Trade Lillard now

[riverman]

Unfortunately NO didn’t put a team around Dame. In truth, from an organization’s angle, it’s time to rebuild this team and Dame happens to be a vital piece in the speed by which we make this happen.

Dame will not be angry over this - he’ll be very happy if he finds himself playing in New York, Brooklyn, Chicago, LA Clippers, Boston, Philly or Milwaukee. The Blazers better never trade him to the Piss & Purple! He may never win a title with the Knicks, but he could win a ring with the other teams I list.

CJ is overpaid, Nurk and RoCo will be free agents and I do not want to re-sign either. This all means that we could see Dame, CJ, Nurk and RoCo all depart….and while we are at it, trade Powell and now the entire starting 5 are gone. Clearly a rebuild.

Keep Simons and re-sign him, keep Little, keep Brown. The rest can go or used as trade filler.

The above is pretty bleak if you ask me. How do we make things better?

1. Sit Dame now and trade him this Summer;

2. trade CJ, Nurkic and RoCo now. For certain trade Nurkic and RoCo and if need-be, CJ can be moved this Summer;

3. hopefully we don’t go on a win streak and we finish with a bottom 4 record and do well in the draft;

4. Do not trade Dame to the Lakers! Preferably, send him to an Eastern Conference team.

5. Sell the team to Drexler/Hakeem investor group and renovate the Rose Quarter complex

6. Bring back the original pinwheel logo and add Gold to our Scarlet & Black colors.

A new era must be built!

and retire the “letter 0” as a gesture to Dame’s loyalty and contributions.

Couldn't disagree more about including Dame in this...everything else is fine but that part....you won't get a proven leader of his caliber back to Portland and you'll lose a once in a lifetime leader...zero upside in my view. The Warriors shut down Klay, shut down Curry for a stretch and still built a contender around them ...that's what we need to do only we don't have a Klay in CJ.....

 

[calvin natt]

Couldn't disagree more about including Dame in this...everything else is fine but that part....you won't get a proven leader of his caliber back to Portland and you'll lose a once in a lifetime leader...zero upside in my view. The Warriors shut down Klay, shut down Curry for a stretch and still built a contender around them ...that's what we need to do only we don't have a Klay in CJ.....

We don’t have Klay or Draymond. And Lillard isn’t Curry. It’s apples and oranges. We don’t even have Wiggins or wiseman or Poole. They have a ton more talent, and the talent is perfect together. If GS management had our roster, Lillard would be on the block.

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

Couldn't disagree more about including Dame in this...everything else is fine but that part....you won't get a proven leader of his caliber back to Portland and you'll lose a once in a lifetime leader...zero upside in my view. The Warriors shut down Klay, shut down Curry for a stretch and still built a contender around them ...that's what we need to do only we don't have a Klay in CJ.....

Dame wants a $50 mil a year extension…this unfortunately is not an upside. It’s a huge burden to a rebuild.

i love Dame. But Neil left too big a mess and now we must blow this ship up. All said, we need THE BEST general manager in order for this rebuild to be a success. I think we blew an opportunity to nab Danny Ainge.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Tim and Dirk had more help....Jason Kidd was Dirk's pt guard...Jason Terry the 6 man.....Manu and Parker were with Tim and they were better teams.....hey....Terry Stotts designed the Mavs playoff run offensive success ....gotta love that! To me no way Dirk on his own with Dame's roster has a better season than Dame ...Dame has way more skills than Dirk...Dirk also played zero D...he was just a Reggie Miller type scorer really but they made it work

No way man. Dirk is probably the best shooting big man of all time. He had some nifty handles too. You can't say Dirk played zero D and act like Dame is some defensive player himself. Dirk will always be higher than Dame in all time rankings for players. That takes nothing away from Dame. It just is the truth.

 

[riverman]

Dame wants a $50 mil a year extension…this unfortunately is not an upside. It’s a huge burden to a rebuild.

i love Dame. But Neil left too big a mess and now we must blow this ship up. All said, we need THE BEST general manager in order for this rebuild to be a success. I think we blew an opportunity to nab Danny Ainge.

Dames extension figure is negotiable and injured even more so but I don't want Ainge...he would tear the franchise down to the studs and I don't see that as the way to taking us closer to contending....I'm keeping Dame, Norm, Nance and Nas, Smith Jr and Ant at this point and moving everybody else you can...I give Cronin till the deadline to see what he brings to the job but I like the connection he has with Chauncey and the new President of operations....the job right now is his to lose. Of the list of guys I said I'd keep, all but Dame could also go for the right deal
we need size

 

[Phatguysrule]

Unfortunately NO didn’t put a team around Dame. In truth, from an organization’s angle, it’s time to rebuild this team and Dame happens to be a vital piece in the speed by which we make this happen.

Dame will not be angry over this - he’ll be very happy if he finds himself playing in New York, Brooklyn, Chicago, LA Clippers, Boston, Philly or Milwaukee. The Blazers better never trade him to the Piss & Purple! He may never win a title with the Knicks, but he could win a ring with the other teams I list.

CJ is overpaid, Nurk and RoCo will be free agents and I do not want to re-sign either. This all means that we could see Dame, CJ, Nurk and RoCo all depart….and while we are at it, trade Powell and now the entire starting 5 are gone. Clearly a rebuild.

Keep Simons and re-sign him, keep Little, keep Brown. The rest can go or used as trade filler.

The above is pretty bleak if you ask me. How do we make things better?

1. Sit Dame now and trade him this Summer;

2. trade CJ, Nurkic and RoCo now. For certain trade Nurkic and RoCo and if need-be, CJ can be moved this Summer;

3. hopefully we don’t go on a win streak and we finish with a bottom 4 record and do well in the draft;

4. Do not trade Dame to the Lakers! Preferably, send him to an Eastern Conference team.

5. Sell the team to Drexler/Hakeem investor group and renovate the Rose Quarter complex

6. Bring back the original pinwheel logo and add Gold to our Scarlet & Black colors.

A new era must be built!

and retire the “letter 0” as a gesture to Dame’s loyalty and contributions.

We're not going to trade Dame for a better player than Dame.

All we'd be doing would be signaling that we can't win in Portland, so stars shouldn't stay.

 

[riverman]

No way man. Dirk is probably the best shooting big man of all time. He had some nifty handles too. You can't say Dirk played zero D and act like Dame is some defensive player himself. Dirk will always be higher than Dame in all time rankings for players. That takes nothing away from Dame. It just is the truth.

disagree....I always called Dirk" _irk Nowinski" (no D) .....he was a terrible defender especially for a 7 ' guy and he was a Reggie Miller shooter....rarely even dunked...Dame gets dimes and boards....and is 6'2" and an elite scorer and a clutch scorer..

 

[SlyPokerCat]

disagree....I always called Dirk" _irk Nowinski" (no D) .....he was a terrible defender especially for a 7 ' guy and he was a Reggie Miller shooter....rarely even dunked...Dame gets dimes and boards....and is 6'2" and an elite scorer and a clutch scorer..

Dirk was an elite and clutch scorer. He is a MVP in the league. When will Dame get MVP? Dirk also made 14 all star games. And won a title. It isn't close bro.

 

[riverman]

Dirk was an elite and clutch scorer. He is a MVP in the league. When will Dame get MVP? Dirk also made 14 all star games. And won a title. It isn't close bro.

great career....great shooter....not a better player than Dame in my view and was never an MVP by my vote...Steve Nash wasn't either but he got 2 MVPs.......it's all good....Dirks era 7 ft with a jump shot you're an allstar. He is the unicorn Euro superstar.....I get it. Never really liked his game...Jokic is the real deal in that world to me.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

great career....great shooter....not a better player than Dame in my view and was never an MVP by my vote...Steve Nash wasn't either but he got 2 MVPs.......it's all good....Dirks era 7 ft with a jump shot you're an allstar.

I can't believe you are trying to diminish Dirk's accolades as if they just gave away all star games to jump shooting big men. Dirk was a unicorn of a player. One of the greatest power forwards of all time.

 

[riverman]

I can't believe you are trying to diminish Dirk's accolades as if they just gave away all star games to jump shooting big men. Dirk was a unicorn of a player. One of the greatest power forwards of all time.

It's an opinion....you can believe it..I said Dirk was a great shooter..and here's another...I never liked Michael Jordan either...thought he was a pampered player that got a free pass to scream at refs....and Karl Malone was a great two way power forward..so was Duncan..that I won't argue

 

[Natebishop3]

I can't believe you are trying to diminish Dirk's accolades as if they just gave away all star games to jump shooting big men. Dirk was a unicorn of a player. One of the greatest power forwards of all time.

He was unarguable. I think people forget how insanely good he was in his prime. I remember that series in... what.... 2002? It was close because we had an insane collection of talent, but Dirk was lights out. It's amazing the Mavs only won one title. They were stacked for many years. The level of talent on those Mavs teams compared to the stinking pile of cow dung that have been our rosters under Neil isn't even close.

 

[Haakzilla]

...never trade Dame, shut him down this season. Get healthy. Win lottery. Lock this thread. /

 

[Phatguysrule]

I can't believe you are trying to diminish Dirk's accolades as if they just gave away all star games to jump shooting big men. Dirk was a unicorn of a player. One of the greatest power forwards of all time.

Dirk was a great player in Texas. He was always going to get a lot of all star votes.

I'm not saying he didn't deserve it, but being in Oregon is different than Texas.

 

[Phatguysrule]

He was unarguable. I think people forget how insanely good he was in his prime. I remember that series in... what.... 2002? It was close because we had an insane collection of talent, but Dirk was lights out. It's amazing the Mavs only won one title. They were stacked for many years. The level of talent on those Mavs teams compared to the stinking pile of cow dung that have been our rosters under Neil isn't even close.

Yes. Dirk had a TON of help.

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

We're not going to trade Dame for a better player than Dame.

All we'd be doing would be signaling that we can't win in Portland, so stars shouldn't stay.

stars don’t come!

We’d be replacing Dame with a couple young players plus multiple picks - not for one player

Simmons
Maxey
Picks

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

Dames extension figure is negotiable and injured even more so but I don't want Ainge...he would tear the franchise down to the studs and I don't see that as the way to taking us closer to contending....I'm keeping Dame, Norm, Nance and Nas, Smith Jr and Ant at this point and moving everybody else you can...I give Cronin till the deadline to see what he brings to the job but I like the connection he has with Chauncey and the new President of operations....the job right now is his to lose. Of the list of guys I said I'd keep, all but Dame could also go for the right deal
we need size

Well….we shall see what, if anything happens! Hope it’s exciting

 

[swish3]

Voitng for Dame as an All Star still makes a lot of sense because of his outstanding achievements and the comeback that he is making as his recovery from injury progresses. Remember that Dame need not necessarily play in the All Star Game even if he is voted in, which is all the more true considering his possible injury status at the time of the ASG.

I am still voting for Dame as an All Star for the well deserved recognition that it brings and the recognition of his all NBA worthy achievements.

 

[glredig]

What's crazy to me about this trade Lillard talk is that he's the caliber player you'd be ecstatic to get in the draft.
So we're trading a phenomenal talent who happens to be absurdly loyal (and, honestly, the most fun player to watch in many years) in hopes that you get young players or draft picks that will turn into, what? That same phenomenal talent? Basically a new Dame.

It feels like some people just want to shuffle the deck when they're holding 3 of a kind in hopes that they get a full house with their 5 new cards.

We could trade Lillard for the possibility of hitting it big with new talent. But it's more likely that we end up with players who aren't as talented (and certainly aren't as loyal) and the team isn't worth watching for years.

I get that it's worth the gamble to some people here. That's a fair take. But I'm just not interested in that gamble without at least trying to do something drastic that retains Dame.

 

[swish3]

It is important to consider the optimistic outlook for Dame's career, consideriing that he is presently 31. Dame may likely still be on to a peak at age 35 of 36 as multiple talented shooters and team leaders have been. Whether Dame returns to the respectable high plateau level that we have come to expect or climbs to even higher with coach Chauncey and new GM support can surely result in being a contender given a fair chance. Let's see what the new GM, President, and Coach can put together for the rest of the season. Keeping Dame should be the priority.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Dirk was a great player in Texas. He was always going to get a lot of all star votes.

I'm not saying he didn't deserve it, but being in Oregon is different than Texas.

What are you talking about. Dirk never was voted a starter by fans. Coaches picked him 13 times and he was chosen as a commissioner replacement pick once.

That has nothing to do with Texas vs. Oregon.

 

[Phatguysrule]

What are you talking about. Dirk never was voted a starter by fans. Coaches picked him 13 times and he was chosen as a commissioner replacement pick once.

That has nothing to do with Texas vs. Oregon.

I stand corrected. He was a force, no question. Nearly unstoppable offensively.

 

[andalusian]

disagree....I always called Dirk" _irk Nowinski" (no D) .....he was a terrible defender especially for a 7 ' guy and he was a Reggie Miller shooter....rarely even dunked...Dame gets dimes and boards....and is 6'2" and an elite scorer and a clutch scorer..

Dirk had a positive dbpm for his career, Dame is negative. Dirk certainly was not a great defender, but he was not a burden on his team defense. No disrespect to Dame who's probably a better offensive player than Dirk, but you are doing Dirk dirty on his defensive ability.

 

[wizenheimer]

Seems like we're starting to reach the point of some of the fan base beginning their slow turn on Lillard, primarily because of the failures of Olshey, which is a shame. Yes, we all want team over players, and Blazers to win, not an individual. Just feels like, sucking is a lot easier for many fans, because you can dupe yourself in to the old Chicago Cubs' "There's always next year" sort of mantra. Trade Dame, and lets get super excited about Little and Simons, and whoever we get at pick 8 or whatever. Get excited about a guy like Poku on OKC because...well...he's young! With no expectations, we can just pump up shit players to whatever lofty status our heart desires.
I don't give a shit about Lillard not liking Quick. Am sure more went on then we'll know, and I just don't care to jump to anything. I know we don't have a dynasty built with Lillard, I'm hoping on the Dirk method to get to a title, ideally. And if not, he's likely to go down as the best Blazer ever, I'm happy to be here to enjoy his career.

good post....and yeah, I'm seeing certain posters doing a slow pivot against Dame (others with a hard pivot to loopy arguments), making I-have-an-agenda posts about his 'decline' and 'regression'

and certainly, something that fits into that agenda would be trashing Dame for his reaction to Quick. LOL siding with Quick. That's rich. Dame has been dealing with Quick for a decade. So he is years into potential 'straw-that-breaks-the-back' ground. People would be pretty lame to believe this was all about a single thing Quick wrote.

 

[Shaboid]

fuck this thread.

 

[wizenheimer]

Dirk had a positive dbpm for his career, Dame is negative. Dirk certainly was not a great defender, but he was not a burden on his team defense. No disrespect to Dame who's probably a better offensive player than Dirk, but you are doing Dirk dirty on his defensive ability.

just an observation: front court players and especially big men are generally advantaged by the DBPM stat; guards tend to be disadvantaged. That's especially true when they play on poor defensive teams

one of the best defenders at guard is Jrue Holiday. His career DBPM is only +0.1...barely above neutral

 

[andalusian]

just an observation: front court players and especially big men are generally advantaged by the DBPM stat; guards tend to be disadvantaged. That's especially true when they play on poor defensive teams

one of the best defenders at guard is Jrue Holiday. His career DBPM is only +0.1...barely above neutral

Sure, but this is just an easy stat to view, DWS - on a per game - Dirk is 4 times higher than Dame (took total for career, divided by number of games played). Can't find easy access totals for DRPM - but from what I have tried to see at ESPN going year by year, Dame had only 1 year of a positive DRPM, I only checked 4 years for Dirk, he had a positive DRPM in 3 of them, his highest was more than twice larger than Dame's best defensive year by DRPM.

Again, Dirk was not a great defender, But Dame is worse by any reasonable measure.

 

[riverman]

Dirk had a positive dbpm for his career, Dame is negative. Dirk certainly was not a great defender, but he was not a burden on his team defense. No disrespect to Dame who's probably a better offensive player than Dirk, but you are doing Dirk dirty on his defensive ability.

We disagree about his defense quite a bit....he hardly tried......his team was better defensively than Dame's Blazers but Melo and Kanter played better defense than Dirk....my opinion...not dirt...just observations....I know he's a basketball darling but I thought he was a 7 ft version of Kyle Korver. There are a handful of superstars in history that I think are overrated and he's one on my list. Nothing wrong with being an elite scorer but that's where his legacy falls in my view.
Steve Nash won two MVPs without playing a lick of defense either and turned the ball over a ton....the era of guys who were lights out 3 pt shooters back then was a shorter list than it is today and praise came with that ability because it was sort of the new advantage teams would have after the era of dunking centers.

 

[Phatguysrule]

stars don’t come!

Which is exactly why we should try to hang on to the star we currently have, since he wants to be here.

It'll be far harder to get 2 stars if we give Dame up than getting another star to pair with him.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

We disagree about his defense quite a bit....he hardly tried......his team was better defensively than Dame's Blazers but Melo and Kanter played better defense than Dirk....my opinion...not dirt...just observations....I know he's a basketball darling but I thought he was a 7 ft version of Kyle Korver. There are a handful of superstars in history that I think are overrated and he's one on my list. Nothing wrong with being an elite scorer but that's where his legacy falls in my view.

A 7 ft version of kyle korver. That is incredibly offensive to Dirks legacy. I am at a loss of words.