TPEs (Traded Player Exceptions)

[Scalma]

I think the blazers should just liquidate. I mean the warriors aren’t going away anytime soon, so what’s the point?

 

[hoopsjock]

You are completely ignoring that Denver couldn't clear Faried if they waited. Sacramento is the only team in the entire league that could clear his contract and who knows if they could if Denver waited. They wanted to clear tax, it's that simple. They couldn't move Faried prior because he wasn't an expiring nor did they want salary in return. In the past Allen wouldn't have hesitated to pay money to better our situation. If he doesn't want to pay then don't let your GM keep saying how aggressive you are because it's not the case anymore.

You are leaping to the conclusion that they wouldn't risk just paying the money.

 

[riverman]

You know what I bet will land us a superstar? Just doing nothing.

We're not landing a superstar...they've all already landed. What we have is youth and guys who can make a leap given some burn....
Big Ed
Bazz
Pat C

Curry
Stauskas
Baldwin
Trent
Simons
new and improved Layman and Biggie......and Meyers hopefully......don't see that we've really lost that much from last year but we've gained shooting and a guy who can throw an alley oop for a change..couple of rooks who can defend and pass...Layman will be better than folks think as well.....if not...come Feb we can roll the dice again...I think we also added speed..guys who can push the tempo off the bench.

 

[Scalma]

We're not landing a superstar...they've all already landed. What we have is youth and guys who can make a leap given some burn....
Big Ed
Bazz
Pat C

Curry
Stauskas
Baldwin
Trent
Simons
new and improved Layman and Biggie......and Meyers hopefully......don't see that we've really lost that much from last year but we've gained shooting and a guy who can throw an alley oop for a change..

We didn’t lose much, nor did we improve much either. Life in the middle.

For us to have a chance, Zach is gonna have to develop into an all star caliber player. And fast.

 

[Propagandist]

Or, complaining about doing nothing. That always works.

If only. If that was all it took, the Blazers would have the greatest super team in the history of the league. 82-0 baby!!!

BNM

In reality, I'm resigned to this course. Your disagreement has been noted, but I think the complaints that the fans have been repeatedly been mislead isn't without merit. It is true that Olshey did not pinky swear; but honest assessments from management--we need playoff tested blah blah blah, for example; or anything about the TPE--are met with a collective sigh: "Oh good. He gets it." Then nothing. I think fans have earned the right to complain.

 

[Boob-No-More]

In reality, I'm resigned to this course. Your disagreement has been noted, but I think the complaints that the fans have been repeatedly been mislead isn't without merit. It is true that Olshey did not pinky swear; but honest assessments from management--we need playoff tested blah blah blah, for example; or anything about the TPE--are met with a collective sigh: "Oh good. He gets it." Then nothing. I think fans have earned the right to complain.

Then:



So, what I'm getting from the nattering nabobs is "Neil is such a big liar, make him stop". Or, more diplomatically, "the fans have been repeatedly been mislead". So, if that's true, stop believing him. Fool you once...

I get the feeling most here, after looking at what was realistically available, came to the conclusion we weren't going to use the Crabbe TPE, but want to complain about it anyway. The complaint has morphed from we didn't get anything, to Neil lied to us.

Whatever.

Paul Allen has proven time and time again, he will spend what it takes to win. He does not have a history of being a penny-pinching cheapskate. I honestly believe if there would have been a deal on the table that makes the team better, it would have happened, regardless of cost. To me, the fact that nothing happened means nothing worthwhile was available. People seem upset that Neil lied to us when all he said was the Crabbe TPE was an asset that would be in play when exploring possible deals.

Maybe Neil should just completely refuse to talk to the media. I get the feeling some posters here would have rather seen him make a bad deal, than no deal at all. At least a bad deal would have proved he was trying. I don't need that proof. None of us know who Neil talked to and what was offered. I'm sure Paul Allen does, and while Paul may not be the penultimate judge of basketball talent, I don't question his dedication to winning.

BNM

 

[hoopsjock]

And, again, I'm back to there are cheaper ways to accomplish that. GSW bought the 38th pick in the 2017 draft (Jordan Bell) for $3.5 million cash. If we want a pick next summer, or the summer after that, why can't we do the same? It's a lot cheaper than using the TPE to take back a bad contract.

Didn't RLEC teach us anything. How many times to we need to have the biggest expiring contract, or the biggest TPE, before people start to understand how overrated those "assets" are.

And you can't just blame Olshey for that. He has nothing to do with RLEC. It's just a fact of life that fans put way more value on those things than opposing GMs do.

BNM

In a much less deep draft the Blazers gave up two future 2nds AND cash for one 2nd rounder. That is a massive overpay in my eyes and we now have no future picks from other teams. It's not about buying a pick at the draft, it's about having draft capital to include in trades to make deals happen.

I've been one of the biggest Olshey apologists on this board. I know all the good he has done but the bottom line is this team needed to improve this summer and they just let one of the few advantages they had over any other team (besides Sacramento) go away. Now we are stuck hoping some team is stupid enough to take Turner and Leonard for someone really good. That's not a good way to build a team or improve it.

If someone like Middleton is really available, you don't think it would be beneficial to be able to take one of their three bad contracts to make that happen? Other teams can't offer that service so it gives us an advantage. At the very least we could have offered them an expiring for a guy who has two years left but now it's hard to even do that.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Then:



So, what I'm getting from the nattering nabobs is "Neil is such a big liar, make him stop". Or, more diplomatically, "the fans have been repeatedly been mislead". So, if that's true, stop believing him. Fool you once...

I get the feeling most here, after looking at what was realistically available, came to the conclusion we weren't going to use the Crabbe TPE, but want to complain about it anyway. The complaint has morphed from we didn't get anything, to Neil lied to us.

Whatever.

Paul Allen has proven time and time again, he will spend what it takes to win. He does not have a history of being a penny-pinching cheapskate. I honestly believe if there would have been a deal on the table that makes the team better, it would have happened, regardless of cost. To me, the fact that nothing happened means nothing worthwhile was available. People seem upset that Neil lied to us when all he said was the Crabbe TPE was an asset that would be in play when exploring possible deals.

Maybe Neil should just completely refuse to talk to the media. I get the feeling some posters here would have rather seen him make a bad deal, than no deal at all. At least a bad deal would have proved he was trying. I don't need that proof. None of us know who Neil talked to and what was offered. I'm sure Paul Allen does, and while Paul may not be the penultimate judge of basketball talent, I don't question his dedication to winning.

BNM

A). yes Please make Neil stop talking.
B.). He was the one who said that PA was an aggressive owner with the Exception so even it turned out to be a “bad deal” maybe a little follow through and do something with the asset would’ve been good...
C) Neil’s fault for the faulty cap situation were in. Not mine, not yours his, so when Blazers fans are upset that we don’t have a lot of assets to get better with, well we’re going to Blame NO for that.
D). Every single trade rumor for a piece that could put the Blazers closer to being a true threat is followed by but the Blazers wouldn’t include CJ - I like CJ and you don’t just trade him for nothing but come on he isn’t even close to a superstar...

What Neil has said and what’s he’s done hasn’t been in line with each other. For instance we need more vet experience so we went and got a bunch of young “shooters” with no playoff experience all while letting go guys who did have playoff experience.

I get it the win totals have gone up, and he gets at least some credit for that.

 

[hoopsjock]

Then:



So, what I'm getting from the nattering nabobs is "Neil is such a big liar, make him stop". Or, more diplomatically, "the fans have been repeatedly been mislead". So, if that's true, stop believing him. Fool you once...

I get the feeling most here, after looking at what was realistically available, came to the conclusion we weren't going to use the Crabbe TPE, but want to complain about it anyway. The complaint has morphed from we didn't get anything, to Neil lied to us.

Whatever.

Paul Allen has proven time and time again, he will spend what it takes to win. He does not have a history of being a penny-pinching cheapskate. I honestly believe if there would have been a deal on the table that makes the team better, it would have happened, regardless of cost. To me, the fact that nothing happened means nothing worthwhile was available. People seem upset that Neil lied to us when all he said was the Crabbe TPE was an asset that would be in play when exploring possible deals.

Maybe Neil should just completely refuse to talk to the media. I get the feeling some posters here would have rather seen him make a bad deal, than no deal at all. At least a bad deal would have proved he was trying. I don't need that proof. None of us know who Neil talked to and what was offered. I'm sure Paul Allen does, and while Paul may not be the penultimate judge of basketball talent, I don't question his dedication to winning.

BNM

Correction, in the past Allen has been willing. After the summer of 2016 every single move has been financially driven. I'm fine with not re-signing Napier, Davis, or Connaughton but then trade some of them at the deadline (before the win streak) and get something for them. That could've resulted in a 2nd round pick we could've used to acquire Trent instead of giving up other assets to do so.

This is why I'm mad about the TPE:
1) Retain Crabbe at an astronomical rate to not lose him for nothing. Good!
2) Crabbe doesn't show much growth but you find a trade that allows you to get under the tax last year. Fine!
3) Trade deadline comes and goes with guys like Mirotic getting traded that we could've used the TPE on to get better immediately because they obviously wanted to stay under the tax and avoid the repeater tax starting. Okay!
4) Olshey admits that strategy was wrong and that they need to stop protecting and bringing in assets and start focusing on guys that will help them in April. Awesome!
5) Olshey says that they are treating the TPE's like having cap space this summer since they are limited otherwise. Great!
6) Olshey drafts two 19 years olds. Alright!
7) Olshey signs two players with zero playoff experience. Hmmm?
8) TPE expires.

How the fuck are we supposed to get better or proven guys if every avenue we had to do that this summer provided nothing of the sort? It's not just the TPE, or what Olshey says, or the moves they make. It's that it makes no fucking sense when you put it all together.

 

[Boob-No-More]

In a much less deep draft the Blazers gave up two future 2nds AND cash for one 2nd rounder. That is a massive overpay in my eyes and we now have no future picks from other teams.

I disagree. I think we got a steal with Trent at 37. 2nd round picks are a total crap shoot. If you get one who makes your roster, you did well. If you get one who cracks your rotation, you got a steal.

Not sure why the "AND cash" was in all caps. Big deal. We gave SAC $1.5 million. Cash considerations are use it or lose it and reset on July 1. Would you rather we'd passed on Trent Jr. to save Paul Allen $1.5 million? You seem to be playing both sides of the issue here. First, you're bitching about Paul and Neil cheaping out by not using the Crabbe TPE, now you're making a big deal about $1.5 million that doesn't count against the cap or luxury tax and would have expired unused anyway.

It seems like you're all over the map. You're perfectly willing to pay a huge ass tax bill to land a future 2nd, yet also bitching about Trent Jr. being a massive overpay.

The Crabbe TPE is gone. Poof. If we could have gotten something of value for it, we would have. We didn't. You can continue to play what ifs to your heart's content, but at the end of the day, you have no idea what was available, what Neil considered and what he turned down. Any scenario you contact after the fact is 100% pure speculation based on unfounded assumptions.

BNM

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I disagree. I think we got a steal with Trent at 37. 2nd round picks are a total crap shoot. If you get one who makes your roster, you did well. If you get one who cracks your rotation, you got a steal.

Not sure why the "AND cash" was in all caps. Big deal. We gave SAC $1.5 million. Cash considerations are use it or lose it and reset on July 1. Would you rather we'd passed on Trent Jr. to save Paul Allen $1.5 million? You seem to be playing both sides of the issue here. First, you're bitching about Paul and Neil cheaping out by not using the Crabbe TPE, now you're making a big deal about $1.5 million that doesn't count against the cap or luxury tax and would have expired unused anyway.

It seems like you're all over the map. You're perfectly willing to pay a huge ass tax bill to land a future 2nd, yet also bitching about Trent Jr. being a massive overpay.

The Crabbe TPE is gone. Poof. If we could have gotten something of value for it, we would have. We didn't. You can continue to play what ifs to your heart's content, but at the end of the day, you have no idea what was available, what Neil considered and what he turned down. Any scenario you contact after the fact is 100% pure speculation based on unfounded assumptions.

BNM

All you have is pure speculation too... You have no idea if PA / NO were actually willing to use the TPE or if the goal all along was sell it as an asset but not use it because of cap reasons. How could you know their intentions? What was available, what wasn’t.

 

[BBert]

In a much less deep draft the Blazers gave up two future 2nds AND cash for one 2nd rounder. That is a massive overpay in my eyes and we now have no future picks from other teams. It's not about buying a pick at the draft, it's about having draft capital to include in trades to make deals happen.

Based SOLELY on what I saw in Summer League (yeah, I know, Summer League, LOL), IMO two future second round picks and some of Paul Allen's loose change is definitely worth GT Jr.

So, in some other hypothetical future, maybe not worth it, but in this case, yes.

As for the rest of your post: I agree. I was one of those foolish souls who held out some hope (until about two weeks ago) that we'd be able to use the TPE to help acquire someone like Middleton or Butler.

The joke's on me, haha (not laughing).

 

[hoopsjock]

Based SOLELY on what I saw in Summer League (yeah, I know, Summer League, LOL), IMO two future second round picks and some of Paul Allen's loose change is definitely worth GT Jr.

So, in some other hypothetical future, maybe not worth it, but in this case, yes.

As for the rest of your post: I agree. I was one of those foolish souls who held out some hope (until about two weeks ago) that we'd be able to use the TPE to help acquire someone like Middleton or Butler.

The joke's on me, haha (not laughing).

If you give up two 2nds and cash they player better be worth it! I'm not trying to argue that Trent himself isn't good, I'm simply saying that comparing $3.5 million for the 38th pick the year before to two 2nds and $1.5 million a year later isn't in the ballpark of comparable.

 

[e_blazer]

All you have is pure speculation too... You have no idea if PA / NO were actually willing to use the TPE or if the goal all along was sell it as an asset but not use it because of cap reasons. How could you know their intentions? What was available, what wasn’t.

What possible reason could Olshey have had to state that the TPEs were in play if he knew, in fact, that they weren't going to be used? Does he get some sort of jollies out of being flamed as a liar? Does he enjoy the extra heat of a disappointed fanbase that had been hoping for a major deal based upon that statement? If they weren't going to be used and he knew it, he could simply have done the usual run-up to the draft and talked about looking trades to upgrade the roster. There's absolutely no percentage in it for him or the team in kiting up the value of the TPEs if there was no plan to use them if the right deal came along.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

What possible reason could Olshey have had to state that the TPEs were in play if he knew, in fact, that they weren't going to be used? Does he get some sort of jollies out of being flamed as a liar? Does he enjoy the extra heat of a disappointed fanbase that had been hoping for a major deal based upon that statement? If they weren't going to be used and he knew it, he could simply have done the usual run-up to the draft and talked about looking trades to upgrade the roster. There's absolutely no percentage in it for him or the team in kiting up the value of the TPEs if there was no plan to use them if the right deal came along.

He gets to tell Dame hey we’re gonna be aggressive with it, then tell him hey we tried.

He gets to tell us how hard he worked to try to use it to make us better, and then tell us well it didnt work out.
There’s tons of ways to spin things...

 

[Hoopguru]

I believe if we could have acquired something of value we would have. Im convinced we will make a significant trade that will better balance the starting line up. If this is the end goal then I can see where letting the TPE go makes since. And I also believe there will be no sacred cows and if a block buster is engineered then everyone is in play for the right return.
Its end of July with plenty of time left to make a big splash that everyone is calling for.
I think timing is everything and we have a shit load of assets to use very strategically.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I believe if we could have acquired something of value we would have. Im convinced we will make a significant trade that will better balance the starting line up. If this is the end goal then I can see where letting the TPE go makes since. And I also believe there will be no sacred cows and if a block buster is engineered then everyone is in play for the right return.
Its end of July with plenty of time left to make a big splash that everyone is calling for.
I think timing is everything and we have a shit load of assets to use very strategically.

I love your optimism, I really, really do!

 

[e_blazer]

If you give up two 2nds and cash they player better be worth it! I'm not trying to argue that Trent himself isn't good, I'm simply saying that comparing $3.5 million for the 38th pick the year before to two 2nds and $1.5 million a year later isn't in the ballpark of comparable.

I really don't get your concern about the two future second round picks and $1.5M. You agree that he shows the potential to be worth that kind of investment. You know that Paul Allen has never hesitated to buy 2nd round picks when needed to get a player he wants, so there's really no need for concern about the loss of future players. You're more than happy to spend vastly more money in luxury tax to get role players. What am I missing here?

 

[e_blazer]

He gets to tell Dame hey we’re gonna be aggressive with it, then tell him hey we tried.

He gets to tell us how hard he worked to try to use it to make us better, and then tell us well it didnt work out.
There’s tons of ways to spin things...

He could do the same thing with trades without the extra heat.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

He could do the same thing with trades without the extra heat.

My point is saying for a fact you know someone else’s intentions well you can’t, and it’s speculation...

 

[hoopsjock]

I disagree. I think we got a steal with Trent at 37. 2nd round picks are a total crap shoot. If you get one who makes your roster, you did well. If you get one who cracks your rotation, you got a steal.

Not sure why the "AND cash" was in all caps. Big deal. We gave SAC $1.5 million. Cash considerations are use it or lose it and reset on July 1. Would you rather we'd passed on Trent Jr. to save Paul Allen $1.5 million? You seem to be playing both sides of the issue here. First, you're bitching about Paul and Neil cheaping out by not using the Crabbe TPE, now you're making a big deal about $1.5 million that doesn't count against the cap or luxury tax and would have expired unused anyway.

It seems like you're all over the map. You're perfectly willing to pay a huge ass tax bill to land a future 2nd, yet also bitching about Trent Jr. being a massive overpay.

The Crabbe TPE is gone. Poof. If we could have gotten something of value for it, we would have. We didn't. You can continue to play what ifs to your heart's content, but at the end of the day, you have no idea what was available, what Neil considered and what he turned down. Any scenario you contact after the fact is 100% pure speculation based on unfounded assumptions.

BNM

I respect the heck out of you BNM, but you are picking and choosing what I am saying to support your side. I wasn't saying "AND cash" because I wanted to save Allen money. I'm comparing the value of trading the 38th pick for $3.5 million one year and then paying $1.5 million and 2 future 2nds the next year for pick 37. I've been consistent the whole time so don't try to paint it differently. The two 2nd rounders are worth more than $2 million in my eyes and that is the same reason I value future 2nds more than you.

I'm not playing what ifs either. Just about every scenario that I've mentioned are ones that actually occurred in real life and I would have done any of them. To say that I'm just concocting scenarios after the fact really pisses me off because I've been talking about this for months (since the TPE was created actually but I wasn't a member of this site yet).

For the last fucking time, I am not willing to pay a huge ass tax bill for a 2nd round pick. I believe a good GM would be able to creatively make moves until the desired outcome was reached. If not, at least they did everything in their power to try. Sure, it's a huge risk and one that might end up costing a ton of money but wouldn't the chance to do something greater be worth that risk sometimes?

I've already explained too that moves could be made to lower the tax bill. Trade Evan Turner for Miles Plumlee and we save $5-6 million off our cap number which would significantly lower that $30 million tax bill. I know these are hypotheticals but there are literally hundreds of scenarios I could come up with to lower the tax bill if it came to that, most of which wouldn't involve getting an asset. If guys like Love or Griffin become available this year it's because their respective team realized they don't want to pay those guys when they are in their mid-30s.

Drafting Simons and Trent was fine OR signing Stauskas and Curry. Adding four shooting guards without addressing any more pressing needs is crazy to me. I don't care that they got Trent, but then don't sign Stauskas or whatever.

 

[e_blazer]

My point is saying for a fact you know someone else’s intentions well you can’t, and it’s speculation...

Olshey said that the Blazers, if possible, wanted to use the TPE plus the No. 24 pick to get a veteran player rather than adding another rookie. That's not speculation; it's fact. Can I know for absolute certain that he wasn't blowing smoke? No, but what he said made sense relative to the team's needs, Paul Allen didn't speak up and say that he didn't agree with what his GM said, and I really can't see any valid reason for him to lie about this. It's a classic case for use of the Occam's Razor principle: When presented with competing hypotheses about a problem, one should select the solution with the fewest assumptions.

 

[hoopsjock]

I really don't get your concern about the two future second round picks and $1.5M. You agree that he shows the potential to be worth that kind of investment. You know that Paul Allen has never hesitated to buy 2nd round picks when needed to get a player he wants, so there's really no need for concern about the loss of future players. You're more than happy to spend vastly more money in luxury tax to get role players. What am I missing here?

I've already stated many times, there is a difference between buying picks at the draft and having future picks to use in trades. I actually think 2nd rounders are valuable, that is why I am mad we gave up the 2021 Heat 2nd rounder. I've presented multiple scenarios in which we could've acquired a 2nd rounder to use in that trade instead of the Miami one. Obviously if I'm willing to take on salary for a 2nd rounder they have value to me.

I'm fine with Trent! I'm confused why we then signed two more SG's and let Davis walk though. It doesn't make sense. The TPE was one way of using a cheat code of sorts to balance the roster. I just don't get what the goal is here. It's obviously not to give Dame a better team.

 

[hoopsjock]

I really don't get your concern about the two future second round picks and $1.5M. You agree that he shows the potential to be worth that kind of investment. You know that Paul Allen has never hesitated to buy 2nd round picks when needed to get a player he wants, so there's really no need for concern about the loss of future players. You're more than happy to spend vastly more money in luxury tax to get role players. What am I missing here?

I disagree. I think we got a steal with Trent at 37. 2nd round picks are a total crap shoot. If you get one who makes your roster, you did well. If you get one who cracks your rotation, you got a steal.

Not sure why the "AND cash" was in all caps. Big deal. We gave SAC $1.5 million. Cash considerations are use it or lose it and reset on July 1. Would you rather we'd passed on Trent Jr. to save Paul Allen $1.5 million? You seem to be playing both sides of the issue here. First, you're bitching about Paul and Neil cheaping out by not using the Crabbe TPE, now you're making a big deal about $1.5 million that doesn't count against the cap or luxury tax and would have expired unused anyway.

It seems like you're all over the map. You're perfectly willing to pay a huge ass tax bill to land a future 2nd, yet also bitching about Trent Jr. being a massive overpay.

The Crabbe TPE is gone. Poof. If we could have gotten something of value for it, we would have. We didn't. You can continue to play what ifs to your heart's content, but at the end of the day, you have no idea what was available, what Neil considered and what he turned down. Any scenario you contact after the fact is 100% pure speculation based on unfounded assumptions.

BNM

Based SOLELY on what I saw in Summer League (yeah, I know, Summer League, LOL), IMO two future second round picks and some of Paul Allen's loose change is definitely worth GT Jr.

So, in some other hypothetical future, maybe not worth it, but in this case, yes.

As for the rest of your post: I agree. I was one of those foolish souls who held out some hope (until about two weeks ago) that we'd be able to use the TPE to help acquire someone like Middleton or Butler.

The joke's on me, haha (not laughing).

@BonesJones mentioned this in another thread. Offer to take one Miles Plumlee from the Hawks for the TPE for pick #34. The Blazers could have taken Trent at 34 and kept their two future 2nd rounders. What does it matter what the cost was if they get a good player, isn't that what you guys said? Plumlee can provide some depth at center for two seasons until his contract runs out. Or even better if we got the 30th pick then Trent wouldn't have needed to be signed using the tax-MLE.

It's like the whole fucking off season was based on getting Cousins when it would have been near impossible to pull off and Olshey has a good enough relationship with his agent to know that it would become a conflict. I think the Cousins thing was the real reason they didn't pull a trade off at the draft because they knew if they used the TPE it would be impossible. Then after the Cousins trade fell through it was too late to go back and change anything or get anything good for it.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Just as there are people who will attack NO no matter he does, there are also people who seem to defend him no matter what he does.
What I find interesting about this summer either NO is a liar and lied to us about what he wanted to do, or he is unable to pull off moves to make the Blazers better. Neither of those options seem great to me...
Sure we can praise him for not doing anything, we can praise him for doing something great.
We can tear him down for those same things too.
Fact is he sold the asset of the TPE, he sold the we need to get veterans thing and so far has failed to do either.

 

[riverman]

That could've resulted in a 2nd round pick

2nd round picks can be bought without losing assets...Paul does that all the time.

 

[riverman]

there are also people who seem to defend him no matter what he does.

that's not really fair...there are fans who understand what he does and take interest in the changes he's made...the people who don't like Olshey are much more willing to bash him no matter what he does for the team....to me...we're just better than last year...I say that because I believe the coaching staff makes 2nd and 3rd year players better pretty consistently. We have many anti Olshey threads around here....I've yet to see a thread praising him. You've got a lot of company...it's folks like me who don't have front office or ownership or coaching complaints that are clearly in the minority...

 

[Scalma]

that's not really fair...there are fans who understand what he does and take interest in the changes he's made...the people who don't like Olshey are much more willing to bash him no matter what he does for the team....to me...we're just better than last year...I say that because I believe the coaching staff makes 2nd and 3rd year players better pretty consistently. We have many anti Olshey threads around here....I've yet to see a thread praising him. You've got a lot of company...it's folks like me who don't have front office or ownership or coaching complaints that are clearly in the minority...

So the people that criticize/dislike him don’t understand what he’s doing?

I was pretty neutral about Olshey until recently. I can give him props when he deserves it. The Nurkic trade for example. The problem is I had to go back almost two years to identify a basketball move he’s made that actually improved the team. If it’s financial, he should’ve been fired for putting Portland in the position of paying for decisions made over two years ago. If it’s not financial, then he should be fired for a complete inability to use the tools and assets he has had to balance out the roster.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

that's not really fair...there are fans who understand what he does and take interest in the changes he's made...the people who don't like Olshey are much more willing to bash him no matter what he does for the team....to me...we're just better than last year...I say that because I believe the coaching staff makes 2nd and 3rd year players better pretty consistently. We have many anti Olshey threads around here....I've yet to see a thread praising him. You've got a lot of company...it's folks like me who don't have front office or ownership or coaching complaints that are clearly in the minority...

I didn’t mention any particular posters. I give credit to NO for some of the good things he’s done. He did say they wanted to use the TPE - They couldn’t (not shocking), but he’s the guy who’s supposed to figure out how to use his assets to get better. He’s the guy who said he wanted to get more veteran experience to try to win in April, and hasn’t done that yet...

I am not being sarcastic when I say I enjoy the optimism of posters like you and @Hoopguru . I appreciate it and I try to look at it from the perspective you bring.

That doesn’t necessarily mean I agree with you.

I know I lean towards being one of those that criticize NO no matter what he does, I do have to work on being fair about the things he’s done. I try to give him credit for things like remaking the Roster after LMA left, keeping Dame happy, getting Nurkic here, etc.

I still stand by it though there will be people who will criticize him no matter what moves he makes and there will be people who will praise every move he makes.

At this point I don’t really think the team got better this summer (at least short term), but I’m not yielding a judgement on that at the moment I can see an arguement that they could be better if Zach, Simons, Trent, Curry can become legit players this year.

 

[BonesJones]

Shit, I think every Olshey hater has praised a move before. Me and Gronk praised his draft (it took me a while to come around on Trent). Then there's some posters in here who I've never seen have a problem with anything Neil's done, then claim some "Olshey haters" will bash him no matter what. That's not fair.