Trent.

[wizenheimer]

There used to be a site tracking assists, with data on who the assist was made to. Does anyone remember what this site was? Completely spacing on it at the moment.

I recall seeing numbers that showed most of Dame's assists were to Nurk, and vice versa. I wonder how much missing Nurk this year is affecting CJ's catch and shoot attempts this season.

last year, in catch & shoot, CJ scored 4.0 pts on 57% eFG; this year it's 4.9 pts on 70% eFG

as far as the assisted by stats, I googled and couldn't find anything....operator error probably. They said on the Blazer broadcast a game or so ago that Dame-to-Whiteside was 2nd in the league in number of assists

 

[Scalma]

Trent is now second on the team in OBPM.

 

[wizenheimer]

Trent is now second on the team in OBPM.

I'm not sure if you noticed but earlier in the thread I posted some spot-up shooting numbers. Both Dame and CJ are in the 86th percentile in spot-up shooting scoring 1.19 points/possession. That's pretty damn good. Well, Trent is in the 96th percentile scoring 1.29 points/possession. That's elite, but of course, we need to see if he cools down (likely) and if teams scout him and adjust defense (guaranteed)

 

[Hoopguru]

2018-19 Hollinger NBA Player Statistics - Shooting Guards
Season:
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League: NBA | East | West
Position: All | PG | SG | SF | PF | C | Rookies | International
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• Team Statistics »

Hollinger Playoff Stats - Player Efficiency Rating - Qualified Shooting Guards
RK PLAYER GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA
1 James Harden, HOU 11 38.5 .567 16.9 11.8 36.1 2.5 17.0 10.0 25.31 90.5 3.0
2 Caris LeVert, BKN 5 28.8 .612 13.5 9.0 26.0 4.0 13.2 8.2 23.22 27.3 0.9
3 Lou Williams, LAC 6 29.3 .533 24.7 9.7 33.4 3.6 7.4 5.4 21.25 28.2 0.9
4 Paul George, OKC 5 40.8 .583 11.1 13.0 28.6 3.1 20.0 11.4 18.60 24.7 0.8
5 CJ McCollum, POR 16 39.7 .527 12.7 6.5 27.1 2.3 11.0 6.7 17.96 70.7 2.4
6 Tyreke Evans, IND 4 21.0 .563 4.8 9.5 29.9 0.0 24.4 11.0 17.73 0.0 0.0
7 Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, LAC 6 28.8 .596 20.5 5.4 17.5 2.4 8.2 5.2 16.60 14.5 0.5
8 Jerome Robinson, LAC 5 9.2 .556 28.9 4.1 16.1 4.6 10.3 7.3 15.69 3.6 0.1
9 Andre Iguodala, GS 21 30.0 .565 29.0 7.3 14.6 5.1 11.4 8.3 15.29 45.0 1.5
10 Klay Thompson, GS 21 39.0 .575 9.6 8.3 20.9 1.7 10.1 6.0 14.60 50.1 1.7
RK PLAYER GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA
11 Luke Kennard, DET 4 33.3 .604 11.7 5.0 16.0 0.0 14.0 6.0 14.00 6.9 0.2
12 Gary Harris, DEN 14 36.9 .569 14.7 5.1 16.0 1.8 10.1 5.9 13.60 23.9 0.8
13 Pat Connaughton, MIL 15 21.6 .578 19.0 8.1 11.7 3.2 24.8 14.4 13.57 14.9 0.5
14 Jaylen Brown, BOS 9 30.4 .624 7.9 12.7 17.1 2.3 16.4 9.7 13.00 10.2 0.3
15 Eric Gordon, HOU 11 37.3 .604 6.9 13.3 19.0 1.4 6.1 3.8 12.76 13.8 0.5
16 Norman Powell, TOR 23 15.9 .558 15.1 7.0 17.2 1.5 13.9 7.7 12.27 9.6 0.3
17 Malik Beasley, DEN 14 20.1 .530 11.0 5.5 17.7 4.0 14.1 9.0 12.12 6.8 0.2
18 Bryn Forbes, SA 7 30.3 .625 10.0 4.3 13.1 0.5 12.1 6.4 11.62 3.5 0.1
19 D'Angelo Russell, BKN 5 29.6 .446 12.8 9.9 32.3 1.3 12.1 6.3 11.60 1.3 0.0
20 Terrence Ross, ORL 5 29.2 .537 8.9 12.7 20.7 0.7 13.7 6.7 11.28 1.7 0.1
RK PLAYER GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA
21 Sterling Brown, MIL 11 14.7 .525 27.2 11.5 13.8 2.6 15.5 9.3 10.67 0.4 0.0
22 Fred VanVleet, TOR 24 24.7 .534 23.6 8.0 15.2 1.3 6.2 3.7 10.40 -5.3 -0.2
23 Shaun Livingston, GS 22 14.6 .517 24.8 6.4 12.9 4.0 6.9 5.5 10.09 -4.4 -0.1
24 Darren Collison, IND 4 29.3 .504 21.7 13.6 22.1 3.4 8.3 5.6 9.99 -1.8 -0.1
25 Joe Ingles, UTAH 5 30.2 .432 35.7 11.4 13.9 2.0 15.2 8.3 9.62 -2.0 -0.1
26 Evan Turner, POR 16 15.3 .409 34.8 12.9 12.8 5.6 25.6 15.6 8.99 -5.5 -0.2
27 JJ Redick, PHI 12 31.3 .606 10.9 12.7 16.9 0.6 4.4 2.6 8.95 -8.7 -0.3
28 Marco Belinelli, SA 7 18.7 .504 15.8 3.9 14.7 0.0 10.6 5.3 8.80 -3.3 -0.1
29 Seth Curry, POR 16 20.4 .518 12.2 6.6 12.2 1.6 6.5 4.1 8.37 -10.4 -0.3
30 Danny Green, TOR 24 28.5 .503 12.0 12.0 11.9 2.7 11.3 7.0 7.72 -28.4 -0.9
RK PLAYER GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA
31 Gerald Green, HOU 11 8.8 .462 2.2 6.5 18.8 0.0 13.5 7.0 7.23 -4.7 -0.2
32 Donovan Mitchell, UTAH 5 38.6 .423 9.8 12.8 31.3 3.7 10.2 6.8 6.83 -10.6 -0.4
33 Langston Galloway, DET 4 27.5 .456 10.0 5.0 13.1 1.6 13.8 6.9 6.78 -6.1 -0.2
34 Landry Shamet, LAC 6 29.0 .542 16.8 11.8 11.5 0.6 7.5 3.8 6.39 -12.0 -0.4
35 Wayne Ellington, DET 4 32.8 .432 11.7 4.7 11.7 2.0 10.7 5.8 5.73 -9.3 -0.3
36 Garrett Temple, LAC 6 10.5 .455 10.3 10.3 10.9 1.7 11.3 6.2 5.31 -4.9 -0.2
37 Evan Fournier, ORL 5 35.0 .427 10.6 12.7 20.6 1.7 8.7 5.0 5.08 -14.2 -0.5
38 Iman Shumpert, HOU 8 13.6 .522 6.1 9.2 11.6 1.1 11.0 6.2 5.00 -8.9 -0.3
39 Bruce Brown, DET 4 14.3 .437 10.6 10.6 11.9 1.6 14.3 7.1 4.65 -5.0 -0.2
40 Raymond Felton, OKC 5 11.4 .396 15.9 10.6 11.5 0.0 5.8 2.9 4.22 -5.3 -0.2
RK PLAYER GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA
41 Wesley Matthews, IND 4 29.8 .447 16.9 16.9 14.5 0.0 10.1 4.6 3.59 -12.3 -0.4
42 Treveon Graham, BKN 5 15.8 .277 16.1 16.1 7.8 2.4 11.3 6.5 0.74 -11.5 -0.4
Glossary

• Players on pace to play 500 or more minutes
• *To qualify: a player must have played 6.09 MPG.
• TS%: True Shooting Percentage - what a player's shooting percentage would be if we accounted for free throws and 3-pointers. True Shooting Percentage = Total points / [(FGA + (0.44 x FTA)]
• AST: Assist Ratio - the percentage of a player's possessions that ends in an assist. Assist Ratio = (Assists x 100) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44) + Assists + Turnovers]
• TO: Turnover Ratio - the percentage of a player's possessions that end in a turnover. Turnover Ratio = (Turnover x 100) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44) + Assists + Turnovers]
• USG: Usage Rate - the number of possessions a player uses per 40 minutes. Usage Rate = {[FGA + (FT Att. x 0.44) + (Ast x 0.33) + TO] x 40 x League Pace} divided by (Minutes x Team Pace)
• ORR: Offensive rebound rate
• DRR: Defensive rebound rate
• REBR: Rebound Rate - the percentage of missed shots that a player rebounds. Rebound Rate = (100 x (Rebounds x Team Minutes)) divided by [Player Minutes x (Team Rebounds + Opponent Rebounds)]
• PER: Player Efficiency Rating is the overall rating of a player's per-minute statistical production. The league average is 15.00 every season.
• VA: Value Added - the estimated number of points a player adds to a team’s season total above what a 'replacement player' (for instance, the 12th man on the roster) would produce. Value Added = ([Minutes * (PER - PRL)] / 67). PRL (Position Replacement Level) = 11.5 for power forwards, 11.0 for point guards, 10.6 for centers, 10.5 for shooting guards and small forwards
• EWA: Estimated Wins Added - Value Added divided by 30, giving the estimated number of wins a player adds to a team’s season total above what a 'replacement player' would produce.
• Player Efficiency Rating (PER) League average: 15.0
• What is PER? »
• How Do Projections Work? »

• Every team these days need a gun slinger!

CJ's was fairly efficient in last years playoffs.

 

[lawai'a]

teams scout him and adjust defense (guaranteed)

guaranteed to open things up for dame. pick your poison.

 

[Scalma]

I'm not sure if you noticed but earlier in the thread I posted some spot-up shooting numbers. Both Dame and CJ are in the 86th percentile in spot-up shooting scoring 1.19 points/possession. That's pretty damn good. Well, Trent is in the 96th percentile scoring 1.29 points/possession. That's elite, but of course, we need to see if he cools down (likely) and if teams scout him and adjust defense (guaranteed)

If teams haven’t adjusted their defense by now, they probably won’t, and we can thank Dame for that. It shouldn’t have taken teams this long to recognize Trents ability to shoot.

 

[tlongII]

He didn’t shoot well tonight.

 

[wizenheimer]

He didn’t shoot well tonight.

nope....but the two baskets he did make were those turn-around-fade-away-post-ups. That will be a weapon for him if he can make that shot consistently. There are enough small guards in the league he should be able to post-up a lot

 

[SIeepwalker]

nope....but the two baskets he did make were those turn-around-fade-away-post-ups. That will be a weapon for him if he can make that shot consistently. There are enough small guards in the league he should be able to post-up a lot

Dude is really Wes 2.0

 

[lawai'a]

nope....but the two baskets he did make were those turn-around-fade-away-post-ups. That will be a weapon for him if he can make that shot consistently. There are enough small guards in the league he should be able to post-up a lot

especially against the nba trending small ball lineups and second units.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Dude is really Wes 2.0

Interesting. I think a turn-back-the-clock healthy Wes would be our starting SF.

 

[wizenheimer]

Interesting. I think a turn-back-the-clock healthy Wes would be our starting SF.

I disagree with that. Blazers are already at a length disadvantage in the back court with Dame and CJ. Portland doesn't need to add to it with the same disadvantage at SF. The starting SF will have to guard players like Durant, Lebron, Kawhi, PG13, Siakam...and they will have to shoot over that kind of length on the other end of the floor. Trent, like Matthews, will be best at SG. I want Portland to have a SF with the length and strength of an Ariza or a Gabriel. Like a Harkless with a lot better offense. Hood is about as small as it should go in the starting unit, but I think Hood's Achilles will limit his impact, unfortunately

ideally, CJ would be traded for an upgrade at one of the forward positions and some significant cap-relief...and maybe a pick. And Trent moves into the starting line-up, kind of replicating a Matthews or a poor man's Klay Thompson. But the Trent part of that equation is still premature hope at this point

 

[PtldPlatypus]

 

[Wizard Mentor]

I disagree with that. Blazers are already at a length disadvantage in the back court with Dame and CJ. Portland doesn't need to add to it with the same disadvantage at SF. The starting SF will have to guard players like Durant, Lebron, Kawhi, PG13, Siakam...and they will have to shoot over that kind of length on the other end of the floor. Trent, like Matthews, will be best at SG. I want Portland to have a SF with the length and strength of an Ariza or a Gabriel. Like a Harkless with a lot better offense. Hood is about as small as it should go in the starting unit, but I think Hood's Achilles will limit his impact, unfortunately

ideally, CJ would be traded for an upgrade at one of the forward positions and some significant cap-relief...and maybe a pick. And Trent moves into the starting line-up, kind of replicating a Matthews or a poor man's Klay Thompson. But the Trent part of that equation is still premature hope at this point

Those players all spend a healthy number of minutes at the 4, and sometimes even the 5. My point is that "going small" is becoming more popular, even with starters.

Agreed that Hood's Achilles is his Achilles

 

[Scalma]

Why my stance has been that he’s more than just a spot shooter. He consistently gets to his spots and does it at his own pace. It’s not flashy but it’s effective. Dare I say it reminds me of a certain someone that used to play here...

 

[illmatic99]

Look at that first play and see how much of a difference it makes when Hassan makes solid contact on the screen and rolls quickly off of it to seal his man. Opens up a wide open lane for Gary.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Why my stance has been that he’s more than just a spot shooter. He consistently gets to his spots and does it at his own pace. It’s not flashy but it’s effective. Dare I say it reminds me of a certain someone that used to play here...

There is no doubt in my mind that he has a better all-around offensive game than Wes. His mid-range game is better, he finishes better, and he handles the ball better.

No doubt Wes had a quick and accurate 3pt shot, but not much else. I thought his post-up game was overrated.

 

[Scalma]

There is no doubt in my mind that he has a better all-around offensive game than Wes. His mid-range game is better, he finishes better, and he handles the ball better.

No doubt Wes had a quick and accurate 3pt shot, but not much else. I thought his post-up game was overrated.

It’s like this for me: there’s nothing Wes does/did offensively that Trent couldn’t also do right now. The defense is already good too and will just get better as he learns everyone’s tendencies a little better.

 

[illmatic99]

Wes' impact was a bit more intangible. His tenacity on defense was infectious. Trent might get there, but he needs to play 30+ pg to do so. Does that happen here with a fully healthy backcourt?

 

[TBpup]

Wes' impact was a bit more intangible. His tenacity on defense was infectious. Trent might get there, but he needs to play 30+ pg to do so. Does that happen here with a fully healthy backcourt?

Probably not....which is why I'm perfectly fine with him at the '2' as a starter and get from CJ help at the wing.

 

[B-Roy]

People are forgetting about how good Wes was.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

People are forgetting about how good Wes was.

Do you not think that @THE HCP could cut together a highlight vid of Trent from this season that's comparable to those highlights from a 28-year-old Matthews?

 

[B-Roy]

Do you not think that @THE HCP could cut together a highlight vid of Trent from this season that's comparable to those highlights from a 28-year-old Matthews?

I don't. A lot of people here are insinuating that Trent is as good now as Matthews in his prime. That's just false.

 

[illmatic99]

Probably not....which is why I'm perfectly fine with him at the '2' as a starter and get from CJ help at the wing.

I need to see more before definitively claiming he can take over that starting 2 guard role.

 

[Scalma]

I don't. A lot of people here are insinuating that Trent is as good now as Matthews in his prime. That's just false.

Trent since being a fixture in the rotation (End of December)
11 PPG (8.7 FGA)
45.5% FG
41% 3PT
1 SPG
0.3 BPG
0.4 TOV

Trent since February 1
13 PPG (10 FGA)
47% FG
43% 3PT
1.4 SPG
0.4 BPG
0.5 TOV

Matthews’ best season (‘13-14, 27 years old)
16.4 PPG (12.3 FGA)
44% FG
39% 3PT
1 SPG
0.2 BPG
1.3 TOV

 

[Propagandist]

People are forgetting about how good Wes was.

I miss that motherfucker.

 

[HailBlazers]

Trent since being a fixture in the rotation (End of December)
11 PPG (8.7 FGA)
45.5% FG
41% 3PT
1 SPG
0.3 BPG
0.4 TOV

Trent since February 1
13 PPG (10 FGA)
47% FG
43% 3PT
1.4 SPG
0.4 BPG
0.5 TOV

Matthews’ best season (‘13-14, 27 years old)
16.4 PPG (12.3 FGA)
44% FG
39% 3PT
1 SPG
0.2 BPG
1.3 TOV

Damn.

 

[tester551]

Trent since being a fixture in the rotation (End of December)
11 PPG (8.7 FGA)
45.5% FG
41% 3PT
1 SPG
0.3 BPG
0.4 TOV

Trent since February 1
13 PPG (10 FGA)
47% FG
43% 3PT
1.4 SPG
0.4 BPG
0.5 TOV

Matthews’ best season (‘13-14, 27 years old)
16.4 PPG (12.3 FGA)
44% FG
39% 3PT
1 SPG
0.2 BPG
1.3 TOV

Some Advanced Stats:

WES ('13-'14)
- PER 15.7
- TS% 0.588
- 3PAr 0.506
- FTr 0.298
- TRB% 5.6
- AST% 10.9
- USG% 19.6
- WS/48 0.142
- BPM 1.9
- VORP 2.7
- Net RTG/100 +8.0

Trent ('19-'20 - season to date)
- PER 12.5
- TS% 0.572
- 3PAr 0.580
- FTr 0.100
- TRB% 4.3
- AST% 6.3
- USG% 15.3
- WS/48 0.083
- BPM -0.5
- VORP 0.4
- Net RTG/100 +2.0

Not to anyone's surprise, the only advantage that Trent has is he shoots the 3 more frequent than Wes did.

Trent is still 2 years younger than Wes was as a rookie - so it's obviously not a fair comparison.... but Trent still has a LOT of ground to make up to even match Wes in either of his first 2 years. Wes' biggest advantage was the intensity that he played with. Trent has shown flashes, but I'd like to see more!

 

[JoshuaHall]

Some Advanced Stats:

WES ('13-'14)
- PER 15.7
- TS% 0.588
- 3PAr 0.506
- FTr 0.298
- TRB% 5.6
- AST% 10.9
- USG% 19.6
- WS/48 0.142
- BPM 1.9
- VORP 2.7
- Net RTG/100 +8.0

Trent ('19-'20 - season to date)
- PER 12.5
- TS% 0.572
- 3PAr 0.580
- FTr 0.100
- TRB% 4.3
- AST% 6.3
- USG% 15.3
- WS/48 0.083
- BPM -0.5
- VORP 0.4
- Net RTG/100 +2.0

Not to anyone's surprise, the only advantage that Trent has is he shoots the 3 more frequent than Wes did.

Trent is still 2 years younger than Wes was as a rookie - so it's obviously not a fair comparison.... but Trent still has a LOT of ground to make up to even match Wes in either of his first 2 years. Wes' biggest advantage was the intensity that he played with. Trent has shown flashes, but I'd like to see more!

If it were possible to adjust those numbers for solely post-December, it would be more interesting I think.

 

[Scalma]

Some Advanced Stats:

WES ('13-'14)
- PER 15.7
- TS% 0.588
- 3PAr 0.506
- FTr 0.298
- TRB% 5.6
- AST% 10.9
- USG% 19.6
- WS/48 0.142
- BPM 1.9
- VORP 2.7
- Net RTG/100 +8.0

Trent ('19-'20 - season to date)
- PER 12.5
- TS% 0.572
- 3PAr 0.580
- FTr 0.100
- TRB% 4.3
- AST% 6.3
- USG% 15.3
- WS/48 0.083
- BPM -0.5
- VORP 0.4
- Net RTG/100 +2.0

Not to anyone's surprise, the only advantage that Trent has is he shoots the 3 more frequent than Wes did.

Trent is still 2 years younger than Wes was as a rookie - so it's obviously not a fair comparison.... but Trent still has a LOT of ground to make up to even match Wes in either of his first 2 years. Wes' biggest advantage was the intensity that he played with. Trent has shown flashes, but I'd like to see more!

I intentionally ignored some of the advanced metrics, specifically BPM because I don’t trust DPM to accurately gauge a players defensive impact, especially when it’s the only metric that suggests a player isn’t good on that end. I use it more to confirm other numbers. For example, DPM rated Matthews as a negative defender in two of his seasons in Portland. Of course that’s bullshit, so it’s safe to ignore it. DRPM also had Matthews as a negative defender in his best season above. So when it comes to advanced defensive metrics, I don’t trust them.

So beyond that, I don’t really see where Wes had clear advantages. The numbers are relatively close (especially when you factor in the difference in usage) and again, we’re comparing a guys prime to a guy that just turned 21.