OT "TrumpBook"...

[Chris Craig]

So, just because I have religious beliefs, based upon what the Bible clearly says, I should never consider owning a business that could include making a custom wedding cake for a gay couple? What if were a minister and they asked me to marry them? Based upon your premise, it would be a sin to turn them down.

The Bible also says not to judge others.

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."

"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

"Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven"

 

[ABM]

The Bible also says not to judge others.

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."

"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

"Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven"

For me not selling a custom wedding cake to a gay couple is not judging others. I think you're missing on that point. I already said previously if they came into the shop and purchased an already made cake, no problemo. As an aside, when Jesus told those wanting to stone the prostitute, "Let the one with no sin in their lives cast the first stone"......he also told the prostitute, "Go and sin no more." Quite the dichotomy it might seem. Jesus just being Jesus, though.

 

[Chris Craig]

For me not selling a custom wedding cake to a gay couple is not judging others. I think you're missing on that point. I already said previously if they came into the shop and purchased an already made cake, no problemo. As an aside, when Jesus told those wanting to stone the prostitute, "Let the one with no sin in their lives cast the first stone"......he also told the prostitute, "Go and sin no more." Quite the dichotomy it might seem. Jesus just being Jesus, though.

But, it is. You won't make a cake for a gay couple because they are gay. That is a judgment is it not? I am sure that your rejoinder will be that you are not judging, just abiding by your religion.

Does the Bible really say being gay is Wrong? Sure, you have the parable of Sodom and Gomorrah. Or perhaps the laws of leviticus which have been retranslated over and over again so that its original meaning is now faded beyond seeing.

If it's wrong why isn't one of the 10 commandments thou shalt not be gay?

I am not trying in anyway to step on your beliefs. Just trying to understand.

I grew up going to church. I have studied the Bible both from a theologic and Historical perspective. My point of view on Christianity is a bit different than your's.

As I see it, you may think being gay is Wrong. You can believe abortions are wrong etc. You can decide to not practice those things yourself while not judging others who may do it. Because that is not for you or I. God is judge right? Let him judge then.

Yet, you are casting stones.

 

[ABM]

But, it is. You won't make a cake for a gay couple because they are gay. That is a judgment is it not? I am sure that your rejoinder will be that you are not judging, just abiding by your religion.

Does the Bible really say being gay is Wrong? Sure, you have the parable of Sodom and Gomorrah. Or perhaps the laws of leviticus which have been retranslated over and over again so that its original meaning is now faded beyond seeing.

If it's wrong why isn't one of the 10 commandments thou shalt not be gay?

I am not trying in anyway to step on your beliefs. Just trying to understand.

I grew up going to church. I have studied the Bible both from a theologic and Historical perspective. My point of view on Christianity is a bit different than your's.

As I see it, you may think being gay is Wrong. You can believe abortions are wrong etc. You can decide to not practice those things yourself while not judging others who may do it. Because that is not for you or I. God is judge right? Let him judge then.

Yet, you are casting stones.

God created man and woman. God created the covenant and sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. That's what it says in my Bible. I'm not going to tell you how to believe.

 

[Chris Craig]

God created man and woman. God created the covenant and sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. That's what it says in my Bible. I'm not going to tell you how to believe.

All bibles say most of that. Not trying to tell you how or what to believe. Just trying to have a conversation.

 

[ABM]

All bibles say most of that. Not trying to tell you how or what to believe. Just trying to have a conversation.

I think it's fair to say that you're interpreting these things differently than I. I really don't see either of us changing the other's beliefs regarding this matter. Let's just agree to disagree. OK? Thank you.

 

[Chris Craig]

I think it's fair to say that you're interpreting these things differently than I. I really don't see either of us changing the other's beliefs regarding this matter. Let's just agree to disagree. OK? Thank you.

Fair enough

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

 

[Lanny]

So, just because I have religious beliefs, based upon what the Bible clearly says, I should never consider owning a business that could include making a custom wedding cake for a gay couple? What if were a minister and they asked me to marry them? Based upon your premise, it would be a sin to turn them down.

The Bible says nothing about homosexuality. Just ask the Episcopal Church aka The Church of England. We have homosexual priests. Do you think that organization studies the Bible?

 

[Lanny]

View attachment 38484

1. Biden does stand with Israel;
2. Biden says Israel must stay within international law.

 

[ABM]

The Bible says nothing about homosexuality. Just ask the Episcopal Church aka The Church of England. We have homosexual priests. Do you think that organization studies the Bible?

People interpret the Bible in many ways, Lanny. I'll just have to disagree with you, as well, and move on. This won't in any way change my dinner plans with you, big fella.

 

[ABM]

The Bible says nothing about homosexuality. Just ask the Episcopal Church aka The Church of England. We have homosexual priests. Do you think that organization studies the Bible?

You're a Catholic, correct? Here's one of many pieces written from the Catholic perspective:

https://www.ncregister.com/blog/do-...I8GZzkQKuXcyoSxAktsUYm3xoRz-J7KhoCIFcQAvD_BwE

 

[ABM]

In other words, I'll be a bigot if I want to and ain't nothing anyone can say to change me! Right on! A man with conviction.

I totally disagree with your assessment.

For, perhaps, a little more context: If I were a doctor and someone came into my office wanting a sex change, I wouldn't do it, based upon my convictions. However, if that same person had had that procedure performed somewhere else, then later came into my office for any other medical need, I'd absolutely serve him/her.

 

[Lanny]

People interpret the Bible in many ways, Lanny. I'll just have to disagree with you, as well, and move on. This won't in any way change my dinner plans with you, big fella.

Nor mine.
As a side note for all in here, except me because I'm perfect, we really need to distinguish between fact and our opinions.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I totally disagree with your assessment.

For, perhaps, a little more context: If I were a doctor and someone came into my office wanting a sex change, I wouldn't do it, based upon my convictions. However, if that same person had had that procedure performed somewhere else, then later came into my office for any other medical need, I'd absolutely serve him/her.

What if these "convictions" of yours were based on skin color instead of gender identity or sexual preference?

 

[julius]

I totally disagree with your assessment.

For, perhaps, a little more context: If I were a doctor and someone came into my office wanting a sex change, I wouldn't do it, based upon my convictions. However, if that same person had had that procedure performed somewhere else, then later came into my office for any other medical need, I'd absolutely serve him/her.

If you were a doctor that specialized in sex changes, then your "conviction" argument here makes no sense.

Following the logic of your argument, it'd be like if someone who worked at Franz Bread complained that a gay couple came in and asked them to make them a cake for their wedding and they said "well, I won't make you a cake for your wedding!!!" when you make bread.

because you see, your point makes no sense. If you're a doctor who does sex changes, it would mean you're already OK with people having sex changes otherwise you wouldn't be a doctor who can perform sex changes. As you know, it's not like sex changes are something that just any doctor can do.

It seems a weird way just to make yourself not feel bad about just not liking those homos.

 

[julius]

What if these "convictions" of yours were based on skin color instead of gender identity or sexual preference?

I'm sure there's a passage in the bible that can validate those "convictions" too.

 

[Lanny]

What if these "convictions" of yours were based on skin color instead of gender identity or sexual preference?

He bases his conviction on his interpretation of the Bible which says nothing about skin color, unless you're reading the book of Mormon.

 

[Lanny]

I'm sure there's a passage in the bible that can validate those "convictions" too.

No, skin color is not in the Bible unless you include the Book of Mormon.

 

[julius]

No, skin color is not in the Bible unless you include the Book of Mormon.

Not being the bible (or being contradicted in the bible) has never stopped them before.

 

[ABM]

If you were a doctor that specialized in sex changes, then your "conviction" argument here makes no sense.

The operative word here is "if'". The answers is I wouldn't be. Ever.

 

[ABM]

He bases his conviction on his interpretation of the Bible which says nothing about skin color, unless you're reading the book of Mormon.

Thank you.

 

[ABM]

Not being the bible (or being contradicted in the bible) has never stopped them before.

Me ain't them.

 

[julius]

The operative word here is "if'". The answers is I wouldn't be. Ever.

that's like saying "if I was ever an astronaut, and my co-pilot wanted me to bake him a cake for his gay wedding, I wouldn't".

 

[SlyPokerDog]

He bases his conviction on his interpretation of the Bible which says nothing about skin color, unless you're reading the book of Mormon.

But what about divorce? He's divorced, I'm guessing his new wife is divorced, the bible is pretty clear on divorce. If his convictions are only selective why is he drawing the line there?

Is god really going to send him to hell over selling a cake? What about serving a piece of cake to gay friends? Can he even have gay friends? What if there is a gay couple that are previously divorced but now getting married? Does the divorce make the gay marriage part okay?

WHAT IF THEY WANT PIE INSTEAD OF CAKE?!?! Is that okay in the bible?

 

[RR7]

But what about divorce? He's divorced,

Wait really?! Talk about selective interpretation. But, then again, that's a lot of the religious people I've met.

 

[ABM]

that's like saying "if I was ever an astronaut, and my co-pilot wanted me to bake him a cake for his gay wedding, I wouldn't".

No even close.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

@SlyPokerDog Asking @ABM Uncomfortable Questions for $500.

Nah, I just think that of all the evil and cruel shit one human can do to another human god/jesus/etc isn't going to give 2 shits if you baked a cake for a gay couple.

 

[ABM]

But what about divorce? He's divorced, I'm guessing his new wife is divorced, the bible is pretty clear on divorce. If his convictions are only selective why is he drawing the line there?

My wife is a widow. And if you truly understood the situation of my divorce, you wouldn't be bringing it into this context. That said, there were clergy that wouldn't marry is because of said divorce. I totally respected their convictions and didn't press. I wish you'd respect my opinions/convictions on this matter rather than paint me as someone I'm not.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

My wife is a widow. And if you truly understood the situation of my divorce, you wouldn't be bringing it into this context. That said, there were clergy that wouldn't marry is because of said divorce. I totally respected their convictions and didn't press. I wish you'd respect my opinions/convictions on this matter rather than paint me as someone I'm not.

Wasn't trying to paint you as someone you're not. I only used divorce because I remembered you were. I could have gone with tattoos, being left-handed, mixing the fibers of your clothing, or some of the other interesting things in the bible.