Ukraine conflict

[MarAzul]

Or equivalent to the USA confiscating the land of the Hawaiians, ending their government, and when enough white people can vote it a state it was annexed.

uh, Hawaii is only about 25% white. Some one else must of wanted this tort you suggest.

 

[Denny Crane]

This is a very good equivalence. It was about 55 years ago, that it joined the US. How far back to we consider American actions relevant to current decision making?

Forever. Back to the beginning of time.

 

[Natebishop3]

Or equivalent to the USA confiscating the land of the Hawaiians, ending their government, and when enough white people can vote it a state it was annexed.

Well obviously we should just keep our mouth shut, right?

The British can't talk either.

Or the French.

Or the Spanish.

Or the Germans.

Or the Italians.

Or the Greeks.

 

[Denny Crane]

uh, Hawaii is only about 25% white. Some one else must of wanted this tort you suggest.

What do you know? Only 25% of the people were allowed to vote.

 

[Denny Crane]

Well obviously we should just keep our mouth shut, right?

The British can't talk either.

Or the French.

Or the Spanish.

Or the Germans.

Or the Italians.

Or the Greeks.

It's none of our business.

Our whole history is about invading and taking land. Be it from the Indians or Mexicans or Eskimos.

 

[Eastoff]

http://ukrainianpolicy.com/turkey-warns-russia-it-will-blockade-bosphorus/
Turkey is getting involved and may blockade the straight into the Black Sea.

 

[Denny Crane]

Ron Paul is the man.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...e-russia-ron-paul-editorials-debates/6544163/

Ron Paul: Crimea secedes. So what?

Residents of Crimea voted over the weekend on whether they would remain an autonomous region of Ukraine or join the Russian Federation. In so doing, they joined a number of countries and regions — including recently Scotland, Catalonia and Venice — that are seeking to secede from what they view as unresponsive or oppressive governments.

These latter three are proceeding without much notice, while the overwhelming Crimea vote to secede from Ukraine has incensed U.S. and European Union officials, and has led NATO closer to conflict with Russia than since the height of the Cold War.

What's the big deal? Opponents of the Crimea vote like to point to the illegality of the referendum. But self-determination is a centerpiece of international law. Article I of the United Nations Charter points out clearly that the purpose of the U.N. is to "develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples."

Why does the U.S. care which flag will be hoisted on a small piece of land thousands of miles away?

Critics point to the Russian "occupation" of Crimea as evidence that no fair vote could have taken place. Where were these people when an election held in an Iraq occupied by U.S. troops was called a "triumph of democracy"?

Perhaps the U.S. officials who supported the unconstitutional overthrow of Ukraine's government should refocus their energies on learning our own Constitution, which does not allow the U.S. government to overthrow governments overseas or send a billion dollars to bail out Ukraine and its international creditors.

Though the Obama administration has applied some minimal sanctions on selected Russian and Crimean individuals, neither the U.S. nor the EU can afford significant sanctions against Russia. Global trade provides too much economic benefit to both sides.

Indeed, international markets rallied on news that the sanctions would be thus far minimal. They understand that trade and economic engagement are the surest roads to peace and prosperity. Let's hope governments will follow their lead.

Former representative Ron Paul of Texas is host of the new RonPaulChannel.com.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

http://ukrainianpolicy.com/turkey-warns-russia-it-will-blockade-bosphorus/
Turkey is getting involved and may blockade the straight into the Black Sea.

graet..nothing more enjoyable than a bunch of crazy fuckers with nukes...

 

[Eastoff]

Oh and Japan will impose sanctions too
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/18/us-ukraine-crisis-japan-idUSBREA2H02T20140318

 

[Eastoff]

graet..nothing more enjoyable than a bunch of crazy fuckers with nukes...

What are you saying about Americans?! ;]

 

[Natebishop3]

It's none of our business.

Our whole history is about invading and taking land. Be it from the Indians or Mexicans or Eskimos.

You're absolutely right Denny. It's none of our business.... because Ukraine has nothing to offer us. Do they have large oil reserves? No? Yeah, fuck em.

 

[jlprk]

Oh and Japan will impose sanctions too
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/18/us-ukraine-crisis-japan-idUSBREA2H02T20140318

Japan will toughen visa requirements for its Russian visitors! Now they're talking. Russia will certainly give up its southern navy and its numerous military bases in Crimea in order to cushion its tourists in Japan.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

Japan will toughen visa requirements for its Russian visitors! Now they're talking. Russia will certainly give up its southern navy and its numerous military bases in Crimea in order to cushion its tourists in Japan.

Maybe Japan will annex the Kuril Islands?

 

[jlprk]

The U.S. is grabbing American assets held by the top 11 decision-makers who stole Crimea from the West.

Alright! Of course, they don't own any American assets, but U.S. warmongers like to look tough.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/03/russian-deputy-pm-laughs-at-obamas-sanctions/

 

[Denny Crane]

You're absolutely right Denny. It's none of our business.... because Ukraine has nothing to offer us. Do they have large oil reserves? No? Yeah, fuck em.

So they have oil. We should invade and take over?

Or what are you suggesting...

It's none of our business. They didn't start a war with us when we confiscated Texas and all the oil it had, or California and all the gold it had.

 

[riverman]

Nixon sent me to Viet Nam to prop up their democracy, now that worked out really well in the end.

 

[Natebishop3]

So they have oil. We should invade and take over?

Or what are you suggesting...

It's none of our business. They didn't start a war with us when we confiscated Texas and all the oil it had, or California and all the gold it had.

So are you seriously suggesting that we should not do anything because of things that happened over a hundred years ago? Really?

Just let the big bad nation beat up on the little guy.

 

[Denny Crane]

So are you seriously suggesting that we should not do anything because of things that happened over a hundred years ago? Really?

Just let the big bad nation beat up on the little guy.

Haiti. We installed the guy of our choice in the Clinton years. It was in our hemisphere. Probably not our business either, but that seems to be what superpowers do.

 

[riverman]

So are you seriously suggesting that we should not do anything because of things that happened over a hundred years ago? Really?

Just let the big bad nation beat up on the little guy.

History tends to repeat itself. I think the US has a get out of this conflict free pass coming. Ukraine is not such a little guy and Russia is no longer the USSR you know..if we don't send troops, we can sell weapons, that's the real lobby in Washington after all (yes I'm being sarcastic here). We aren't clamouring to protect small African nations from big bad guys eh? North Korea shot off 18 short range missles yesterday, do we need to invade them? At some point we need to fix the infrastructure here and stop policing the planet non stop.

 

[RR7]

I'll be honest, I'm tired of playing world policeman, getting yelled at and hated on for playing world policeman, and then getting yelled at because we're NOT playing world policeman.

 

[maxiep]

http://ukrainianpolicy.com/turkey-warns-russia-it-will-blockade-bosphorus/
Turkey is getting involved and may blockade the straight into the Black Sea.

This is fucking serious. Turkey is a member of NATO. Russia and Turkey enter hostilities, and we are treaty-bound to send military assets to our ally in support.

 

[maxiep]

The best way to keep Russia out of Ukraine is to crush Russian economic growth. Get rid of the stupid law against exporting our oil and start fracking like crazy with the intent of supplying Western Europe. Also, work with the Saudis to have them increase their output.

Unless you stop an agressor when they have vulnerabilities, you get history repeating itself.

 

[riverman]

The best way to keep Russia out of Ukraine is to crush Russian economic growth. Get rid of the stupid law against exporting our oil and start fracking like crazy with the intent of supplying Western Europe. Also, work with the Saudis to have them increase their output.

Unless you stop an agressor when they have vulnerabilities, you get history repeating itself.

So the question debated here is who the "you" should be? Maybe the Ukranians? Their allies or neighbors? The Turks? The Chinese? Why does it always have to be the United States?

 

[Eastoff]

The best way to keep Russia out of Ukraine is to crush Russian economic growth. Get rid of the stupid law against exporting our oil and start fracking like crazy with the intent of supplying Western Europe. Also, work with the Saudis to have them increase their output.

Unless you stop an agressor when they have vulnerabilities, you get history repeating itself.

I really dislike ruining our environment for gathering fossil fuels, but I agree with your premise. The best way to cripple Russia is through their economy. It will hurt Americans that are not in the Fossil Fuel industry all across the board though. But that is better than lives lost.

 

[Eastoff]

So the question debated here is who the "you" should be? Maybe the Ukranians? Their allies or neighbors? The Turks? The Chinese? Why does it always have to be the United States?

As long as the US wants to have the most important voice in the world, we have to take responsibility for these things. If you are content with a Canada or a Sweden kind of role, we can stop being the world police.

 

[maxiep]

So the question debated here is who the "you" should be? Maybe the Ukranians? Their allies or neighbors? The Turks? The Chinese? Why does it always have to be the United States?

Because we're the only nation on earth both strong enough to stop this kind of agression while also being moral enough to want nothing in return except for the freedom of the Ukrainian people.

It's the price one pays for being rich and free. Without the United States, the world is run by despots.

 

[Eastoff]

Because we're the only nation on earth both strong enough to stop this kind of agression while also being moral enough to want nothing in return except for the freedom of the Ukrainian people.

It's the price one pays for being rich and free. Without the United States, the world is run by despots.

I have very mixed emotions about embracing Nationalism and a seeming re-emergence of the cold war, having been but a child when the USSR collapsed. I can almost understand how "Red Dawn" was taken seriously.

 

[Denny Crane]

Because we're the only nation on earth both strong enough to stop this kind of agression while also being moral enough to want nothing in return except for the freedom of the Ukrainian people.

It's the price one pays for being rich and free. Without the United States, the world is run by despots.

Much of the rest of the world does not see our morals as Right.

So we end up forcing what we think is Right on them and they resent it. Thus we should really let them determine their own fates, and that involves letting countries vote to join the Russian Federation (or whatever it's called these days).

 

[Cryptkeeper]

Much of the rest of the world does not see our morals as Right.

So we end up forcing what we think is Right on them and they resent it. Thus we should really let them determine their own fates, and that involves letting countries vote to join the Russian Federation (or whatever it's called these days).

The "vote" was proven heavily tampered with. I agree that we should stop forcing what we think is right, but we should help stop what we know is wrong.

 

[Denny Crane]

The "vote" was proven heavily tampered with. I agree that we should stop forcing what we think is right, but we should help stop what we know is wrong.

I posted already that our response should have been to have the UN go in and monitor the vote. How could Putin refuse? It would have been a Putin-like move, in fact. A real coup for our side.