Politics Ukraine / Russia (3 Viewers)

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crandc said:
Absolutely not should Ukraine hand over territory to Russia.
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SharpeScooterShooter said:
Honest question hoping for honest knowledgeable answers.
Why did Russia invade Ukraine? What was their reasoning/justification for it? Seems it’s skipped over for the most part when I read how bad Russia is for invading. But they had to have some sort of motivation/justification in their/Putins mind?

I don’t trust left or right answers. No hard left or hard right links please. Looking for an unbiased, middle ground, realistic answer. Doesn’t mean the answer will actually justify the invasion, but what was there reasoning for starting a war?
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1. I'll give you an answer from Prigozhin, russian leader of Wagner military group. Shortly beore he was assasinated he said it was a pure resource grab by russian elite (which includes Putin, possibly the richest man in the world). He said it definitely had nothing to do with fear of NATO. Actions by russian since they invaded bear this out as they have stolen huge amounts of grain, coal and metal products.
2. Putin's ego, wants to get more adoration like he got after taking Crimea. Dictators need wars to distract from poverty and the huge gulf between ultrarich and common person, Almost one quarter of russians do not have indoor plumbing.
If you want middle ground, then I don't think you will find the truth.
 
Avdiivka may fall due to artillery shells shortage, says war veteran
I'm sure you all know that Mike Johnson, most likely on instructions from Trump, continues to sabotage aid to Ukraine. First he insisted that aid to Ukraine be combined with a border bill. Biden and senate did that. Then he said the two must be seperated. Now he wants to seperate Ukraine adi from Israel aid, hoping that will make it easier to defeat Ukraine aid.
https://english.nv.ua/nation/ratio-...ity-is-1-12-in-favor-of-ukraine-50389796.html
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Avdiivka may fall due to artillery shells shortage, says war veteran
I'm sure you all know that Mike Johnson, most likely on instructions from Trump, continues to sabotage aid to Ukraine. First he insisted that aid to Ukraine be combined with a border bill. Biden and senate did that. Then he said the two must be seperated. Now he wants to seperate Ukraine adi from Israel aid, hoping that will make it easier to defeat Ukraine aid.
https://english.nv.ua/nation/ratio-...ity-is-1-12-in-favor-of-ukraine-50389796.html
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Ukrainians are dying because of these idiots. This has to be one of the most shameful chapters in American history.
 
Unfortunately they really don't support Ukraine. It's not just denying Biden a win. They are pro Putin.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Avdiivka may fall due to artillery shells shortage, says war veteran
I'm sure you all know that Mike Johnson, most likely on instructions from Trump, continues to sabotage aid to Ukraine. First he insisted that aid to Ukraine be combined with a border bill. Biden and senate did that. Then he said the two must be seperated. Now he wants to seperate Ukraine adi from Israel aid, hoping that will make it easier to defeat Ukraine aid.
https://english.nv.ua/nation/ratio-...ity-is-1-12-in-favor-of-ukraine-50389796.html
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The situation is now considered critical. russians have gained lodgements both to the north and south of the city. In the south they are holed up in houses. If Ukraine had enough artillery shells, they could obliterate those houses. This city has been under fire for 10 years now and yet Ukrainians held on. What a shame it would be if it fell now because the West can't get any damned ammo to Ukraine.
 
It is a reflection of how many media in this country have fallen down on the job, either abandoning news for celebrity culture or determined to both sider everything, that we don't see banner headlines every day in every major newspaper and top story on every broadcast that Republican party had rather Ukraine die than allow anything that might help Biden. That their cult loyalty to incompetent narcissistic senile Trump and holding onto power is worth drowning Ukraine after all the Ukrainian people's sacrifices.
 
Weaker of the house refuses to let border bill, which gives Republicans almost everything they want, come to the floor for a vote because it would pass. A bad border helps Trump. And no aid to Ukraine without border bill.

If Ukraine or portions fall to Russia, Republicans will break their legs running to news programs to blame Biden.
 
There are enough votes in the House to pass Ukraine aid. But a bill can only come to the floor when the speaker brings it and the Weaker is afraid he will lose speakership because MAGA crazies oppose Ukraine aid. So a soldier on the front lines in Ukraine is running out of ammo because Marjorie Taylor Greene ranted on Fox about not wanting more money for Ukraine. Today's Republican party.
 
crandc said:
There are enough votes in the House to pass Ukraine aid. But a bill can only come to the floor when the speaker brings it and the Weaker is afraid he will lose speakership because MAGA crazies oppose Ukraine aid. So a soldier on the front lines in Ukraine is running out of ammo because Marjorie Taylor Greene ranted on Fox about not wanting more money for Ukraine. Today's Republican party.
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Robot.
 
Our leaders have even openly admitted several times that this war was about weakening Russia and disposing of Putin. Please stop and think about how insanely stupid that is. If we destroy the central power of Russia, when they have so many nuclear weapons.
 
beast crnjo said:
Our leaders have even openly admitted several times that this war was about weakening Russia and disposing of Putin. Please stop and think about how insanely stupid that is. If we destroy the central power of Russia, when they have so many nuclear weapons.
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beast crnjo said:
Our leaders have even openly admitted several times that this war was about weakening Russia and disposing of Putin. Please stop and think about how insanely stupid that is. If we destroy the central power of Russia, when they have so many nuclear weapons.
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You mean like back in the 90s after Russia broke themselves on Afghanistan? With similar help from the US. When nobody had to worry about Russia?

Those were terrible times...

I can see why you'd be terrified of a return to a world without a Russian aggressor in which authoritarians know the world won't stand for their empire building..
 
Phatguysrule said:
You mean like back in the 90s after Russia broke themselves on Afghanistan? With similar help from the US. When nobody had to worry about Russia?

Those were terrible times...

I can see why you'd be terrified of a return to a world without a Russian aggressor in which authoritarians know the world won't stand for their empire building..
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How many bombs do you think Russia has dropped on foreign nations vs the US since then? Russia already has massive amounts of land. They idea that they want to take over Europe is absolutely ridiculous. It's Europe that's invaded Russia multiple times, not vice versa.

You're lapping up absolute hogwash meant to deceive people into supporting the conflict. Wisen up.
 
beast crnjo said:
How many bombs do you think Russia has dropped on foreign nations vs the US since then? Russia already has massive amounts of land. They idea that they want to take over Europe is absolutely ridiculous. It's Europe that's invaded Russia multiple times, not vice versa.

You're lapping up absolute hogwash meant to deceive people into supporting the conflict. Wisen up.
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So.....because Napoleon and Hitler invaded Russia in past centuries, that makes "Europe" the aggressor in the Twenty First Century??? You need to quit reading MAGA's convenient alternative history bullshit and start actually doing your homework. All the factual historical information out there and you keep taking the lazy way out. And don't hand me the typical "the victors write the history" bullshit. The truth is always out there if you work hard enough to find it. But please give us an example of Europe invading Russia in the last 80 years.......
 
Just heard a new to me "theory" on why Putin wants to take control of more land to the west, even beyond Ukraine.

Today, Russia has about 4,000 miles of open borders. Much of their border is controlled by countries Russia considers hostle to their system and security.

It is beyond difficult for Russia to defend 4,000 miles of open borders. Most consider it impossible.

If Putin can take Ukraine, Poland, Romania, plus some other lands. Russia can use the seas, deserts, and mountains to reduce their open borders, usable by an army, to about 400 miles. Making it next to impossible for anyone to invade them.
 
oldfisherman said:
Just heard a new to me "theory" on why Putin wants to take control of more land to the west, even beyond Ukraine.

Today, Russia has about 4,000 miles of open borders. Much of their border is controlled by countries Russia considers hostle to their system and security.

It is beyond difficult for Russia to defend 4,000 miles of open borders. Most consider it impossible.

If Putin can take Ukraine, Poland, Romania, plus some other lands. Russia can use the seas, deserts, and mountains to reduce their open borders, usable by an army, to about 400 miles. Making it next to impossible for anyone to invade them.
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Let's see... countries that are militarily strong enough to invade Russia.

1. USA
2. China

Neither of them has any interest in this.

And even if the US and China wanted to invade, Russia's nuclear capabilities make this a very bad idea.
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
So.....because Napoleon and Hitler invaded Russia in past centuries, that makes "Europe" the aggressor in the Twenty First Century??? You need to quit reading MAGA's convenient alternative history bullshit and start actually doing your homework. All the factual historical information out there and you keep taking the lazy way out. And don't hand me the typical "the victors write the history" bullshit. The truth is always out there if you work hard enough to find it. But please give us an example of Europe invading Russia in the last 80 years.......
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There's no evidence that Russia is interested in expanding into Europe, it's nonsense. And you don't think the memory of the invasions of the 20th century still resonate there? That wasn't that long ago, do you know how many millions of them died? We in the US have no concept of what that is like. And it's NATO that has been expanding into their territory, it's the US/NATO expanding towards their border. It's the US that has openly stated they want to overthrow Putin. So if anyone is concerned about empire building, it should be the Russians.

You want to see everything through the lens of "MAGA", that's another psyop.

People need to wisen up.
 
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