Politics Turning GA, NC, NV, and/or PA into victory (Biden vs Trump, 2020 election!) (2 Viewers)

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At this point I'm debating those in here who think its the same thing to compare African American culture to Hispanic Culture when they are two completely different things.

Debate that all you want. It's not something I'm saying, so your debate has little to do with me. I was just telling you what I think Biden was trying to say. I also said it was wrong and, in a previous post, deeply ignorant.
 
Debate that all you want. It's not something I'm saying, so your debate has little to do with me. I was just telling you what I think Biden was trying to say. I also said it was wrong and, in a previous post, deeply ignorant.

Agree or disagree with what Biden said, i find it pretty funny that bailey is now debating that African American culture and Hispanic culture are different. That's pretty much similar to what Biden said and his opinion was that the hispanics had a more diverse background. I didn't take it as a negative towards blacks as I think black people have a more diverse background than white people. Am I being racist against white people?
 
I think that the opinion in this tweet is wrong, but not completely wrong. I don't think this shows how Democrats really feel about black people, but I think it shows how older white male politicians often think about racial minorities, LGBTQ+ people and women. Biden is very much a product of the era he grew up in, which means he does have some problematic attitudes, blind spots and lack of familiarity in how to think and talk about these issues. That's why he also earlier this year bragged about having been able to "reach across the aisle" to work with segregationists, as if that were a good thing. Bernie Sanders had some of those same problems in 2016--he's still not the best when it comes to those issues, but he did seem to make a concerted effort to fix his thinking since then.

What this shows, as far as I'm concerned, is how important it is for the Democrats to make sure their party is as diverse as possible in terms of the leadership. As long as it's dominated by older (and even younger) white men, there's always going to be this disconnect, where even if the party "cares" about issues regarding identity, it makes crucial missteps and ignorant comments.

Biden wasn't intending to be racist or bigoted, in my opinion, but he ended up saying something profoundly ignorant anyway. The more that younger politicians who are non-white, non-male, non-straight cycle into the party, the better equipped the Democratic party will be in talking about and addressing more marginalized communities.
I get what you’re saying, but at the same time... If Trump said the same stuff that Biden has said over the last like 6 months alone. I dont think many people on the left would be building that same argument. If Trump had played a major role in the crime bill, and taken the same stances on busing and segregation.
Like, at some point, he just is a racist, his history kinda says that... He continues to do say things that are at the very best racially insensitive.
You say he’s ignorant, but many people make the argument that racism is rooted in ignorance...

I understand why people want Trump out of office so bad, and that they’ll settle for Biden. I understand that but seriously I think even just some ‘blank republican’ if he said the same things, and had the same political record on race, I dont think there would be any hesitation just calling them a racist.

Not necessarily by you specifically, I do believe you personally try to be consistant.
 
I have never heard anyone refer to a Jamaican as African. I have only heard of them called Jamaicans. I think you are really stretching it.

Look it up.
 
My God......

You didn't read the thread.

You cant consider Cubans and Mexicans, Hispanic heritage and not say Zimbabwe and Africa and Somalia and Nigeria are not Black heritage.

Asian Culture is vast too and is compromise of Koreans and Chinese and Japanese....

Not sure how you can equate the other races to be a culture but not allow Blacks to have the same and have to distinguish between Africans and Somalians.....

It's apples to oranges.

Joe Biden was wrong in Saying Africans. He should have Said the Black Culture. Not the African Culture. If you don't get that then that's on you.


I'm done discussing this. You are wrong and i'm right on this. Deal with it.

Sorry.
Why do you speak about things with such authority when you know zero about it? It's obvious that I trudged through it.
 
I get what you’re saying, but at the same time... If Trump said the same stuff that Biden has said over the last like 6 months alone. I dont think many people on the left would be building that same argument. If Trump had played a major role in the crime bill, and taken the same stances on busing and segregation.
Like, at some point, he just is a racist, his history kinda says that... He continues to do say things that are at the very best racially insensitive.
You say he’s ignorant, but many people make the argument that racism is rooted in ignorance...

I understand why people want Trump out of office so bad, and that they’ll settle for Biden. I understand that but seriously I think even just some ‘blank republican’ if he said the same things, and had the same political record on race, I dont think there would be any hesitation just calling them a racist.

Not necessarily by you specifically, I do believe you personally try to be consistant.

Racism is rooted in ignorance, and I think you can make the argument that Biden is racist, but if I were to make that argument, I'd say he's passively racist--that is, he doesn't intend to be racist, he doesn't bear any ill will towards people on other "races" and ethnicities, but he has a weak understanding of the experiences and needs of minority communities. I don't think the crime bill he championed was intended to target minorities, he just didn't understand the concept of disproportionate impact. And yes, he did support actually racist policies when he was younger.

The difference is that I feel Trump is actively racist today, whereas I don't think Biden is. I tend to call what Biden is "problematic," which is something I've talked about in relation to certain posters' attitudes on this forum--not actively racist, but lacking the requisite awareness. There's a huge difference between being actively racist, which I'd view as malicious, and passively racist or problematic, which I'd view as ignorance or lack of awareness. Biden is the second one, IMO, while Trump is the first one. Biden today I wouldn't trust to write legislation intended to address racial injustice, but I'd expect him to want to address racial injustice and if he has the right people around him, to have a chance to improve things. Trump I'd expect to either not care or actively make things worse for minorities.
 
I have never heard anyone refer to a Jamaican as African. I have only heard of them called Jamaicans. I think you are really stretching it.
From Wikipedia:
Ethnic origins

Jamaica's population, 1961–2003

Montego Bay, Jamaica'a second-largest city
Ethnic group % Population
Black or Black Mixed
92.1% 2,661,965
Mixed non-Black 6.1% 176,308
Asian 0.8% 23,122
Other0.4% 11,561
Unspecified 0.7% 20,232
Jamaica's diverse ethnic roots is reflected in the national motto 'Out of Many One People'. Most of the population of 2,812,000 (July 2018 est.) are of African or partially African descent, with many being able to trace their origins to the West African countries of Ghana and Nigeria
 
Debate that all you want. It's not something I'm saying, so your debate has little to do with me. I was just telling you what I think Biden was trying to say. I also said it was wrong and, in a previous post, deeply ignorant.

i get what he was trying to say. But yeah he did not say it right.
 
Racism is rooted in ignorance, and I think you can make the argument that Biden is racist, but if I were to make that argument, I'd say he's passively racist--that is, he doesn't intend to be racist, he doesn't bear any ill will towards people on other "races" and ethnicities, but he has a weak understanding of the experiences and needs of minority communities. I don't think the crime bill he championed was intended to target minorities, he just didn't understand the concept of disproportionate impact. And yes, he did support actually racist policies when he was younger.

The difference is that I feel Trump is actively racist today, whereas I don't think Biden is. I tend to call what Biden is "problematic," which is something I've talked about in relation to certain posters' attitudes on this forum--not actively racist, but lacking the requisite awareness. There's a huge difference between being actively racist, which I'd view as malicious, and passively racist or problematic, which I'd view as ignorance or lack of awareness. Biden is the second one, IMO, while Trump is the first one. Biden today I wouldn't trust to write legislation intended to address racial injustice, but I'd expect him to want to address racial injustice and if he has the right people around him, to have a chance to improve things. Trump I'd expect to either not care or actively make things worse for minorities.

woudl you consider a passive racist to be an active racist if he is informed of his ignorance but refuses to listen or take heed to the enlightenment other's are trying to instill into the passive racist?
 
woudl you consider a passive racist to be an active racist if he is informed of his ignorance but refuses to listen or take heed to the enlightenment other's are trying to instill into the passive racist?

in other words, once informed of passive racist behavior, if it continues, becomes active racist behavior.

and those who deny they are a passive racist?
 
That's true since most Jamaicans have an abundance of African DNA due to the slavery that built that country.

I know the origins of many of the Jamaicans as well as other hispanic countries have roots to Africa, but I have never in my 66 years heard a Jamaican referred to as an African, Many white Americans have roots in Europe but we aren't referred to as Europeans or European Americans. Jamaica has it's own culture and traditions.

To be honest, this discussion has wandered so far off due to a poster dragging it out of the subject that we are now discussing Jamaicans.
 
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in other words, once informed of passive racist behavior, if it continues, becomes active racist behavior.

and those who deny they are a passive racist?

I can't make a blanket statement about that. Sometimes it's not entirely clear and reasonable minds can disagree. I don't think disagreeing over racism automatically makes someone a racist, it's a case-by-case basis to me. I do think that people who don't have the lived experience should be careful and be open-minded when discussing these issues with people who do have that experience, even if they don't agree at the outset.
 
Trump's postmaster general made it clear he intends to use his position to sabotage the election. He just decreed states must use first class mail for ballots rather than bulk mail as in previous elections. First class mail costs about three times bulk mail at a time when state budgets have taken a huge hit due to loss if revenue resulting from Trump virus recession.
 

I feel pretty honored that you want my perspective on things like this. My thoughts are black people have been telling these stories for centuries and white people simply won't listen. Frankly, they need to gain their epiphanies on their own. I cannot be the catalyst. I don't enjoy having these conversations with white people and I feel that it is not my job to give my black perspective in this instance. White people simply need to understand the privilege that it is to be white in this country. I cannot help white people do this. IMHO that is specifically a white job. It's really funny watching white people have these conversations. It clearly shows that lots of y'all are ignorant and don't get it. It also shows that I'm so glad to have @Orion Bailey as a friend He seems to get it when a lot of y'all don't.

It's 20 FUCKING 20 and some of y'all don't seem to get that America is a lying ass BITCH who never wants to tell her own truth. Because if she did then you would know about ALL of my people's contributions to this country. How black people LITERALLY brought white people out of literal darkness. Y'all would also know how intertwined Hispanic culture and black culture is.

Reading this thread illustrates to me how woefully ignorant lots of you are. The information is there and you have it at the palm of your hand. But instead of looking into these issues you'd rather sit here and debate things that you know absolutely nothing about. Get informed about a subject before you debate it because you will sound stupid the entire debate if you don't... Some of y'all in here sound pretty stupid... Thank you for asking for my engagement but I must respectfully decline Jason...
 
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I feel pretty honored that you want my perspective on things like this. My thoughts are black people have been telling these stories for centuries and white people simply won't listen. Frankly, they need to gain their epiphanies on their own. I cannot be the catalyst. I don't enjoy having these conversations with white people and I feel that it is not my job to give my black perspective in this instance. White people simply need to understand the privilege that it is to be white in this country. I cannot help white people do this. IMHO that is specifically a white job. It's really funny watching white people have these conversations. It clearly shows that lots of y'all are ignorant and don't get it. It also shows that I'm so glad to have @Orion Bailey as a friend He seems to get it when a lot of y'all don't.

It's 20 FUCKING 20 and some of y'all don't seem to get that America is a lying ass BITCH who never wants to tell her own truth. Because if she did then you would know about ALL of my people's contributions to this country. How black people LITERALLY brought white people out of literal darkness. Y'all would also know how intertwined Hispanic culture and black culture is.

Reading this thread illustrates to me how woefully ignorant lots of you are. The information is there and you have it at the palm of your hand. But instead of looking into these issues you'd rather sit here and debate things that you know absolutely nothing about. Get informed about a subject before you debate it because you will sound stupid the entire debate if you don't... Some of y'all in here sound pretty stupid... Thank you for asking for my engagement but I must respectfully decline Jason...

I get it. Appreciate the response. I can only imagine how it must feel to see people actively dismiss the push for equality based on our history, as not relevant. Meaning, too many people say "that was then and this is now" without any thought to cause or correlation to how today is directly affected by yesterday.

People don't forget. Unless you benefited from the past....Then they want to forget and say...
"But...That was then... and things have changed."

Some things have changed. Don't get complacent. More change is still needed.

In this specific back and forth I see a presidential candidate comparing African Culture to Hispanic Culture and I say you cant compare the two. Its like comparing Asians to the French. Or Europe to Puerto Ricans.

There are counties(some have multiple races) and then there are cultures. Most cultures include a few/to many, races and each race has a different twist on their culture.

So if we are going to compare African Culture to something, it should be compared to Cuban Culture, or Chinese Culture. Not Hispanic Culture, which represents many countries and races. The correct equation would be Black culture, which also includes many races and countries.

I tried pointing that out and the Biden knob bobbers got all on me about it. Even tried to directly misquote me to make it look like I made a comment that all Blacks are African Americans.

That's where I brought you into it, because the level of ignorance from my standpoint is mindboggling. I felt I needed some help. LOL.


I'M also going to say this right here right now because I think its important and I think you deserve this to be said and known.

I see you get alot of shit for being offensive or uncompromising, curt and abrasive with what you say on here.

I just want to make it clear to all here reading this.

D is clearly a liberal leaning towards a form of socialism. Without getting into the semantics of it, I'm a liberal conservative. Somewhat the opposite. And yet, D and I can have mad respect for each other and support each other in our beliefs and our cause.

If anyone has met D in person (I know many of you have) you will come to love the passion this man has, and the level of respect he gives those around him.

So when people bash him on here for being so strong in his beliefs, claiming reverse racism, etc, I ask you to ask of yourself one thing.

What are you passionate about?

If nothing, then this isnt for you because you wont understand. But if you have something you have in your life you are passionate about, or have a strong belief in, then I implore you to use that as a measuring stick prior to coming at D. Check your own level of passion and if its true, you will likely find yourself walking the same path as D does with regards to what h is passionate about, and thus gain a great amount of respect and understanding for where he is coming from.


I do not agree with every view D has just like he doesn't agree with all of mine, but its clear we both want good things for all humans and that right there is enough to come together to support each other.
 
I feel pretty honored that you want my perspective on things like this. My thoughts are black people have been telling these stories for centuries and white people simply won't listen. Frankly, they need to gain their epiphanies on their own. I cannot be the catalyst. I don't enjoy having these conversations with white people and I feel that it is not my job to give my black perspective in this instance. White people simply need to understand the privilege that it is to be white in this country. I cannot help white people do this. IMHO that is specifically a white job. It's really funny watching white people have these conversations. It clearly shows that lots of y'all are ignorant and don't get it. It also shows that I'm so glad to have @Orion Bailey as a friend He seems to get it when a lot of y'all don't.

It's 20 FUCKING 20 and some of y'all don't seem to get that America is a lying ass BITCH who never wants to tell her own truth. Because if she did then you would know about ALL of my people's contributions to this country. How black people LITERALLY brought white people out of literal darkness. Y'all would also know how intertwined Hispanic culture and black culture is.

Reading this thread illustrates to me how woefully ignorant lots of you are. The information is there and you have it at the palm of your hand. But instead of looking into these issues you'd rather sit here and debate things that you know absolutely nothing about. Get informed about a subject before you debate it because you will sound stupid the entire debate if you don't... Some of y'all in here sound pretty stupid... Thank you for asking for my engagement but I must respectfully decline Jason...

And you are right. White people need to hear it from our own. And even then some still just don't listen or care..... So frustrating as a white person to try to explain things to other white people to have them dismiss rational conclusions simply because they think we fixed everything with a couple of amendments to the constitution....

Words on paper don't fix shit if we don't fix things in our hearts and our minds.
 
Joe Biden just destroyed one of Trump's biggest attack lines

Joe Biden on Saturday utterly devastated one of President Donald Trump's most repeated attack lines against the former Vice President. And the irony is Fox News helped him do it.

On the day that Trump was at his ritzy, exclusive country club in Bedminster, New Jersey, that reportedly has a $350,000 admission fee, Biden did what so many typical Americans do for recreation: He rode a bike
The former vice president, who was wearing a mask, was accompanied on his bicycle ride by a few others on the streets of his home state of Delaware when they were approached by Fox News' Peter Doocy. The Fox reporter yelled at the bike-riding Biden: "Mr. Vice President have you picked a running mate yet?" to which Biden responded, "Yeah I have." Doocy then followed up, "You have? Who is it?" to which Biden jokingly replied, "You!"


That exchange not only aired on Fox News, it went viral on social media. And then almost on cue Saturday afternoon, around the same time Biden was on his bicycle, Trump tweeted out from the posh confines of his country club one of his go-to attack lines against the former VP, calling him "Sleepy Joe Biden."

The irony was delicious. There's Biden briskly riding a bicycle while Trump is at his private country club, where the only exercise he seems to get is getting in and out of his golf cart. Yet Trump is calling Biden "Sleepy." Sometimes comedy writes itself. But in this case Twitter helped as the hashtag "Trump Can't ride a Bike" got traction online, with one anti-Trumper juxtaposing video footage of Biden riding his bicycle with Trump struggling to walk down a ramp after delivering the commencement address in June at West Point.

It's certainly true that Trump has made Biden's stamina -- as well as the former vice president's mental capacity -- an issue in this campaign. Voters don't necessarily agree: a poll in early July found that 52% of voters believe Biden has both the mental and physical stamina to be president versus only 45% for Trump. But here's an idea that might convince even higher numbers. Instead of a fourth debate that Trump's team wants, why not hold a good old-fashioned bicycle race between the two?! Trump loves ratings and this would no doubt attract millions! I can't even imagine how many will tune in just to see if Trump can even balance on a bicycle, let alone ride one.


What is also striking about this "riding with Biden" image is that it stands out in glaring contrast to another Democratic presidential nominee's moment of recreation that backfired. That happened in August 2004 when Democrat John Kerry, who was taking on incumbent President George W. Bush, was photographed windsurfing off the coast of Nantucket. Reportedly the photo op was intended "to combat Kerry's image as a stiff-jawed ivy-leaguer." Not only did late night hosts at the time like David Letterman and Jay Leno mock Kerry for the image, conservative blogs slammed Kerry for his "elitist" hobby. It got worse as the Bush campaign used the image in a campaign ad accusing Kerry shifting positions with the "wind.

(Kerry was an avid cyclist too, but his custom-made bikes and exotic riding destinations didn't send the same message as Biden's "everyman" bike ride.)

An even worse image for a Democratic presidential nominee -- probably the worst ever photo op for a modern day presidential candidate -- occurred in September 1988 when Michael Dukakis, in an effort to bolster his credibility to be commander in chief, donned a military helmet and rode in a M1A1 Abrams Main Battle Tank. Even the campaign reporters covering Dukakis at the time couldn't contain their laughter upon seeing the unfortunate image that made the candidate appear desperate and goofy. His opponent, George H. W. Bush, later utilized this image of Dukakis in ads attacking the Democratic nominee as being weak on defense.

Compare those images to Biden on the bicycle. There's no indication that this was a contrived photo op. It appears to be simply be Biden being Biden. He went out for a bike ride and Fox News happened to capture it. It's the same as Trump just being Trump over the weekend where he palled around with his rich friends at his private country club and then abruptly ended a press conference after being caught lying by a reporter.

The contrast for voters this November could not be starker.


Biden is definitely on his death bed, though. The technology for making corpses or near-corpses appear lifelike is improving with every day of this campaign. Meanwhile, Trump is a healthy bag of suet so that's, uh, something.
 
Joe Biden just destroyed one of Trump's biggest attack lines

Joe Biden on Saturday utterly devastated one of President Donald Trump's most repeated attack lines against the former Vice President. And the irony is Fox News helped him do it.

On the day that Trump was at his ritzy, exclusive country club in Bedminster, New Jersey, that reportedly has a $350,000 admission fee, Biden did what so many typical Americans do for recreation: He rode a bike
The former vice president, who was wearing a mask, was accompanied on his bicycle ride by a few others on the streets of his home state of Delaware when they were approached by Fox News' Peter Doocy. The Fox reporter yelled at the bike-riding Biden: "Mr. Vice President have you picked a running mate yet?" to which Biden responded, "Yeah I have." Doocy then followed up, "You have? Who is it?" to which Biden jokingly replied, "You!"


That exchange not only aired on Fox News, it went viral on social media. And then almost on cue Saturday afternoon, around the same time Biden was on his bicycle, Trump tweeted out from the posh confines of his country club one of his go-to attack lines against the former VP, calling him "Sleepy Joe Biden."

The irony was delicious. There's Biden briskly riding a bicycle while Trump is at his private country club, where the only exercise he seems to get is getting in and out of his golf cart. Yet Trump is calling Biden "Sleepy." Sometimes comedy writes itself. But in this case Twitter helped as the hashtag "Trump Can't ride a Bike" got traction online, with one anti-Trumper juxtaposing video footage of Biden riding his bicycle with Trump struggling to walk down a ramp after delivering the commencement address in June at West Point.

It's certainly true that Trump has made Biden's stamina -- as well as the former vice president's mental capacity -- an issue in this campaign. Voters don't necessarily agree: a poll in early July found that 52% of voters believe Biden has both the mental and physical stamina to be president versus only 45% for Trump. But here's an idea that might convince even higher numbers. Instead of a fourth debate that Trump's team wants, why not hold a good old-fashioned bicycle race between the two?! Trump loves ratings and this would no doubt attract millions! I can't even imagine how many will tune in just to see if Trump can even balance on a bicycle, let alone ride one.


What is also striking about this "riding with Biden" image is that it stands out in glaring contrast to another Democratic presidential nominee's moment of recreation that backfired. That happened in August 2004 when Democrat John Kerry, who was taking on incumbent President George W. Bush, was photographed windsurfing off the coast of Nantucket. Reportedly the photo op was intended "to combat Kerry's image as a stiff-jawed ivy-leaguer." Not only did late night hosts at the time like David Letterman and Jay Leno mock Kerry for the image, conservative blogs slammed Kerry for his "elitist" hobby. It got worse as the Bush campaign used the image in a campaign ad accusing Kerry shifting positions with the "wind.

(Kerry was an avid cyclist too, but his custom-made bikes and exotic riding destinations didn't send the same message as Biden's "everyman" bike ride.)

An even worse image for a Democratic presidential nominee -- probably the worst ever photo op for a modern day presidential candidate -- occurred in September 1988 when Michael Dukakis, in an effort to bolster his credibility to be commander in chief, donned a military helmet and rode in a M1A1 Abrams Main Battle Tank. Even the campaign reporters covering Dukakis at the time couldn't contain their laughter upon seeing the unfortunate image that made the candidate appear desperate and goofy. His opponent, George H. W. Bush, later utilized this image of Dukakis in ads attacking the Democratic nominee as being weak on defense.

Compare those images to Biden on the bicycle. There's no indication that this was a contrived photo op. It appears to be simply be Biden being Biden. He went out for a bike ride and Fox News happened to capture it. It's the same as Trump just being Trump over the weekend where he palled around with his rich friends at his private country club and then abruptly ended a press conference after being caught lying by a reporter.

The contrast for voters this November could not be starker.


Biden is definitely on his death bed, though. The technology for making corpses or near-corpses appear lifelike is improving with every day of this campaign. Meanwhile, Trump is a healthy bag of suet so that's, uh, something.
I havent went down the ‘dementia’ mental illness stuff that much if at all with Biden, but honestly having worked with dementia patients in both early and mid stages, if that was the game I was playing a bike ride and an interview wouldnt deter me.
Most dementia patients before its in its later stages have 3-4 predictable good hours a day of being mentally more lucid then other times of the day.

That said I think in January Bidens mental health was evaluated as ok.
 
I havent went down the ‘dementia’ mental illness stuff that much if at all with Biden, but honestly having worked with dementia patients in both early and mid stages, if that was the game I was playing a bike ride and an interview wouldnt deter me.
Most dementia patients before its in its later stages have 3-4 predictable good hours a day of being mentally more lucid then other times of the day.

Sure and while the "dementia" people deserve to be mocked too, I was making fun of the people who claim he's near death and being propped up Weekend At Bernie's style. Both groups are eminently mockable!
 
I know the origins of many of the Jamaicans as well as other hispanic countries have roots to Africa, but I have never in my 66 years heard a Jamaican referred to as an African, Many white Americans have roots in Europe but we aren't referred to as Europeans or European Americans. Jamaica has it's own culture and traditions.

To be honest, this discussion has wandered so far off due to a poster dragging it out of the subject that we are now discussing Jamaicans.
I too cannot recall anyone from the Caribbean islands as African but I have heard them many times referred to as Black.
 

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