overstated the TPE’s value, or more likely, we fans heard what we wanted to hear. Olshey said before the draft that the team needed veterans rather than rookie draft picks. I am convinced that when Olshey talked about the team being aggressive in using the TPE it was in the context of packaging it with the No. 24 pick to get a proven veteran. He’s said they made that available but there were no takers. I think too many of us took what he said farther than he intended. I don’t think he meant that the TPE would be used if the draft scenario didn’t work out.

I know we’ve proposed interesting scenarios where it could be used in creative ways, but those are always less likely in reality than they are in our fevered imaginations. At this point, we’re back to traditional trades as the only viable means of upgrading talent. I’m just hoping he can pull off a good deal before camp.

 

[RR7]

I’ve said in other threads that I think Olshey overstated the TPE’s value, or more likely, we fans heard what we wanted to hear. Olshey said before the draft that the team needed eterans rather than rookie draft picks. I am convinced that when Olshey talked about the team being aggressive in using the TPE it was in the context of packaging it with the No. 24 pick to get a proven veteran. He’s said they made that available but there were no takers. I think too many of us took what he said farther than he intended. I don’t think he meant that the TPE would be used if the draft scenario didn’t work out.

I know we’ve proposed interesting scenarios where it could be used in creative ways, but those are always less likely in reality than they are in our fevered imaginations. At this point, we’re back to traditional trades as the only viable means of upgrading talent. I’m just hoping he can pull off a good deal before camp.

I wanna say, I quoted you because you were the most recent comment, wasn't necessarily a criticism of your post, just a general response of why some are bummed, and that's ok

 

[BonesJones]

I’ve said in other threads that I think Olshey overstated the TPE’s value, or more likely, we fans heard what we wanted to hear. Olshey said before the draft that the team needed eterans rather than rookie draft picks. I am convinced that when Olshey talked about the team being aggressive in using the TPE it was in the context of packaging it with the No. 24 pick to get a proven veteran. He’s said they made that available but there were no takers. I think too many of us took what he said farther than he intended. I don’t think he meant that the TPE would be used if the draft scenario didn’t work out.

I know we’ve proposed interesting scenarios where it could be used in creative ways, but those are always less likely in reality than they are in our fevered imaginations. At this point, we’re back to traditional trades as the only viable means of upgrading talent. I’m just hoping he can pull off a good deal before camp.

He won't, this is our roster.

 

[e_blazer]

He won't, this is our roster.

Maybe. Maybe not.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I’ve said in other threads that I think Olshey overstated the TPE’s value, or more likely, we fans heard what we wanted to hear. Olshey said before the draft that the team needed veterans rather than rookie draft picks. I am convinced that when Olshey talked about the team being aggressive in using the TPE it was in the context of packaging it with the No. 24 pick to get a proven veteran. He’s said they made that available but there were no takers. I think too many of us took what he said farther than he intended. I don’t think he meant that the TPE would be used if the draft scenario didn’t work out.

I know we’ve proposed interesting scenarios where it could be used in creative ways, but those are always less likely in reality than they are in our fevered imaginations. At this point, we’re back to traditional trades as the only viable means of upgrading talent. I’m just hoping he can pull off a good deal before camp.

I hope I’m wrong but I felt like going into this summer it was going to be very boring, get a draft pick or two, let some guys go for salary cap reasons. I guess it’s good that my expectations were low, but I think draft night when they couldn’t find some way to tie the pick and TPE made me realize not much was going to happen this summer.

 

[hoopsjock]

Olshey better have a fucking miracle trade to pull out of his ass. Fuck this. You match Crabbe as an asset retention and you get negative return for him? If you didn't want to pay tax then I have a brilliant idea, don't fucking match on Crabbe in the first place.

I'm actually still a believer in Dame and CJ together but what the fuck is the point if we aren't going to go all-in to see what they could do with some actual fucking talent around them? Get them some mother fucking help or move CJ to try something different.

I really have loved having Paul Allen as an owner but why the fuck was he worried that Dame wanted a trade? He obviously doesn't give a fuck about making this team better if it costs money to do so. I miss the old Paul Allen who was willing to do whatever necessary to build a winner.

Mr Allen, since you don't give a fuck about it anyway, can I please be the GM? I'd spend every minute of every single day trying to come up with creative solutions (I already spend way too much time on this). I'm out of town this evening and don't really want to keep typing on my phone, I just wanted the people that were expecting a rant from me to know that I'm not hiding.

 

[hoopsjock]

I’ve said in other threads that I think Olshey overstated the TPE’s value, or more likely, we fans heard what we wanted to hear. Olshey said before the draft that the team needed veterans rather than rookie draft picks. I am convinced that when Olshey talked about the team being aggressive in using the TPE it was in the context of packaging it with the No. 24 pick to get a proven veteran. He’s said they made that available but there were no takers. I think too many of us took what he said farther than he intended. I don’t think he meant that the TPE would be used if the draft scenario didn’t work out.

I know we’ve proposed interesting scenarios where it could be used in creative ways, but those are always less likely in reality than they are in our fevered imaginations. At this point, we’re back to traditional trades as the only viable means of upgrading talent. I’m just hoping he can pull off a good deal before camp.

The creative scenarios were not unlikely!

Denver gave away 3 players and attached picks to all of them. Atlanta got a 2nd round pick for taking Lin. Several young guys on rookie deals were dealt to save teams money like Richaun Holmes, Justin Anderson, TLC, Nader, etc. You don't think there are any teams out there that would like to get below the tax line or have a little extra wiggle room right now?

 

[Scalma]

Richaun Holmes would’ve helped us a lot more than Stauskas. FUCK.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Olshey better have a fucking miracle trade to pull out of his ass. Fuck this. You match Crabbe as an asset retention and you get negative return for him? If you didn't want to pay tax then I have a brilliant idea, don't fucking match on Crabbe in the first place.

I'm actually still a believer in Dame and CJ together but what the fuck is the point if we aren't going to go all-in to see what they could do with some actual fucking talent around them? Get them some mother fucking help or move CJ to try something different.

I really have loved having Paul Allen as an owner but why the fuck was he worried that Dame wanted a trade? He obviously doesn't give a fuck about making this team better if it costs money to do so. I miss the old Paul Allen who was willing to do whatever necessary to build a winner.

Mr Allen, since you don't give a fuck about it anyway, can I please be the GM? I'd spend every minute of every single day trying to come up with creative solutions (I already spend way too much time on this). I'm out of town this evening and don't really want to keep typing on my phone, I just wanted the people that were expecting a rant from me to know that I'm not hiding.

Well put and wherever you find yourself this evening safe travels.

 

[BonesJones]

Maybe. Maybe not.

We can bet on it. I'm 100% certain of it.

 

[BonesJones]

Olshey better have a fucking miracle trade to pull out of his ass. Fuck this. You match Crabbe as an asset retention and you get negative return for him? If you didn't want to pay tax then I have a brilliant idea, don't fucking match on Crabbe in the first place.

I'm actually still a believer in Dame and CJ together but what the fuck is the point if we aren't going to go all-in to see what they could do with some actual fucking talent around them? Get them some mother fucking help or move CJ to try something different.

I really have loved having Paul Allen as an owner but why the fuck was he worried that Dame wanted a trade? He obviously doesn't give a fuck about making this team better if it costs money to do so. I miss the old Paul Allen who was willing to do whatever necessary to build a winner.

Mr Allen, since you don't give a fuck about it anyway, can I please be the GM? I'd spend every minute of every single day trying to come up with creative solutions (I already spend way too much time on this). I'm out of town this evening and don't really want to keep typing on my phone, I just wanted the people that were expecting a rant from me to know that I'm not hiding.

And me as you're assistant GM? We'd get shit done.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Really? Who do you think we've had that was better? I liked Pritchard mostly, but pretty much everybody else since Trader Bob has been pretty questionable. Unless I'm forgetting someone.

He's kept us average, I'll give him that. He's made some fine moves, but also some real bonehead moves, that have hamstrung this franchise. A lot of people throw Lillards name out as an Olshey pick, but that pick was already etched in stone. Chad Buchanan and his team were in charge of that. Paul Allen was already sold on Lillard.

Rich Cho laid the groundwork for the Lillard trade
He wanted to tear the team down and rebuild. Something that most don't want, but his plan netted us a 1st team all NBA player. He also signed Wes Matthews.

Buchanan was both good and bad also. Drafted Nolan Smith, but also Lillard and Will Barton. Traded for Cupcake, but also signed Joel Przybyla and traded Gerald Wallace for the pick that we used to get Lillard.

Patterson got us Aldridge and Roy

So imo hes been ok, just like some others, but hes also done stupid things, just like some others

 

[illmatic99]

Olshey better have a fucking miracle trade to pull out of his ass. Fuck this. You match Crabbe as an asset retention and you get negative return for him? If you didn't want to pay tax then I have a brilliant idea, don't fucking match on Crabbe in the first place.

I'm actually still a believer in Dame and CJ together but what the fuck is the point if we aren't going to go all-in to see what they could do with some actual fucking talent around them? Get them some mother fucking help or move CJ to try something different.

I really have loved having Paul Allen as an owner but why the fuck was he worried that Dame wanted a trade? He obviously doesn't give a fuck about making this team better if it costs money to do so. I miss the old Paul Allen who was willing to do whatever necessary to build a winner.

Mr Allen, since you don't give a fuck about it anyway, can I please be the GM? I'd spend every minute of every single day trying to come up with creative solutions (I already spend way too much time on this). I'm out of town this evening and don't really want to keep typing on my phone, I just wanted the people that were expecting a rant from me to know that I'm not hiding.

Welcome to the dark side.

 

[illmatic99]

He's kept us average, I'll give him that. He's made some fine moves, but also some real bonehead moves, that have hamstrung this franchise. A lot of people throw Lillards name out as an Olshey pick, but that pick was already etched in stone. Chad Buchanan and his team were in charge of that. Paul Allen was already sold on Lillard.

Rich Cho laid the groundwork for the Lillard trade
He wanted to tear the team down and rebuild. Something that most don't want, but his plan netted us a 1st team all NBA player. He also signed Wes Matthews.

Buchanan was both good and bad also. Drafted Nolan Smith, but also Lillard and Will Barton. Traded for Cupcake, but also signed Joel Przybyla and traded Gerald Wallace for the pick that we used to get Lillard.

Patterson got us Aldridge and Roy

So imo hes been ok, just like some others, but hes also done stupid things, just like some others

Did pizza guy or anyone say anything about this exception? Were there any moves we could have made/were close to making?

 

[e_blazer]

The creative scenarios were not unlikely!

Denver gave away 3 players and attached picks to all of them. Atlanta got a 2nd round pick for taking Lin. Several young guys on rookie deals were dealt to save teams money like Richaun Holmes, Justin Anderson, TLC, Nader, etc. You don't think there are any teams out there that would like to get below the tax line or have a little extra wiggle room right now?

Out of all the guys you listed, only Chandler fit the stated objective of a veteran at a position of need and fit the exception value. At this point in his career do you think Chandler is worth that salary plus the luxury tax penalty? I sure as hell don’t.

 

[RR7]

Out of all the guys you listed, only Chandler fit the stated objective of a veteran at a position of need and fit the exception value. At this point in his career do you think Chandler is worth that salary plus the luxury tax penalty? I sure as hell don’t.

That's the thing, how many guys are worth that tax penalty that would also be available? Likely few, so IMO, olshey shouldn't have bothered mentioning it with our aggressive owner.

 

[hoopsjock]

Out of all the guys you listed, only Chandler fit the stated objective of a veteran at a position of need and fit the exception value. At this point in his career do you think Chandler is worth that salary plus the luxury tax penalty? I sure as hell don’t.

Well I believe getting ANY kind of asset would have been worth it so I'm probably the wrong person to ask. Like I said in the post above that one, in the past Allen wouldn't have cared about money. I get that it's his right to not spend money but I would respect it more if the GM didn't act like he still is aggressive.

For example, there were rumors Denver was looking to cut money before the draft. They had the 43rd pick. Take Arthur or Faried and that pick using the TPE. This would then allow us to trade 43 and maybe just the 2019 2nd via Minny/LAL to move up to 37 to take Trent instead of the insane price we paid to do so.

Then when Davis leaves in free agency you justify it by saying we already got a replacement. The roster spot for Stauskas would be either Faried or Arthur and we'd still have Trent too. I don't really care for either of their games that much but that roster is better and we would have kept Miami's 2021 2nd rounder that could be incredibly valuable.

A guy like Lin I'd take over Stauskas too. Worst case scenario you flip him at the deadline to a team that needs some guard depth. It's a way to kind of extend the TPE.

 

[hoopsjock]

That's the thing, how many guys are worth that tax penalty that would also be available? Likely few, so IMO, olshey shouldn't have bothered mentioning it with our aggressive owner.

If we're looking at it in a vacuum, those guys might not be worth it (I definitely see both sides).

Let me throw this at you though. Right now our only real expiring contract other than rookies and min guys is Aminu at a little under $7 million. If we traded with the Nets to get Lin and a 2nd, we then have another decent expiring. At the deadline we could offer something like Aminu, Lin, and a 1st to get a better player on a bigger contract. Or lets say Detroit sucks this year, they'd probably love to ditch Griffin's contract. I think it would be tough for them to find a better offer than Aminu, Lin, and Leonard which almost completely clears their books.

 

[illmatic99]

If we're looking at it in a vacuum, those guys might not be worth it (I definitely see both sides).

Let me throw this at you though. Right now our only real expiring contract other than rookies and min guys is Aminu at a little under $7 million. If we traded with the Nets to get Lin and a 2nd, we then have another decent expiring. At the deadline we could offer something like Aminu, Lin, and a 1st to get a better player on a bigger contract. Or lets say Detroit sucks this year, they'd probably love to ditch Griffin's contract. I think it would be tough for them to find a better offer than Aminu, Lin, and Leonard which almost completely clears their books.

This concept of opportunity cost is often forgotten. We got nothing out of AC except for dead cap that will be on the books for 5 more seasons. That is just brutal.

 

[e_blazer]

Well I believe getting ANY kind of asset would have been worth it so I'm probably the wrong person to ask. Like I said in the post above that one, in the past Allen wouldn't have cared about money. I get that it's his right to not spend money but I would respect it more if the GM didn't act like he still is aggressive.

For example, there were rumors Denver was looking to cut money before the draft. They had the 43rd pick. Take Arthur or Faried and that pick using the TPE. This would then allow us to trade 43 and maybe just the 2019 2nd via Minny/LAL to move up to 37 to take Trent instead of the insane price we paid to do so.

Then when Davis leaves in free agency you justify it by saying we already got a replacement. The roster spot for Stauskas would be either Faried or Arthur and we'd still have Trent too. I don't really care for either of their games that much but that roster is better and we would have kept Miami's 2021 2nd rounder that could be incredibly valuable.

A guy like Lin I'd take over Stauskas too. Worst case scenario you flip him at the deadline to a team that needs some guard depth. It's a way to kind of extend the TPE.

I'm sure you probably know this, but let's get the numbers out there:

Right now, the Blazers' team salary stands at $131.6M, or about $7.9M over the luxury tax threshold and with a likely tax penalty of $12.6M. If you add the full value of the TPE, the Blazers end up around $20.6M over the threshold. The non-repeater tax rate is $1.5 on the first $5M over, $1.75 on the second, $2.5 on the third, $3.25 0n the 4th, and and $3.75M on the final $.6M, for a whopping $47.5M in luxury tax. Next year, unless the Blazers were able to get under the LT in some fashion, the tax rates would to up to $2.5, $2.75, $3.5, $4.25 and $4.75.

Those relatively low-value assets you're talking about would cost one hell of a lot of money. And that doesn't even factor in the various penalties that kick in once a team gets above the apron that would affect the ability to get other players in the future. Paul Allen was willing to ante up in exchange for a needle-mover, not for a bunch of role players.

 

[Boob-No-More]

For example, there were rumors Denver was looking to cut money before the draft. They had the 43rd pick. Take Arthur or Faried and that pick using the TPE. This would then allow us to trade 43 and maybe just the 2019 2nd via Minny/LAL to move up to 37 to take Trent instead of the insane price we paid to do so.

Insane price we paid???? Two future 2nd round picks is insane?

Here's an example of an insane price to pay for a 2nd round pick. I'll use your Darrell Arthur example, because he makes $5.5 million less than Faried.

Here's what it would have cost POR to use the TPE on Arthur to get an additional 2nd round pick from DEN...

Based on the luxury tax table at cbafaq.com:



Using the non-repeater column for 2018-19...

After Nurk's extension, POR's guaranteed payroll for 2018-19 is at $131,638,624, that's $7,905,624 over the luxury tax threshold of $123,733,000. Add in Arthur's 2018-19 salary of $7,464,912, and that puts POR $15,370,536 over the luxury tax threshold.

Using the table above, POR's tax penalty with Arthur would be $29,676,342.50. The tax penalty without Arthur would be $12,584,843.75, a difference of $17,091,498.75 in additional tax penalty. Add in Arthur's salary of $7,464,912 and the total cost of adding that one additional 2nd round pick would have been $24,556,410.75. Do you really think a future 2nd round pick is worth over $24.5 million cash money? Because, that's what you proposed. There are MUCH cheaper ways to get a future 2nd round pick.

I used Arthur, because he was, by far, the cheaper of the two options. The cost of adding Faried to obtain an additional 2nd round pick would have been over $35 million. That would be somewhat mitigated by the fact that Faried may have actually cracked our rotation.

BNM

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I'm sure you probably know this, but let's get the numbers out there:

Right now, the Blazers' team salary stands at $131.6M, or about $7.9M over the luxury tax threshold and with a likely tax penalty of $12.6M. If you add the full value of the TPE, the Blazers end up around $20.6M over the threshold. The non-repeater tax rate is $1.5 on the first $5M over, $1.75 on the second, $2.5 on the third, $3.25 0n the 4th, and and $3.75M on the final $.6M, for a whopping $47.5M in luxury tax. Next year, unless the Blazers were able to get under the LT in some fashion, the tax rates would to up to $2.5, $2.75, $3.5, $4.25 and $4.75.

Those relatively low-value assets you're talking about would cost one hell of a lot of money. And that doesn't even factor in the various penalties that kick in once a team gets above the apron that would affect the ability to get other players in the future. Paul Allen was willing to ante up in exchange for a needle-mover, not for a bunch of role players.

Repeater tax wouldn't take effect until the third year out of four over the tax line.

And while your 2019 tax calculations are valid, that's assuming the roster/payroll remains the same throughout the year, not necessarily a safe assumption.

 

[hoopsjock]

I'm sure you probably know this, but let's get the numbers out there:

Right now, the Blazers' team salary stands at $131.6M, or about $7.9M over the luxury tax threshold and with a likely tax penalty of $12.6M. If you add the full value of the TPE, the Blazers end up around $20.6M over the threshold. The non-repeater tax rate is $1.5 on the first $5M over, $1.75 on the second, $2.5 on the third, $3.25 0n the 4th, and and $3.75M on the final $.6M, for a whopping $47.5M in luxury tax. Next year, unless the Blazers were able to get under the LT in some fashion, the tax rates would to up to $2.5, $2.75, $3.5, $4.25 and $4.75.

Those relatively low-value assets you're talking about would cost one hell of a lot of money. And that doesn't even factor in the various penalties that kick in once a team gets above the apron that would affect the ability to get other players in the future. Paul Allen was willing to ante up in exchange for a needle-mover, not for a bunch of role players.

The apron line doesn't really matter because we aren't hard capped. So the only thing it effects is the inability to do sign and trades.

I believe in using assets to get more assets. My scenario doesn't make the tax as bad as simply adding those guys and we keep the 2021 Miami 2nd. Instead we are over the apron anyway, have no depth other than guard, and depleted our stockpile of 2nd rounders. To me that isn't worth saving some money.

 

[riverman]

Olshey tried to move the TPE and draft picks …..didn't get the offers he wanted for them. He went out and signed 3 pt shooters for the bench...tried to get Boogie....made a pitch to Kawhi….just didn't pan out...any other move he could have made was a lateral move and he figured our young guys once again could build some value and upgrade in areas....if he didn't get the guy you want....it is what it is...they passed on Beasley early....Faried is not an upgrade in my view...never liked the guy's game...I'd play Swanigan over him anytime...he only does what Swanigan doesn't which is dunk.

 

[e_blazer]

Repeater tax wouldn't take effect until the third year out of four over the tax line.

And while your 2019 tax calculations are valid, that's assuming the roster/payroll remains the same throughout the year, not necessarily a safe assumption.

Thanks for the correction. Agreed, things could possibly have been done to cut salary, but that too involves giving away assets.

 

[Boob-No-More]

The apron line doesn't really matter because we aren't hard capped. So the only thing it effects is the inability to do sign and trades.

I believe in using assets to get more assets. My scenario doesn't make the tax as bad as simply adding those guys and we keep the 2021 Miami 2nd. Instead we are over the apron anyway, have no depth other than guard, and depleted our stockpile of 2nd rounders. To me that isn't worth saving some money.

You don't think there is a cheaper way to acquire a future 2nd round pick? The going rate seems to be far less than $24.5 million.

BNM

 

[e_blazer]

The apron line doesn't really matter because we aren't hard capped. So the only thing it effects is the inability to do sign and trades.

I believe in using assets to get more assets. My scenario doesn't make the tax as bad as simply adding those guys and we keep the 2021 Miami 2nd. Instead we are over the apron anyway, have no depth other than guard, and depleted our stockpile of 2nd rounders. To me that isn't worth saving some money.

That's always easier to say when it's not your money. None of the moves you've suggested would put the Blazers anywhere close to competing with the Warriors. Spending that kind of money for most likely the same result as doing nothing is pretty tough to justify to the boss.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Olshey tried to move the TPE and draft picks …..didn't get the offers he wanted for them. He went out and signed 3 pt shooters for the bench...tried to get Boogie....made a pitch to Kawhi….just didn't pan out...any other move he could have made was a lateral move and he figured our young guys once again could build some value and upgrade in areas....if he didn't get the guy you want....it is what it is...they passed on Beasley early....Faried is not an upgrade in my view...never liked the guy's game...I'd play Swanigan over him anytime...he only does what Swanigan doesn't which is dunk.

Olshey will do big moves at the trade deadline. Don't worry.