Politics Ukraine / Russia (3 Viewers)

[yankeesince59]

How do you folks think this conflict will end then? Ukraine will prevail and Russia will retreat from the Donbas reation with its tail between its legs?

Wait, first you tell us how it will end...but now you're asking us how it will end?

...classic.

 

[beast blazer]

Wait, first you tell us how it will end...but now you're asking us how it will end?

...classic.

Erm...ok. Seeing as how many of you clearly have a totally different view of how the war is going, I wanted to ask how you thought it would end.

 

[yankeesince59]

Erm...ok. Seeing as how many of you clearly have a totally different view of how the war is going, I wanted to ask how you thought it would end.

Try rereading the thread comments from square one...if you still don't get it, rinse, and repeat....you are welcome.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

How do you folks think this conflict will end then? Ukraine will prevail and Russia will retreat from the Donbas reation with its tail between its legs?

Putin will either die because of failing health or be overthrown. Whoever is the next leader will retreat from Ukraine in exchange for the West easing some sanctions. That will instantly improve the Russian economy and help solidify the new leader's power base.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

 

[jonnyboy]

How do you folks think this conflict will end then? Ukraine will prevail and Russia will retreat from the Donbas reation with its tail between its legs?

When the military industrial complex, its favored contractors and associated politicians have extracted the last of the profit they can, the effort will be scrapped. Ukraine will be left in shambles, but US backed war profiteers will step in to help rebuild at a premium cost payed for with your money. Most of the supplies and munitions we’ve sent there will go largely unaccounted for and spread across the region, ultimately to be used against us in the near future in whatever campaign we happen to instigate at that time. Endless war for money, a media to push it, and plenty of clueless people to support it…again.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

When the military industrial complex, its favored contractors and associated politicians have extracted the last of the profit they can, the effort will be scrapped. Ukraine will be left in shambles, but US backed war profiteers will step in to help rebuild at a premium cost payed for with your money. Most of the supplies and munitions we’ve sent there will go largely unaccounted for and spread across the region, ultimately to be used against us in the near future in whatever campaign we happen to instigate at that time. Endless war for money, a media to push it, and plenty of clueless people to support it…again.

What should the United States have done?

 

[jonnyboy]

Stayed out of it and let Ukraine and Russia sign the agreement Zelenskyy ran his entire campaign on.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Stayed out of it and let Ukraine and Russia sign the agreement Zelenskyy ran his entire campaign on.

What agreement was that?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

What agreement was that?

The agreement that was on Hunter Biden's laptop.

 

[Phatguysrule]

The agreement that was on Hunter Biden's laptop.

Makes perfect sense.

 

[yankeesince59]

When the military industrial complex, its favored contractors and associated politicians have extracted the last of the profit they can, the effort will be scrapped. Ukraine will be left in shambles, but US backed war profiteers will step in to help rebuild at a premium cost payed for with your money. Most of the supplies and munitions we’ve sent there will go largely unaccounted for and spread across the region, ultimately to be used against us in the near future in whatever campaign we happen to instigate at that time. Endless war for money, a media to push it, and plenty of clueless people to support it…again.

If it was about "war for money", why didn't the US and other countries send arms/equipment/jets/tanks/etc., sooner than they did, and why didn't they happily send even more than they did?

Did it cost the US and other countries to aid Ukraine? Of course, but the cost for doing so is a byproduct of supporting Ukraine, not the initial and sole reason for supporting Ukraine.

 

[beast blazer]

When the military industrial complex, its favored contractors and associated politicians have extracted the last of the profit they can, the effort will be scrapped. Ukraine will be left in shambles, but US backed war profiteers will step in to help rebuild at a premium cost payed for with your money. Most of the supplies and munitions we’ve sent there will go largely unaccounted for and spread across the region, ultimately to be used against us in the near future in whatever campaign we happen to instigate at that time. Endless war for money, a media to push it, and plenty of clueless people to support it…again.

I'm not certain what the goal is in Ukraine, but I am certain that it's not a humanitarian concern. There are plenty of places we ignore. It has something more to do with the battle of the Anglo American empire to keep world supremacy by boxing in China and Russia.

Our intervention has made things 100x worse for Ukraine. And the US continues to push and push, and may end up pushing things to a nuclear war. And the dimwits will be cheering it on.....the stupidity of this word is tragic.

 

[yankeesince59]

I'm not certain what the goal is in Ukraine, but I am certain that it's not a humanitarian concern. There are plenty of places we ignore. It has something more to do with the battle of the Anglo American empire to keep world supremacy by boxing in China and Russia.

Our intervention has made things 100x worse for Ukraine. And the US continues to push and push, and may end up pushing things to a nuclear war. And the dimwits will be cheering it on.....the stupidity of this word is tragic.

What place have we ignored that has been invaded by a country as strong and as ruthless as Russia? Russia's invasion is nothing more than a land grab and that's it, and they grossly miscalculated by thinking they could just waltz into Ukraine with very little resistance and simply take over ...But Ukraine, the US and other countries are proving them wrong. Russia is not only losing this war, they are becoming weaker by the day. In this case, as happens sometimes, the bully got a black eye...and rightfully so.

Russia has become a pariah and will be viewed as such for many years to come. And I don't know how you can justify your position that we and much of the free world has made things so much worse for Ukraine by uniting and coming to Ukraine's aid. What we are doing is righteous, and proper.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts

The US military budget was $877 billion in 2022.

So for approximately 5% of our annual military budget, we have shown how weak and corrupt a Putin-led Russia has become while helping fight an illegal invasion of a country that borders many of our allies.

 

[jonnyboy]

What agreement was that?

The Minsk accords in 2019 and the Minsk accords II in 2022.

 

[yankeesince59]

Ukraine did not violate the agreements by invading Russia.

 

[jonnyboy]

Ukraine did not violate the agreements by invading Russia.

The agreements were never honored in the first place. That’s why this conflict persists. In 2022 Russia had begun to move troops out of eastern Ukraine (you know, that area where the Ukraine government was bombing its own people) because a deal was on the brink of being made. Victoria Nuland and Boris Johnson stepped in to impede and now hundreds of thousands are dead. Your claim of US involvement being “righteous and proper” is simply insane.

 

[Phatguysrule]

The agreements were never honored in the first place. That’s why this conflict persists. In 2022 Russia had begun to move troops out of eastern Ukraine (you know, that area where the Ukraine government was bombing its own people) because a deal was on the brink of being made. Victoria Nuland and Boris Johnson stepped in to impede and now hundreds of thousands are dead. Your claim of US involvement being “righteous and proper” is simply insane.

What part of the accords did Ukraine violate? From what I can tell, they are all about withdrawing foreign military and influence from Ukraine.

Basically, Russia needed to knock of the shit and Ukraine needed to not invade Russia...

 

[jonnyboy]

What place have we ignored that has been invaded by a country as strong and as ruthless as Russia?

Yemen. Being decimated by the Saudis who are also powerful and ruthless.

Russia's invasion is nothing more than a land grab and that's it,

No, it’s a response to NATO encroachment that was promised multiple times not to happen. That doesn’t justify the aggression, but “Bad guy does evil stuff just cuz evil” is a lazy explanation for this and ignores the blatant facts.

Russia is not only losing this war, they are becoming weaker by the day.

Just a fairytale spun by whatever mainstream outlet you watch or read. Three times as many dead Ukrainians as Russians, upwards of 150k to Russias 50k. Not sure if you’re a numbers guy, but Ukraine will run out of troops long before Russia does. They are already sending unqualified and barely trained men to die because they are out of options. Ukraine cannot beat Russia in a war. Never in 1000 years. It’s completely unhinged for people to keep cheerleading this nonsense. This isn’t a basketball game. End it.

Russia has become a pariah and will be viewed as such for many years to come.

The rest of the world doesn’t share your high opinion of American foreign policy. We’re basically hated universally for doing much worse shit than what’s happening in Ukraine or Russia, or anywhere else for that matter. We reign death and destruction upon every land we touch and we are absolutely despised for it world wide.

 

[jonnyboy]

What part of the accords did Ukraine violate? From what I can tell, they are all about withdrawing foreign military and influence from Ukraine.

Basically, Russia needed to knock of the shit and Ukraine needed to not invade Russia...

The accords were never ratified, not the most recent ones. They only got close before talks were stalled by outside influencers.

 

[Phatguysrule]

The accords were never ratified, not the most recent ones. They only got close before talks were stalled by outside influencers.

Okay, but I don't see how Ukraine was doing anything that would violate the accords before they were invaded.

Once Russia invaded Ukraine had no choice but to fight back. And of course, at that point they were going to take back ALL of their territory.

Russia doesn't have enough soldiers to hold Ukraine. Not by a long shot.

I understand why Russia invaded. They had no choice but to make a move unless they wanted to slowly wither away to nothing. They are getting old enough that this is the last chance they have.

They are going to fail, but it was this or go quietly into the night as far as they were concerned. And the Russian people love a strong man leader.

 

[yankeesince59]

The agreements were never honored in the first place. That’s why this conflict persists. In 2022 Russia had begun to move troops out of eastern Ukraine (you know, that area where the Ukraine government was bombing its own people) because a deal was on the brink of being made. Victoria Nuland and Boris Johnson stepped in to impede and now hundreds of thousands are dead. Your claim of US involvement being “righteous and proper” is simply insane.

...so you're citing an "agreement" that was never really observed or agreed to by either side?...wow, what a compelling agreement.

 

[yankeesince59]

Yemen. Being decimated by the Saudis who are also powerful and ruthless.

You're claiming that the Saudi's are as powerful as Russia?...really? The Saudi's are not even ranked in the top 20 militaries in the world.

No, it’s a response to NATO encroachment that was promised multiple times not to happen. That doesn’t justify the aggression, but “Bad guy does evil stuff just cuz evil” is a lazy explanation for this and ignores the blatant facts.

No, again, it's a "land grab". In 1954 Nikita Khrushchev gave Crimea as a "gift" to the republic of Ukraine ...Putin decided that he wanted Crimea back, and more.

Just a fairytale spun by whatever mainstream outlet you watch or read. Three times as many dead Ukrainians as Russians, upwards of 150k to Russias 50k. Not sure if you’re a numbers guy, but Ukraine will run out of troops long before Russia does. They are already sending unqualified and barely trained men to die because they are out of options. Ukraine cannot beat Russia in a war. Never in 1000 years. It’s completely unhinged for people to keep cheerleading this nonsense. This isn’t a basketball game. End it.

Wut?...Russia has been using convicts as troops for months now and 500,000 to 700,000 Russian men have fled Russia to avoid conscription.

So mainstream media is lying, but your news sources/outlets are tell ing the truth?...really?...btw, what are your news sources?

The rest of the world doesn’t share your high opinion of American foreign policy. We’re basically hated universally for doing much worse shit than what’s happening in Ukraine or Russia, or anywhere else for that matter. We reign death and destruction upon every land we touch and we are absolutely despised for it world wide.

"The rest of the world....? Ummm, generalize much?




All in all, you seem to be the one who is misinformed and in denial, "comrade".

 

[jonnyboy]

...so you're citing an "agreement" that was never really observed or agreed to by either side?...wow, what a compelling agreement.

Um, how do you NOT cite this? The fact it’s probably never been mentioned in this thread or on the fake liberal pro war establishment media you consume tells you all you need to know. It was the answer to solve this conflict and it was stopped dead in its tracks by outside actors. Now hundreds of thousands are dead and you’re parroting vague, idealistic reasons for why this could have happened while ignoring the actual facts that have been layed out for you.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Um, how do you NOT cite this? The fact it’s probably never been mentioned in this thread or on the fake liberal pro war establishment media you consume tells you all you need to know. It was the answer to solve this conflict and it was stopped dead in its tracks by outside actors. Now hundreds of thousands are dead and you’re parroting vague, idealistic reasons for why this could have happened while ignoring the actual facts that have been layed out for you.

The facts are that Russia invaded their neighboring country.

The US has supported that country in it's time of need.

Russia was in the wrong to invade regardless of what any other country was doing. They had no right to invade Ukraine.

Supporting the country that is being invaded is absolutely the right move and what most Americans want.

 

[yankeesince59]

Um, how do you NOT cite this? The fact it’s probably never been mentioned in this thread or on the fake liberal pro war establishment media you consume tells you all you need to know. It was the answer to solve this conflict and it was stopped dead in its tracks by outside actors. Now hundreds of thousands are dead and you’re parroting vague, idealistic reasons for why this could have happened while ignoring the actual facts that have been layed out for you.

I don't cite it because because it was never consummated and was not actually tested. And if it were, why should anyone believe anything Russia agrees to? Putin's word is shit.

And "fake liberal war establishment"?...now you're just making stuff up.

I'm not "parroting" anything...you assume too much...and your "facts" are subjective and quite myopic.

 

[ehizzy3]

hundreds of thousands are dead because of Putin. Not because the US, Europe, Japan, Korea, or Canada are supporting Ukraine defending themselves.

The war starts and ends with Putin.

“fake liberal war establishment” sounds like some bullshit Russians are posting on Twitter and 4chan

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

The agreements were never honored in the first place. That’s why this conflict persists. In 2022 Russia had begun to move troops out of eastern Ukraine (you know, that area where the Ukraine government was bombing its own people) because a deal was on the brink of being made. Victoria Nuland and Boris Johnson stepped in to impede and now hundreds of thousands are dead. Your claim of US involvement being “righteous and proper” is simply insane.

There was never a deal on the brink of being made. Zelensky came into office ready to make a deal with russia and Putin didn't want to deal except entirely on his terms, which would basically have made Donbass a constant thorn in the side of governance in Ukraine. Can you provide a link where Johnson and Nuland blew up any kind of pending agreement?

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

. In 2022 Russia had begun to move troops out of eastern Ukraine (you know, that area where the Ukraine government was bombing its own people) because a deal was on the brink of being made.

Wait a minute, russia had troops in Ukraine, a sovereign nation? Do you realize they have always denied ever having troops in Ukraine during this time period? Why do you support liars?