Politics #trumpshutdown

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riverman said:
America is all about providing safe sanctuary for those fleeing injustice elsewhere in the world
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And our government, in its own particular brand of wisdom, has set up processes to do help them do so. And those who complete the processes are able to stay in "safe sanctuary", for the most part (don't go to Baltimore or CHI, for instance...)

...we have courts backlogged with these cases...the last figure I saw was 50k cases pending.....not enough judges and lawyers to process them.
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I believe you. But let's take a step back on this? Why must cases go before judges? Because even the people who vote for these laws and processes know that not everyone is lily-clean, and that everyone must be screened. By definition, some percentage of those cases will (when eventually judged) show that people shouldn't be here. So you can't just give blanket amnesty without endangering people who are already citizens and already contributing to America...however you define that. I don't think you'd find anyone who doesn't say "put more judges on these cases". I think you are seeing the fight about laziness: "Eff it...there's too much of a backlog and it's too hard to get in, just let everyone in." I for one have seen enough of the world to know that's suicide.

Some of these families fled here from Noriega's death squads, etc....so an El Salvadorian child born here from refugee parents that is 40, has a career and raised a family here is now to be deported? I don't know about you brian but that leaves a bad taste in my mouth...so many of our forefathers came here in similar fashion from Europe and elsewhere...are they really a problem? I don't think so......they should not be lumped in with cartel criminals who do business and reside here...it sets a bad precedent for the promise on the statue of liberty
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I work with orphanages, both in the US and abroad. Every one of them has an "expiration date"--changes from place to place--but when you turn 16/18/whatever, you can't stay unsupported at the orphanage anymore. The children are taught to prepare for the day when they are not under the protection of the facility any more...they get job skills, language (English for the children abroad), placement help, etc. If you want to keep living there to help with the younger children, in some places, you can "live" at the site but start paying rent/meals/workshare, etc.
Did "we" as America let these people down, letting them think that they didn't need to prepare for the day when either a) they went back or b) applied for citizenship? Is there any personal responsibility there? I don't know many of the specifics of this program or the anecdotal stories you bring up, but did no one tell them when, I don't know, they applied for a driver's license or SSN or join the military or whatever -- "Hey, dude, you're not a citizen! Maybe you should get that checked out!"
I know you're a world traveller as well, have you ever been somewhere as lenient as the US in taking in immigrants, asylum-seekers, whatever?
 
BrianFromWA said:
Did "we" as America let these people down, letting them think that they didn't need to prepare for the day when either a) they went back or b) applied for citizenship?
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Refugees more often than not show up with no birth certificates or even basic language skills here...many if not most Chinese immigrated to the US for hundreds of years without even bothering to learn English....both of my parents were dust bowl orphans and my forefathers from Ireland were conscripted into the army for citizenship pretty much during the civil war..both of my parents were dust bowl depression era orphans who reunited with their siblings after reaching adulthood..that's not just an immigration dilemma...Trump has taken the stance that if you're white and have skills or Asian and have skills we want you but if you are from a war torn country or destitute and of color.....you have aids and are shithole people.....I'm really angered by this turn of events......Hispanics in my neck of the woods are clean, good living hard working folks....the problem here is with the meth heads and they are mostly local white folks....DACA is for dealing with the process of making the children of refugees feel unafraid to go through the system without losing their jobs, homes etc....sure there are plenty of people who abuse the system....don't think americans don't do that overseas as well....many ex pats work under the table overseas avoiding paying foreign taxes and lie about their visa status for extensions.....I have yet to gain even a small amount of trust in the current administrations ability to be truthful or honest and corruption free...the GNP and Wall Street aren't clouding my judgement about this as much as Trump touts it as a great success
 
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Uhhhh, this is the FIRST time I've seen anything about DACA kids being children of refugees. Learn something new everyday.
 
bodyman5000 and 1 said:
Uhhhh, this is the FIRST time I've seen anything about DACA kids being children of refugees. Learn something new everyday.
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good to hear...see Haitian disaster as well or go back further and read up on the potato famine in Ireland or holocaust in Germany....refugees built this country
 
riverman said:
Refugees more often than not show up with no birth certificates or even basic language skills here...many if not most Chinese immigrated to the US for hundreds of years without even bothering to learn English....both of my parents were dust bowl orphans and my forefathers from Ireland were conscripted into the army for citizenship pretty much during the civil war..both of my parents were dust bowl depression era orphans who reunited with their siblings after reaching adulthood..that's not just an immigration dilemma...Trump has taken the stance that if you're white and have skills or Asian and have skills we want you but if you are from a war torn country or destitute and of color.....you have aids and are shithole people.....I'm really angered by this turn of events......Hispanics in my neck of the woods are clean, good living hard working folks....the problem here is with the meth heads and they are mostly local white folks
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I have this dilemma with many of my Afghan friends and interpreters...do we help all the smart, hardworking ones come here and leave their country even more destitute? Do we block someone from coming to the US where they can make 100k a year as an interpreter with medical and flight training, leaving them to an existence of $15 a day? Do I not fight for a 3y/o girl, who has a condition with a 99% mortality rate in AFG, a 20% mortality rate in Pakistan but is an outpatient procedure in the US, to come here? Or once she's here and "fixed", to send her back to a place that she'll be lucky to make it to 5?
I stand by the thought that, while very un-PC, if you substitute "third world, developing" countries with "shithole" the comments very much stand logically.
I don't usually mix meme-worthy with real discussion, but too much of this was true for me not to think of it:
Subject: MILITARY PERSONNEL DEPLOYMENT BRIEFINGS

1. If the Command tells you to update your Gamma Globulin, Yellow Fever,Malaria, Dysentery, Tetanus and other fun immunizations- You might be deploying to a shithole.
2. If the Mobilization NCO tells you not to waste your time bringing a radio, or any other electronics, as there is no electricity and there are no signals. You might be going to a shithole.
3. If the Travel Pay folks give you a travel advance and the Per Diem rate is only $8.00/day, for everything- You might be deploying to a Shit Hole. (Note, if you went to Puerto Rico for the reconstruction, it was ~300/day for hotel and 80/day meals and incidentals. Afghanistan was $3/day for everything, because they "gave us food and chow". Mostly.
4. If the “Area Cultural” briefing is only 30 minutes long, but the briefing on communicable diseases is 3 hours long- You might be deploying to a Shit Hole.
5. If the “Area Cultural” briefing includes facts that some leaders in the host country keep young boys as sexual slaves- You might be deploying to a Shit Hole.
6. If the “Area Cultural” briefing includes facts that male members of that society have multiple wives, but also engage in sexual activity with barnyard animals- You might be deploying to a Shit Hole.
7. If the “Medical Briefing” includes recommendations not to walk barefoot, drink the local water, or eat ANY food on the local economy- You might be deploying to a Shit Hole.
8. If the “Medical Briefing” includes information that the roadside ditches not only serve as flood control, but also as a common latrine-You might be deploying to a Shit Hole.
9. If the Daily Report for your new assignment includes an area for “Number of Personnel Med-Evaced” from theater for unknown diseases-You might be deploying to a Shit Hole.
 
riverman said:
good to hear...see Haitian disaster as well or go back further and read up on the potato famine in Ireland or holocaust in Germany....refugees built this country
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Oh, you really believe the DACA kids are children of refugees? I thought you would know more about this than most. Guess I was wrong.
 
The hypocrisy in government has reached critical mass. It was hilarious seeing clips of Pelosi and Schumer talking about how you don't shut down the government over policy issues. I guess 2013 was a different time in history. Hahahahahahaha
 
bodyman5000 and 1 said:
Oh, you really believe the DACA kids are children of refugees?
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you're fishing here.....many Americans are children of refugees...and yes....many Central Americans fled cartel violence and war to find sanctuary here...we used to honor that.....our new leader has more of a racist take on immigration policy...it disgusts me
 
bodyman5000 and 1 said:
Oh, you really believe the DACA kids are children of refugees?
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Many are.....I stated that some are not.....out of 700,000 residing here you're going to find some who abuse the system...DACA opens the door to changing their status.....
 
riverman said:
Many are.....I stated that some are not.....out of 700,000 residing here you're going to find some who abuse the system...DACA opens the door to changing their status.....
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Not even the Republicans are against DACA kids getting to stay. Maybe if you could state what the Republicans want for making that happen I'd be able to understand why you think shutting down the government is a good idea.
 
bodyman5000 and 1 said:
Not even the Republicans are against DACA kids getting to stay. Maybe if you could state what the Republicans want for making that happen I'd be able to understand why you think shutting down the government is a good idea.
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I have never stated that shutting down govt was a good idea.....Trump changes his position on it every other tweet....this was partisan sabre rattling at the expense of keeping govt funded.....Trump and his staff haven't even completed financial disclosures from his top cabinet members....it's show me the money time and your fearless leader has ghosts in the closet...he keeps his fortune in a German bank you know....very patriotic eh
 
riverman said:
I have never stated that shutting down govt was a good idea.....Trump changes his position on it every other tweet....this was partisan sabre rattling at the expense of keeping govt funded.....Trump and his staff haven't even completed financial disclosures from his top cabinet members....it's show me the money time and your fearless leader has ghosts in the closet...he keeps his fortune in a German bank you know....very patriotic eh
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What's your opinion on space exploration?
 
bodyman5000 and 1 said:
What's your opinion on space exploration?
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not at the expense of dealing with earth's problems first....infrastructure and global warming...de-escalation of nuclear threats..these are to be priorities for funding....if we can evolve here on earth and manage this planet....then maybe we'll be prepared for space exploration...as it is I don't think we're there yet...lot of space junk orbiting the planet right now...I do want to keep the Hubble telescope in shape and keep learning but now's not a time for expansion in my view
 
Reading this thread makes it hard to even understand the actual chain of events.

Correct me if I'm wrong

They had a clean short term funding bill that Democrats wouldn't likely oppose but they are filibustering. Not like the old days of having to actually take the floor but new rules where they just get to call it a filibuster and then they need 60 votes to stop it.

Is that wrong?
 
BrianFromWA said:
I have this dilemma with many of my Afghan friends and interpreters...do we help all the smart, hardworking ones come here and leave their country even more destitute? Do we block someone from coming to the US where they can make 100k a year as an interpreter with medical and flight training, leaving them to an existence of $15 a day? Do I not fight for a 3y/o girl, who has a condition with a 99% mortality rate in AFG, a 20% mortality rate in Pakistan but is an outpatient procedure in the US, to come here? Or once she's here and "fixed", to send her back to a place that she'll be lucky to make it to 5?
I stand by the thought that, while very un-PC, if you substitute "third world, developing" countries with "shithole" the comments very much stand logically.
I don't usually mix meme-worthy with real discussion, but too much of this was true for me not to think of it:
Subject: MILITARY PERSONNEL DEPLOYMENT BRIEFINGS

1. If the Command tells you to update your Gamma Globulin, Yellow Fever,Malaria, Dysentery, Tetanus and other fun immunizations- You might be deploying to a shithole.
2. If the Mobilization NCO tells you not to waste your time bringing a radio, or any other electronics, as there is no electricity and there are no signals. You might be going to a shithole.
3. If the Travel Pay folks give you a travel advance and the Per Diem rate is only $8.00/day, for everything- You might be deploying to a Shit Hole. (Note, if you went to Puerto Rico for the reconstruction, it was ~300/day for hotel and 80/day meals and incidentals. Afghanistan was $3/day for everything, because they "gave us food and chow". Mostly.
4. If the “Area Cultural” briefing is only 30 minutes long, but the briefing on communicable diseases is 3 hours long- You might be deploying to a Shit Hole.
5. If the “Area Cultural” briefing includes facts that some leaders in the host country keep young boys as sexual slaves- You might be deploying to a Shit Hole.
6. If the “Area Cultural” briefing includes facts that male members of that society have multiple wives, but also engage in sexual activity with barnyard animals- You might be deploying to a Shit Hole.
7. If the “Medical Briefing” includes recommendations not to walk barefoot, drink the local water, or eat ANY food on the local economy- You might be deploying to a Shit Hole.
8. If the “Medical Briefing” includes information that the roadside ditches not only serve as flood control, but also as a common latrine-You might be deploying to a Shit Hole.
9. If the Daily Report for your new assignment includes an area for “Number of Personnel Med-Evaced” from theater for unknown diseases-You might be deploying to a Shit Hole.
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:smiley-eek2:
 
BrianFromWA said:
I have this dilemma with many of my Afghan friends and interpreters...do we help all the smart, hardworking ones come here and leave their country even more destitute? Do we block someone from coming to the US where they can make 100k a year as an interpreter with medical and flight training, leaving them to an existence of $15 a day? Do I not fight for a 3y/o girl, who has a condition with a 99% mortality rate in AFG, a 20% mortality rate in Pakistan but is an outpatient procedure in the US, to come here? Or once she's here and "fixed", to send her back to a place that she'll be lucky to make it to 5?
I stand by the thought that, while very un-PC, if you substitute "third world, developing" countries with "shithole" the comments very much stand logically.
I don't usually mix meme-worthy with real discussion, but too much of this was true for me not to think of it:
Subject: MILITARY PERSONNEL DEPLOYMENT BRIEFINGS

1. If the Command tells you to update your Gamma Globulin, Yellow Fever,Malaria, Dysentery, Tetanus and other fun immunizations- You might be deploying to a shithole.
2. If the Mobilization NCO tells you not to waste your time bringing a radio, or any other electronics, as there is no electricity and there are no signals. You might be going to a shithole.
3. If the Travel Pay folks give you a travel advance and the Per Diem rate is only $8.00/day, for everything- You might be deploying to a Shit Hole. (Note, if you went to Puerto Rico for the reconstruction, it was ~300/day for hotel and 80/day meals and incidentals. Afghanistan was $3/day for everything, because they "gave us food and chow". Mostly.
4. If the “Area Cultural” briefing is only 30 minutes long, but the briefing on communicable diseases is 3 hours long- You might be deploying to a Shit Hole.
5. If the “Area Cultural” briefing includes facts that some leaders in the host country keep young boys as sexual slaves- You might be deploying to a Shit Hole.
6. If the “Area Cultural” briefing includes facts that male members of that society have multiple wives, but also engage in sexual activity with barnyard animals- You might be deploying to a Shit Hole.
7. If the “Medical Briefing” includes recommendations not to walk barefoot, drink the local water, or eat ANY food on the local economy- You might be deploying to a Shit Hole.
8. If the “Medical Briefing” includes information that the roadside ditches not only serve as flood control, but also as a common latrine-You might be deploying to a Shit Hole.
9. If the Daily Report for your new assignment includes an area for “Number of Personnel Med-Evaced” from theater for unknown diseases-You might be deploying to a Shit Hole.
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If you can jump through those hoops, the government will consider you for undercover promotion to Editor-in-Chief of a rough Off-Topic message board full of killers, thieves, and general vagrants rated at 50% moron level...without you even knowing that they put you there.
 
It was a Lebanon crisis as I recall, the entire 7th fleet was assembled mid Pacific to await new developments. We had put bunch of Marines and Army troop in Lebanon and everyone expected the crap to fill the gap! Damnedest show of the Navy I had seen at that time. We mustered on deck one morning, there were 6 Aircraft carriers in sight, 10 Cruisers, and too many Destroyer to count. I suspect there were more Destroyers than exist in the US Navy today, as we had over 200 total in those days. I doubt any missed the rendezvous, as this was an all hand on deck deal. Anyway we remain in area several days, waiting for developments when the Chinese began shelling Quemoy. A Nationalist held Island near the mainland from Taiwan or Formosa as it was call in that day. So the Shangri La and the Essex were dispatch to the scene which included my ship as part of the Shangri La Battle group.

As I recall, this was early July of that year, and we had gone to sea from Yokuska for an exercise that was to be just a few days. The orders came to head for the rendezvous while at sea, so we were in no way provisioned for extended sea duty. So by the time we got to the Formosa Strait, we had been at sea for a month with no end in sight. Not nearly enough supply ships in the 7th fleet to meet with all these ships.

Damn! Chow got so thin, the weevils in the bread looked good! Shit on shingle would have been very welcome.

We finally got relieved, to return to Yokuska in October, but we had to stop at the first port possible to get provisions, Kagoshima before continuing on to Yokuska.
 
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MarAzul said:
It was a Lebanon crisis as I recall, the entire 7th fleet was assembled mid Pacific to await new developments. We had put bunch of Marines and Army troop in Lebanon and everyone expected the crap to fill the gap! Damnedest show of the Navy I had seen at that time. We we mustered on deck one morning, there were 6 Aircraft carriers in sight, 10 Cruisers, and too many Destroyer to count. I suspect there were more Destroyers than exist in the US Navy today, as we had over 200 total in those days. I doubt any missed the rendezvous, as this was an all hand on deck deal. Anyway we remain in area several days, waiting for developments when the Chinese began shelling Quemoy. A Nationalist held Island near the mainland from Taiwan or Formosa as it was call in that day. So the Shangri La and the Essex were dispatch to the scene which included my ship as part of the Shangri La Battle group.

As I recall, this was early July of that year, and we had gone to sea from Yokuska for an exercise that was to be just a few days. The orders came to head for the rendezvous while at sea, so we were in no way provisioned for extended sea duty. So by the time we got to the Formosa Strait, we had been at sea for a month with no end in sight. Not nearly enough supply ships in the 7th fleet to meet with all these ships.

Damn! Chow got so thin, the weevils in the bread looked good! Shit on shingle would have been very welcome.

We finally got relieved, to return to Yokuska in October, but we had to stop at the first port possible to get provisions, Kagoshima before continuing on to Yokuska.
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great story.....never understood why the Navy didn't supply fishing poles or just drag a net once in awhile..lotta food in the Taiwan Strait
 
MarAzul said:
It was a Lebanon crisis as I recall, the entire 7th fleet was assembled mid Pacific to await new developments. We had put bunch of Marines and Army troop in Lebanon and everyone expected the crap to fill the gap! Damnedest show of the Navy I had seen at that time. We we mustered on deck one morning, there were 6 Aircraft carriers in sight, 10 Cruisers, and too many Destroyer to count. I suspect there were more Destroyers than exist in the US Navy today, as we had over 200 total in those days. I doubt any missed the rendezvous, as this was an all hand on deck deal. Anyway we remain in area several days, waiting for developments when the Chinese began shelling Quemoy. A Nationalist held Island near the mainland from Taiwan or Formosa as it was call in that day. So the Shangri La and the Essex were dispatch to the scene which included my ship as part of the Shangri La Battle group.

As I recall, this was early July of that year, and we had gone to sea from Yokuska for an exercise that was to be just a few days. The orders came to head for the rendezvous while at sea, so we were in no way provisioned for extended sea duty. So by the time we got to the Formosa Strait, we had been at sea for a month with no end in sight. Not nearly enough supply ships in the 7th fleet to meet with all these ships.

Damn! Chow got so thin, the weevils in the bread looked good! Shit on shingle would have been very welcome.

We finally got relieved, to return to Yokuska in October, but we had to stop at the first port possible to get provisions, Kagoshima before continuing on to Yokuska.
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Naw! I have to be wrong about the number of Destroyers rendezvousing. We probably only had 40 to 45 total in the 7th fleet.
 
Chris Craig said:
Republicans control the senate...obviously some republicans said no and thus caused the shutdown....
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That's a lie your MSNfakenewscrew, and the liars Schumer/Pelosi... throw out because they know libs believe anything they say.

They have 51 senators and they need 60 votes to pass the budget.

Doesn't anyone study how our government works in middle school or high school at least.

Public schools used to be worth something.
 
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