Training camp is going to be a war

[DryHeat]

Well, we're not winning the championship next year so why the fuck does it matter?

People were saying that in 1976-77.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

People were saying that in 1976-77.

Do you really think this team is going to make the playoffs, let alone beat SAS and GSW to then beat CLE for the championship if only we don't start CJ?

 

[DryHeat]

Do you really think this team is going to make the playoffs, let alone beat SAS and GSW to then beat CLE for the championship if only we don't start CJ?

Nothing to do with who starts, just stating anything can happen.

 

[Hobbesarable]

Well, we're not winning the championship next year so why the fuck does it matter?

It may be beneficial for CJ to acclimate himself as a back-up pg while sliding into the 6th man scoring role. It'll depend on Coach Stotts game plan.

In that case, they would probably start Henderson at the 2.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

It may be beneficial for CJ to acclimate himself as a back-up pg while sliding into the 6th man scoring role. It'll depend on Coach Stotts game plan.

In that case, they would probably start Henderson at the 2.

Good points... trading for Henderson gives Stotts an excuse to start "the vet" over the more offensively potent CJ.

 

[DryHeat]

Good points... trading for Henderson gives Stotts an excuse to start "the vet" over the more offensively potent CJ.

That is my biggest concern, hoping for open competition and that determines the starters.
I just want the 5 best team players to be the starters. Whoever plays the best together and go from there.

Stotts has work to do if anyone is on the hot seat, its him.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

That is my biggest concern, hoping for open competition and that determines the starters.
I just want the 5 best team players to be the starters. Whoever plays the best together and go from there.

Stotts has work to do if anyone is on the hot seat, its him.

A new team is a good excuse to give him one more chance without Tex in the lineup dominating his offenseive strategy... but if we don't overachieve, I'd say he's probably gone.

 

[Chris Craig]

Good points... trading for Henderson gives Stotts an excuse to start "the vet" over the more offensively potent CJ.

Well you don't put all your eggs in one basket....Stotts has to put together the starting lineup and second strings by balancing out the offensive and defensive....it is not always the best strategy to start all the best players...there has to be something left for the bench

 

[ThugginPaulyGAllen]

Are you seriously advocating that Damian and McCollum be a starting backcourt? You can't play those two together full time; sure spurts of small ball are possible, but not all the time and especially because it would be a disaster defensively.

He is hardly the first one to advocate that, first of all. Second of all, McCollum is a capable defender - that said - It would be not very good for our defense to play them together; however, we will be better defensively at SF, PF and possibly center to cover up for a poor defensive back court.

You could even play Dame/CJ/Harkless/Aminu/Davis as a small ball lineup and arguably be pretty solid defensively, substitute Vonleh in as well.

 

[ThugginPaulyGAllen]

Pick and roll is also predicated on the threat that the roll man might pick and pop. Otherwise defenses will sag back and clog the lane. Damian is going to get a healthy dose of double teams, forcing him to get rid of the ball early which is going to put the onus of handling the ball and scoring on guys like Aminu, et al.

Offense is going to be a problem, because teams that can't shoot in the modern NBA almost always have trouble generating offense.

Plumlee is the only who couldn't pick and pop, correct? Everyone else is capable of the midrange jumper, as far as I know. Davis - Vonleh - Meyers - Kaman - Aminu.

I'd actually start

Dame/Henderson/Aminu/Davis/Meyers if I wanted to win games.

Double Dame on the pick and roll? Great, Henderson becomes the outlet, whose speciality is attacking the basket, you can use Davis or Meyers as the pick n roll guy to bring the big guy out of the paint, opening up a clear lane to the hoop for Henderson. Could even use Davis in the PnR, pull meyers out of the middle as Aminu excels at rebounding for his size.

Thus; we would have a

Dame // Davis PnR (pulling Davis guy out of the middle)

Henderson high wing for the outlet if they trap -- if he gets it, attacks the basket -- also has a solid corner 3 shot.

Aminu ready to crash the boards - from the corner 3 spot.

Meyers on the perimeter because his 3pt MUST be respected.

If they don't trap Dame on the PnR, then it becomes a simple 2 man game with Davis rolling to the basket with a wide open middle because Meyers is floating on the outside.

Our offense should be fine.

 

[riverman]

I hope CJ is the 6 man and I don't want him alongside Dame anymore than possible. We have longer, taller, defensive guys who can play the 2..Henderson is way better next to Dame than CJ. We added a lot of defenders with this roster and I expect a lot of offensive rebounds and putbacks, transition buckets..we have guys who can finish a fast break for a change and more alley oops and pick and roll schemes. Dame, CJ, Crabbe, Leonard, Henderson (from the corner only)and Connaughton can shoot the deep ball

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Are you seriously advocating that Damian and McCollum be a starting backcourt? You can't play those two together full time; sure spurts of small ball are possible, but not all the time and especially because it would be a disaster defensively.

I just don't think CJ is ever going to be a starter. I think he'll fill both the backup one and two so he can get 30-ish minutes.

Maybe. It's hard to imagine he and Dame and CJ starting duo. OTOH,

Dame: 6' 3" great offense, mediocre defense
CJ: 6' 4" (according to wiki) good offense, pretty good defense, from a very small school

reminds me of

Mr X: 6' 1" great offense, mediocre defense
Mr Y: 6' 3" good offense, very good defense, from a very small school

Mr X and Mr Y won championships together, and are both in the hall of fame.

So, while it isn't common, it is doable. I know some of you are going to say that CJ is no Mr. Y, but neither was Mr. Y. He was the 18th draft pick from a small school. Mr Y. averaged 9.4 and 11.8 PPG his first 2 years, and didn't average 18 or more until his 6th year, and only average 20 or more 3 years of his 14 years with a career average of 16.1 PPG.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Maybe. It's hard to imagine he and Dame and CJ starting duo. OTOH,

Dame: 6' 3" great offense, mediocre defense
CJ: 6' 4" (according to wiki) good offense, pretty good defense, from a very small school

reminds me of

Mr X: 6' 1" great offense, mediocre defense
Mr Y: 6' 3" good offense, very good defense, from a very small school

Mr X and Mr Y won championships together, and are both in the hall of fame.

So, while it isn't common, it is doable. I know some of you are going to say that CJ is no Mr. Y, but neither was Mr. Y. He was the 18th draft pick from a small school. Mr Y. averaged 9.4 and 11.8 PPG his first 2 years, and didn't average 18 or more until his 6th year, and only average 20 or more 3 years of his 14 years with a career average of 16.1 PPG.

But the real question is, would CJ pass on Carmelo?

 

[LizardKing]

Maybe. It's hard to imagine he and Dame and CJ starting duo. OTOH,

Dame: 6' 3" great offense, mediocre defense
CJ: 6' 4" (according to wiki) good offense, pretty good defense, from a very small school

reminds me of

Mr X: 6' 1" great offense, mediocre defense
Mr Y: 6' 3" good offense, very good defense, from a very small school

Mr X and Mr Y won championships together, and are both in the hall of fame.

So, while it isn't common, it is doable. I know some of you are going to say that CJ is no Mr. Y, but neither was Mr. Y. He was the 18th draft pick from a small school. Mr Y. averaged 9.4 and 11.8 PPG his first 2 years, and didn't average 18 or more until his 6th year, and only average 20 or more 3 years of his 14 years with a career average of 16.1 PPG.

I don't know who told you CJ plays good D, but they were lying. He and Dame both really struggle on the pick and roll. I love the idea of starting a freaking huge line up with CJ anchoring the scoring off the bench. We could start Aminu at the 3, and any combo of Davis/Plumlee/Kaman that can get points up front. Kaman has the best post moves, but the Plumlee Lillard alley-oop connection is going to be real. Then with one sub we shift Aminu to the 4, get Kaman off the court as quickly as possible and then run hard with the second unit. We have a lot of young athletes with a lot of different skillsets so it's tempting to play small all the time, but I think if we start small were gonna get run out of the building half the time. Best turn it into a wrestling match, keep it close and then let Dame and CJ go for it in the 4th quarter.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Are you seriously advocating that Damian and McCollum be a starting backcourt? You can't play those two together full time; sure spurts of small ball are possible, but not all the time and especially because it would be a disaster defensively.

I don't know who told you CJ plays good D, but they were lying. He and Dame both really struggle on the pick and roll. I love the idea of starting a freaking huge line up with CJ anchoring the scoring off the bench. We could start Aminu at the 3, and any combo of Davis/Plumlee/Kaman that can get points up front. Kaman has the best post moves, but the Plumlee Lillard alley-oop connection is going to be real. Then with one sub we shift Aminu to the 4, get Kaman off the court as quickly as possible and then run hard with the second unit. We have a lot of young athletes with a lot of different skillsets so it's tempting to play small all the time, but I think if we start small were gonna get run out of the building half the time. Best turn it into a wrestling match, keep it close and then let Dame and CJ go for it in the 4th quarter.

sniff, sniff. I've been lied to. Hopefully, you are wrong, but it's not obvious that you are.

One of the problems with the CJ/Dame starting lineup is that I truly think it best to have one in the game at all time.

 

[LizardKing]

sniff, sniff. I've been lied to. Hopefully, you are wrong, but it's not obvious that you are.

One of the problems with the CJ/Dame starting lineup is that I truly think it best to have one in the game at all time.

I think for 5 minute spurts it could be dynamic. I think for 10 minute spurts it could be disastrous.

 

[Nikolokolus]

One minor niggle, Damian's defense isn't mediocre, it's bad - like "6 points per 100 possessions worse" kind of bad. Pairing him with a smallish shooting guard who is just OK on defense isn't a great idea. That's my only point I was trying to make when I replied to Mags comment above - the team needs a guy on the wing who compliments Damian IMO and helps cover up some of his deficiencies (and hopefully Dame improves at that end of the court).

 

[PtldPlatypus]

One minor niggle, Damian's defense isn't mediocre, it's bad - like "6 points per 100 possessions worse" kind of bad.

Not to mention that "Mr. X" also wasn't mediocre defensively--he was actually quite good. For his career, his DWS is only 1.7 lower than his OWS. Statistically, he was much better defensively than Mr. Y was.

 

[KingSpeed]

CJ is good at steals. Probably our best last season.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

CJ is good at steals. Probably our best last season.

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

 

[HailBlazers]

One minor niggle, Damian's defense isn't mediocre, it's bad - like "6 points per 100 possessions worse" kind of bad. Pairing him with a smallish shooting guard who is just OK on defense isn't a great idea. That's my only point I was trying to make when I replied to Mags comment above - the team needs a guy on the wing who compliments Damian IMO and helps cover up some of his deficiencies (and hopefully Dame improves at that end of the court).

Agree 100%. CJ is 6th man material.

 

[LizardKing]

I think Dame's D is getting a lot better, he blocks a high percentage of jump shots and overall he does a good job of contesting anything near him but man, does he struggle on the pick and roll. One more summer with the Glove ought to do it

 

[BlazerCaravan]

One minor niggle, Damian's defense isn't mediocre, it's bad - like "6 points per 100 possessions worse" kind of bad.

Ah, but, his offense is better than his defense is bad. The ORtg - DRtg differential is +5.1 when he was on the court, and +2.2 when he was off the court, for an overall benefit of +2.9.

Also, how much of his on/off court spread is due to backup point guards generally sucking across the league, and everyone's offense looking worse while the starting point guard is gone?

 

[Wizard Mentor]

One minor niggle, Damian's defense isn't mediocre, it's bad - like "6 points per 100 possessions worse" kind of bad. Pairing him with a smallish shooting guard who is just OK on defense isn't a great idea. That's my only point I was trying to make when I replied to Mags comment above - the team needs a guy on the wing who compliments Damian IMO and helps cover up some of his deficiencies (and hopefully Dame improves at that end of the court).

I'll make a general reply to the replies above, not necessarily specific to you, Nik.

I think there is temptation to compare CJ/Dame to Mr X/Mr Y when the latter were in their primes. CJ and Dames stories are not close to being written. A typical NBA player's peak is at around 29 year old. Dame just turned 24, CJ will turn 24 in 2 more months.

So the question isn't what are they, but what will they become. I'm an admitted Blazer homer so I think/hope that they fully realize their potentials which in the same neighborhood (maybe even higher!) than Mr. X and Mr. Y.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

One minor niggle, Damian's defense isn't mediocre, it's bad - like "6 points per 100 possessions worse" kind of bad. Pairing him with a smallish shooting guard who is just OK on defense isn't a great idea. That's my only point I was trying to make when I replied to Mags comment above - the team needs a guy on the wing who compliments Damian IMO and helps cover up some of his deficiencies (and hopefully Dame improves at that end of the court).

Using the same stat: http://www.82games.com/1415/14POR4.HTM CJ is a good defender (101.1 on, 105.8 off).

 

[LizardKing]

Using the same stat: http://www.82games.com/1415/14POR4.HTM CJ is a good defender (101.1 on, 105.8 off).

Man, screw the stats., use your eyes. CJ runs into screens like they're Goddamn magnets. He and Dame both have a lot of potential to improve and I think they will. Also, Pat Connaughton might just seal the show this year. I have zero qualms about starting him and playing him 20-25. Dude plays the right way

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Man, screw the stats., use your eyes.

I guess opposing SGs coincidentally shoot 43.5% when he's in the game.

 

[LizardKing]

I guess opposing SGs coincidentally shoot 43.5% when he's in the game.

That is indeed part of my "screw the stats" opinion. Also that number sounds overwhelmingly average, is that supposed to be good or bad?

 

[magnifier661]

I'll concede this year's team will be more athletic and I think some of the guys will be better individual defenders (Davis, Aminu) but they are going to be seriously offensively challenged. I'm not sure how Stotts is going to generate offense with this crew.

We must find another scorer. We don't have him right now.

 

[magnifier661]

Maybe. It's hard to imagine he and Dame and CJ starting duo. OTOH,

Dame: 6' 3" great offense, mediocre defense
CJ: 6' 4" (according to wiki) good offense, pretty good defense, from a very small school

reminds me of

Mr X: 6' 1" great offense, mediocre defense
Mr Y: 6' 3" good offense, very good defense, from a very small school

Mr X and Mr Y won championships together, and are both in the hall of fame.

So, while it isn't common, it is doable. I know some of you are going to say that CJ is no Mr. Y, but neither was Mr. Y. He was the 18th draft pick from a small school. Mr Y. averaged 9.4 and 11.8 PPG his first 2 years, and didn't average 18 or more until his 6th year, and only average 20 or more 3 years of his 14 years with a career average of 16.1 PPG.

Are we talking about Dumars and Thomas?