Politics Ukraine / Russia (2 Viewers)

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Phatguysrule said:
I will support the Ukraine defense effort until Russia does exactly that.
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Hmm. Define support. Sitting on your couch agreeing with everything the military industrial complex says isn’t helping much no matter what side you’re on.
 
jonnyboy said:
They opted out of two peace treaties they said they were going to sign which would’ve avoided all this. Zelensky ran his campaign on signing Minsk I and II accords and then didn’t. He’s a puppet dictator for the west and NATO and the Ukrainian people are being used as human shields for a contractor’s war.
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This is really an ignorant post. Minsk agreements were signed at the point of a gun. At the time of the first agreement, russia had 20.000 troops in Donbass. They had already driven the meager Ukraine troops ( pro- russian president Yanukovych had stopped funding the army and let it deteriorate to almost nothing) out of most of Donbass and threatened to keep going to Kyiv. Minsk II was just another stalling tactic by Ukraine to prevent russia from full invasion. If implemented it would not only have given independence to these Ukrainian territories, but would have given them substantial representation in the Ukrainian government so they could sabotage from within. Ukraine agreed to this so they could continue to build up their military to prevent a russian invasion. At every step they did what was necessary for the nation to survive.
Since the Minsk accords were signed before Zelensky ran for office, obviously he couldn't run on a platform that he would sign them. He spoke only russian himself and came from a pro-russian part of the country and thought he could talk with Putin and come up with a compromise. Soon he realized that Putin was not interested in compromise and really wanted to destroy Ukraine economically. (Building of Kerch bridge was one example, built so that large Ukrainian ships could not take grain and ore from their main port due to low height of bridge).
Still, Donbass was already de facto independent; Ukraine never tried to invade it and in fact were under orders to only return shell fire from Putin's proxies, who were trained and directed by russian troops. So why wasn't Putin satisfied with the status quo? Why did he order his proxies to keep shelling Ukraine every night for years?
Zelensky obviously is not a "puppet dictator"; why would anyone parrot the russian take on this? There is no dispute that he was elected in a fair and honest election by an overwhelming majority. I also want to remind that USA was not providing any substantial weapons to Ukraine before the russian invasion, only a few sniper rifles and rocket propelled grenades.
While I am at it, I would like to include a little history. The only reason there were any "pro-russian" areas in Ukraine is because in the 30's Stalin starved to death millions of Ukrainians and then moved millions of russians onto their lands and into their homes. He also forcibly deported many Ukrainians and of course all the Tatars from Crimea.
So let's remind again who started this war. And let's remind again that the prominent russian military contractor Prigozhin has admitted that the invasion was not because there were nazis in Ukraine, not because russia was worried about NATO, but was a simple resource grab by russian elite. And as we see, once russia took over territories they stole Ukrainian grain and metal products and exported them. They have even removed entire factories and taken to russia.
 
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I notice the media has gone silent on the Ukraine/Russian conflict. Russia is in firm control of the Donbas region, the Ukrainian resistance has crumbled.

I remember months ago I told you all Ukraine was going to lose, and many scoffed at that, because you were brainwashed by the media.
 
This is probably the most significant and telling chart I could post that tells how the war is going. Although the huge casualty reports for russians the last few days in their failed counter-offensive would also tell a story. It's amazing for me that the Ukrainians were able to survive and even drive the russians back in the first year of the war while being overwhelmed with a 15 to one artillery shell disadvantage. BTW, Biden's decision to ship cluster shells to Ukraine was probably the most crucial of the war. And that shipment did not put one penny into USA contractors' pocket or cost one cent to USA taxpayers. They were just sitting in storage and would never have been used, due to political backlash.
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Ukraine, last night, attacked a russian air base in Ukrainian territory, disabling 9 helicopters, an ammo dump and some personnel. Ukraine has verified that it was an ATACM rocket provided by USA. It appears it was of a type with almost a thousand submunitions in it's warhead, which would be ideal for use at an airfield. Another variant of this ATACM could attack and probably destroy the Kerch Bridge, which connects Crimea to russia. We don't know if USA has authorized it's use for that purpose. Regardless, this is a real big deal that Ukraine has these rockets now.
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In other news, russia launched a large offensive up and down the front a few days ago. They have gained very little, (if any) territory and are taking very heavy losses in personnel and tanks and other armored vehicles. Another slaughterhouse really, like earlier in Bakhmut. Hopefully now their forces are exhausted and Ukraine can resume their offensive.
Here is some of the carnage.
 
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beast crnjo said:
I notice the media has gone silent on the Ukraine/Russian conflict. Russia is in firm control of the Donbas region, the Ukrainian resistance has crumbled.

I remember months ago I told you all Ukraine was going to lose, and many scoffed at that, because you were brainwashed by the media.
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The goal was to extract large amounts of money from the American taxpayer and transfer it to special interests. That goal was accomplished. As far as a war goes, Ukraine lost this one the day they decided to fight it. That’s just the unfortunate truth. Rational adults saw this plainly. Now it’s time to move the goal posts and redefine what words like “win” and “lose” mean to pacify the Americans who ignorantly supported sending about a half a million Ukrainians to die. Gotta convince people it was worth it so they can do it somewhere else in the very near future. Ukraine will be forgotten the quickest by the ones who cheered the loudest for the conflict to continue. It’s amazing people haven’t figured this wash/repeat scheme out yet. Just plug in different countries and characters and off we go.
 
jonnyboy said:
The goal was to extract large amounts of money from the American taxpayer and transfer it to special interests. That goal was accomplished. As far as a war goes, Ukraine lost this one the day they decided to fight it. That’s just the unfortunate truth. Rational adults saw this plainly. Now it’s time to move the goal posts and redefine what words like “win” and “lose” mean to pacify the Americans who ignorantly supported sending about a half a million Ukrainians to die. Gotta convince people it was worth it so they can do it somewhere else in the very near future. Ukraine will be forgotten the quickest by the ones who cheered the loudest for the conflict to continue. It’s amazing people haven’t figured this wash/repeat scheme out yet. Just plug in different countries and characters and off we go.
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Ukraine was invaded. They didn't have to be sent anywhere. And the day they decided to fight was the day their neighbor decided to attack their capital.

Victory is the same today as it has always been. Russia expelled from Ukrainian territory and Ukraine free to run their country how they choose.
 
All week, Russia has been making very large assaults against the Ukraine defenses. Russia has not gained any territory. But their casualties are extremely high, especially the last two days, both in troops killed and equipment lost. I am not going to post any numbers, but calling it a meatgrinder is an understatement.
 
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oldfisherman said:
All week, Russia has been making very large assaults against the Ukraine defenses. Russia has not gained any territory. But their casualties are extremely high, especially the last two days, both in troops killed and equipment lost. I am not going to post any numbers, but calling it a meatgrinder is an understatement.
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Ruck Fussia.
 
barfo said:
Yes, surrender is the best defense.

Motto of the jonnyboy army: Semper Deditionem

barfo
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Would’ve saved a few hundred thousand lives. But yeah, dick swinging on someone else’s dime is the right thing to do. The inches they’ve gained (not where you’re thinking) will surely be worth it.
 
jonnyboy said:
Would’ve saved a few hundred thousand lives. But yeah, dick swinging on someone else’s dime is the right thing to do. The inches they’ve gained (not where you’re thinking) will surely be worth it.
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Yes, war causes death. Surrender is not always the solution, however.

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barfo
 
Simon Shuster, author of Time's article which named Zelensky "Person of the Year" in 2022, had a come to Jesus moment after visiting Ukraine, and being told things by Zelensky's inner circle.

The truth runs very counter to the propaganda you've been fed about Ukraine winning. Ukraine is losing, their man power has been decimated (average age for a Ukrainian soldier is now 43 due to losses of the young)

Yet another disaster caused/enabled by the US military industrial complex, not entirely of course, but we had a major hand in this. One has to ask why there is never a shortage of political will for this sort of thing. We'll turn on the money printer and throw billions of dollars to help fuck up other countries while our own rots from within.

We don't even know where the money will end up, because the country is so corrupt.

 
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I hate it when things quitely leave the news cycle, and people don't acknowledge the lies that were told.

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beast crnjo said:
Simon Shuster, author of Time's article which named Zelensky "Person of the Year" in 2022, had a come to Jesus moment after visiting Ukraine, and being told things by Zelensky's inner circle.

The truth runs very counter to the propaganda you've been fed about Ukraine winning. Ukraine is losing, their man power has been decimated (average age for a Ukrainian soldier is now 43 due to losses of the young)

Yet another disaster caused/enabled by the US military industrial complex, not entirely of course, but we had a major hand in this. One has to ask why there is never a shortage of political will for this sort of thing. We'll turn on the money printer and throw billions of dollars to help fuck up other countries while our own rots from within.

We don't even know where the money will end up, because the country is so corrupt.

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This thread is supposed to be about the Ukraine, not about America..........
 
beast crnjo said:
(average age for a Ukrainian soldier is now 43 due to losses of the young)
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Let's say China invades the US, what do you think the average age would be of the people fighting them? Are you really going to stay home while your kids are fighting? FYI, the median age of men in the US is 42. The median age in Ukraine is 44.7. Invasion of a country is not a fight by the military only. Everyone who can fights back.
 
Ukraine inflicting terrible losses on russia in the last week: over 6000 troops in the last week and over 900 military equipment units. Also hit a shipyard close to the Kerch bridge which goes from Crimea to russia and damaged a brand new missile launcher ship. Also damaged the shipyards. Tonight hit a ammo dump and helicopter base in occupied Ukraine right next to Russian border.
HERE IS PHOTO OF DAMAGE TO THAT SHIP:
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UKRAINEFAN said:
Ukraine inflicting terrible losses on russia in the last week: over 6000 troops in the last week and over 900 military equipment units. Also hit a shipyard close to the Kerch bridge which goes from Crimea to russia and damag3ed a brand new missile launcher ship. Also damaged the shipyards. Tonight hit a ammo dump and helicopter base in occupied Ukraine right next to russain border.
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I don't think the situation is really in stalemate right now. I t would be if russia had just stayed on the defensive, which is a real advantage in a trench war, but they are making suicidal attacks and really depleting their human and mechanical resources. Hopefully they will soon be exhausted and Ukraine is talking about trying something more creative in their own next offensive.
 
SlyPokerDog said:


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This was done with either the British Storm Shadow missile or it's French version Scalp. Very close to Kerch Bridge so would have had to get through some of the toughest air defense systems in the world. Unfortunately Ukraine doesn't have enough of these long range rockets to have much of an effect. If they had enough to fire 10 every night, it would really change things.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Let's say China invades the US, what do you think the average age would be of the people fighting them? Are you really going to stay home while your kids are fighting? FYI, the median age of men in the US is 42. The median age in Ukraine is 44.7. Invasion of a country is not a fight by the military only. Everyone who can fights back.
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That's what happens when your regular fighting force gets so decimated that you resort to putting any man who can carry a gun into combat.
 
Aren't most of you guys Democrats? The anti-war party? You're sure buying the propaganda.
 
beast crnjo said:
That's what happens when your regular fighting force gets so decimated that you resort to putting any man who can carry a gun into combat.
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Isn't that similar to what Russia is doing? They're clearing out prisons and sending them to fight with little training AND equipment. You want to see corruption, look at what the Russian Generals and Oligarchs have done, they've stripped the Russian military and sold it off. Russia is using weapons, MREs, and first aid supplies from the Korean War. They're going to North Korea for help.

NATO and the US have been giving Ukraine weapon systems that are 2 or 3 generations old and they've had devastating effects on Russian ground troops. Ukraine has battled the world's 3rd most powerful army to a standstill. That's amazing. That would be similar to Canada and England holding off the US if we attacked.

This war has turned a two-front military into a stalemate with Ukraine. This effectively keeps them out of conflicts in Africa and the Middle East.

You keep bashing Ukraine and singing Russia's praises but I see this as a very huge failure for Russia. They did not see this turning out this way. By Ukraine preventing Russia from taking over has stopped all further expansion plans by Russia. Russia was looking at Poland next, Poland, a member of NATO that if Russia had attacked would have required troops on the ground from the US.

The US and NATO are preventing wars and weakening a hostile actor.

Sounds like a win to me.
 
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