Politics TRUMP VOWS CONTINUED FIGHT IN AFGHANISTAN; REVERSING STANCE

[Denny Crane]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-08-21-21-22-20

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Reversing his past calls for a speedy exit, President Donald Trump recommitted the United States to the 16-year-old war in Afghanistan, declaring U.S. troops must "fight to win." He pointedly declined to disclose how many more troops will be dispatched to wage America's longest war.

In a prime-time address to unveil his new Afghanistan strategy, Trump said Monday the U.S. would shift away from a "time-based" approach, instead linking its assistance to results and to cooperation from the beleaguered Afghan government, Pakistan and others. He insisted it would be a "regional" strategy that addressed the roles played by other South Asian nations - especially Pakistan's harboring of elements of the Taliban.

"America will work with the Afghan government as long as we see determination and progress," Trump said. "However, our commitment is not unlimited, and our support is not a blank check."

Still, Trump offered few details about how progress would be measured.

 

[Denny Crane]

I really wanted him to announce we're bringing the troops home.

But he learned from Obama's mistake:

Before becoming a candidate, Trump had ardently argued for a quick withdrawal from Afghanistan, calling the war a massive waste of U.S. "blood and treasure" and declaring on Twitter, "Let's get out!" Seven months into his presidency, he said Monday night that though his "original instinct was to pull out," he'd since determined that approach could create a vacuum that terrorists including al-Qaida and the Islamic State would "instantly fill."​

...

On one point - the definition of victory - Trump was unequivocal. He said American troops would "fight to win" by attacking enemies, "crushing" al-Qaida, preventing terror attacks against Americans and "obliterating" the Islamic State group, whose affiliate has gained a foothold in Afghanistan as the U.S. squeezes the extremists in Syria and Iraq.

...

Still, Trump was intent on differentiating his approach from his predecessors - at least in rhetoric. He emphasized there would be no timelines, no hamstringing of the military and no divorcing of Afghanistan from the region's broader problems.​

 

[Denny Crane]

http://www.philly.com/philly/column...n-taliban-mcmaster-troops-obama-20170822.html

After speech, Afghanistan is Trump's war now | Trudy Rubin

In his Monday speech on Afghanistan, President Trump admitted something he’s rarely faced up to: Decisions are “much different” when you are president than in the heat of a campaign.

The president’s original instinct, expressed repeatedly over the years, was to pull any remaining troops out of Afghanistan. The American public is understandably tired of America’s longest war that has dragged on for nearly 16 years. There are no good military options in sight.

Yet after a policy review that dragged on for seven months and bitterly divided the White House, the president finally faced up to grim reality: a full retreat from Afghanistan meant al-Qaeda and ISIS would find safe havens again as the Taliban seized more swaths of the country.

 

[MickZagger]

Wait, are you actually being critical of Trump?

 

[barfo]

I really wanted him to announce we're bringing the troops home.

But he learned from Obama's mistake:

​

So you wanted him to make a mistake? Curious.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Wait, are you actually being critical of Trump?

Yes, I am.

He ran on ending the war, which I see no "victory" of any kind possible. Even if we had a million troops there.

There are a lot of things I'm critical of him on. That doesn't mean that when people in the media write bullshit that they shouldn't be called out.

 

[Denny Crane]

So you wanted him to make a mistake? Curious.

barfo

He's not making the same mistake Obama did, even by staying there. There's no surrender in this, and certainly no utterly (Obama incompetent) fucked up strategy, like announcing an end date so the bad guys can sit tight and wait it out.

 

[barfo]

He's not making the same mistake Obama did, even by staying there. There's no surrender in this, and certainly no utterly (Obama incompetent) fucked up strategy, like announcing an end date so the bad guys can sit tight and wait it out.

You wanted him to announce a withdrawal. You say that's a mistake. So you wanted him to make a mistake.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

You wanted him to announce a withdrawal. You say that's a mistake. So you wanted him to make a mistake.

barfo

I want him to make no mistake if we stay. He's making no mistake after deciding to stay.

What would be a mistake is doing much of what Obama did, all things, in general.

 

[barfo]

I want him to make no mistake if we stay. He's making no mistake after deciding to stay.

What would be a mistake is doing much of what Obama did, all things, in general.

You wanted him to announce a withdrawal. You say announcing a withdrawal would be a mistake.

You seem kind of confused, but it's great that you can support Trump no matter what he does.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

You wanted him to announce a withdrawal. You say announcing a withdrawal would be a mistake.

You seem kind of confused, but it's great that you can support Trump no matter what he does.

barfo

The logic fault is yours.

There's little to be confused about.

IF <--- we're staying, don't make the same mistakes Obama made. So far at least that's what he's doing.

Plus, you inject that somehow I think it's a mistake to stay. It's not what _I_ want, but he's not the first president to keep us there.

 

[barfo]

The logic fault is yours.

There's little to be confused about.

IF <--- we're staying, don't make the same mistakes Obama made. So far at least that's what he's doing.

Plus, you inject that somehow I think it's a mistake to stay. It's not what _I_ want, but he's not the first president to keep us there.

I didn't inject that. You said it yourself, in post #2 of this thread.

I really wanted him to announce we're bringing the troops home.

Obama announced a withdrawal. You think that's a mistake. But you wanted Trump to make the same mistake.

Now you are trying to pretend you didn't say that. SAD!

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

I didn't inject that. You said it yourself, in post #2 of this thread.



Obama announced a withdrawal. You think that's a mistake. But you wanted Trump to make the same mistake.

Now you are trying to pretend you didn't say that. SAD!

barfo

You quote me and then say I said something completely different. Completely different.

"I wanted him to announce we're brining the troops home." in barfo filter means "It's a mistake to stay."

Just wow.

 

[barfo]

You quote me and then say I said something completely different. Completely different.

"I wanted him to announce we're brining the troops home." in barfo filter means "It's a mistake to stay."

Just wow.

Where did I say that you said it was a mistake to stay? Just wow indeed.

What you did say is that you think it is a mistake to announce a withdrawal. And that you wanted Trump to announce a withdrawal.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

So you wanted him to make a mistake? Curious.

barfo

Hoisted upon your own petard.

That means "harmed by your own plan to harm someone else."

 

[barfo]

Hoisted upon your own petard.

That means "harmed by your own plan to harm someone else."

Too bad it makes no sense in this context.

You wanted him to make the mistake of announcing a withdrawal. No matter how many times you deny you said that, it's right there in post #2.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Too bad it makes no sense in this context.

You wanted him to make the mistake of announcing a withdrawal. No matter how many times you deny you said that, it's right there in post #2.

barfo

Trying to backpedal?

I didn't want him to announce a withdrawal. I wanted him to say" the troops are already on their way home."

Not "we'll be leaving in 6 months."

No matter how many times you translate me, you get it wrong.

 

[Denny Crane]

To his credit, we're done with nation building. That's a giant step in the right direction.

 

[Minstrel]

I didn't want him to announce a withdrawal. I wanted him to say" the troops are already on their way home."

Not "we'll be leaving in 6 months."

Oh, yes, that makes a lot of sense. Saying "We'll be leaving in 6 months" emboldens the enemy to wait it out. Saying "They're already on the way home," on the other hand, means the enemy doesn't have to wait at all. Denny's all about making things as convenient as possible for the enemy.

 

[Denny Crane]

Oh, yes, that makes a lot of sense. Saying "We'll be leaving in 6 months" emboldens the enemy to wait it out. Saying "They're already on the way home," on the other hand, means the enemy doesn't have to wait at all. Denny's all about making things as convenient as possible for the enemy.

6 months (or longer) is a waste of time.

Your post is moronic.

 

[Denny Crane]

Maybe Trump will stop bombing our ally (Pakistan).

What he did announce is a stronger diplomatic effort to get Pakistan to be more proactive.

 

[riverman]

Trump when elected empowered his generals to wage war as they saw fit.....they started losing serious ground in Afghanistan since....now Kelly says to Trump...we need to send in more troops to stop the embarrassment....Trump says....Where's Afghanistan?

 

[Denny Crane]

“I commend President Trump for taking a big step in the right direction with the new strategy for Afghanistan,” the Senate Armed Services chairman said in a statement. “The unfortunate truth is that this strategy is long overdue, and in the interim, the Taliban have made dangerous inroads. Nevertheless, I believe the President is now moving us well beyond the prior administration’s failed strategy of merely postponing defeat.” – (John McCain) The Hill

 

[Denny Crane]

If McCain backs it, it's probably not good.

 

[barfo]

To his credit, we're done with nation building. That's a giant step in the right direction.

Hah. That's what Obama said too.

barfo

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Watched the address last night. I is hard to tell if he is selling out to the establishment swamp monsters, or giving the Generals the latitude to prosecute the war as needed.

His speech seemed disjointed, almost Jekyll/Hyde. The one thing that I came away with was that he did not make the mistake of past administrations by telegraphing every move.

 

[Minstrel]

Your post is moronic.

What I like about you is your sensitive soul and your cries for civility.

Also, you still didn't address your non-point about how a six-month drawdown "emboldens the enemy" because they just have to wait it out, but announcing that the troops are already gone somehow doesn't, even though that means they don't have to wait at all.

 

[Denny Crane]

Hah. That's what Obama said too.

barfo

https://www.thenation.com/article/secret-nation-building-boom-obama-years/

The Secret Nation-Building Boom of the Obama Years
As the infrastructure of many U.S. cities crumbles, the Pentagon continues to pump over a billion dollars into military bases throughout the Middle East.

The Pentagon awarded $667.2 million in contracts in 2012 and more than $1 billion during Barack Obama’s first term in office for construction projects in largely autocratic Middle Eastern nations, according to figures provided to TomDispatch by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Middle East District (USACE-MED). More than $178 million in similar funding is already anticipated for 2013. These contracts represent a mix of projects, including expanding and upgrading military bases used by U.S. troops in the region, building facilities for indigenous security forces and launching infrastructure projects meant to improve the lives of local populations.

The figures are telling, but far from complete. They do not, for example, cover any of the billions spent on work at the more than 1,000 U.S. and coalition bases, outposts and other facilities in Afghanistan or the thousands more manned by local forces. They also leave out construction projects undertaken in the region by other military services like the U.S. Air Force, as well as money spent at an unspecified number of bases in the Middle East that the Corps of Engineers “has no involvement with,” according to Joan Kibler, chief of the Middle East District’s public affairs office.

 

[Denny Crane]

What I like about you is your sensitive soul and your cries for civility.

Also, you still didn't address your non-point about how a six-month drawdown "emboldens the enemy" because they just have to wait it out, but announcing that the troops are already gone somehow doesn't, even though that means they don't have to wait at all.

I criticized your post. It is moronic. This one is slightly better, but devoid of Reason.

Leaving now doesn't put our troops in harm's way any longer. Leaving at any time might mean the enemy might strengthen (though they're getting stronger as is, and lots of troops or minimal numbers of troops hasn't won this thing in 17 years).

We can still bomb the shit out of the bad guys with drones and from aircraft carriers, should they regroup.

I don't want to leave behind a stash of weapons that the Taliban will end up using. THAT would be repeating a mistake of the prior administration.

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm dubious about the prospect that Trump has stopped bombing all the places Obama did. At least he isn't expanding the war into several additional states as the Nobel Peace Prize (LOL) winner did.