Politics Ukraine / Russia (5 Viewers)

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Another ship sunk yesterday or the day before. Supposedly it was the most modern ship in the Black Sea fleet.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Russia is going to try and bomb the whole country like that now.

The question is, how long can they do that?

And can the Ukrainians hold out that long?
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The US is giving them (Ukraine) 155 Howitzers that have 20 mile range. Also we are showing them how to use them.
Ground to air missiles for protection from the air and drones to attack their positions.
Any weapons and troops that can hit a Ukrainian target will also be in range and at risk.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
The US is giving them (Ukraine) 155 Howitzers that have 20 mile range. Also we are showing them how to use them.
Ground to air missiles for protection from the air and drones to attack their positions.
Any weapons and troops that can hit a Ukrainian target will also be in range and at risk.
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It still seems so ridiculous to me that we are 1) giving them weapons 2) money 3) intel 4) strategy 5) education but “we” aren’t at war. So Russia wont use nukes for all of that but if we use boots on the ground they would?
 
calvin natt said:
It still seems so ridiculous to me that we are 1) giving them weapons 2) money 3) intel 4) strategy 5) education but “we” aren’t at war. So Russia wont use nukes for all of that but if we use boots on the ground they would?
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Exactly!
End the war. End it now quickly!
 
calvin natt said:
It still seems so ridiculous to me that we are 1) giving them weapons 2) money 3) intel 4) strategy 5) education but “we” aren’t at war. So Russia wont use nukes for all of that but if we use boots on the ground they would?
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Russia still thinks they can win. Let them get sick of war and sanctions until they just want rid of Putin. Then they can take him out.

They won't use nukes now because they know we can ratchet things WAY up. To the point that nukes are the only way they could compete.

We don't put them on that situation this way.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Russia still thinks they can win. Let them get sick of war and sanctions until they just want rid of Putin. Then they can take him out.

They won't use nukes now because they know we can ratchet things WAY up.
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If we think they won’t use Nukes we need to end this shit now. People are dying. There will be nothing left. There won’t be anything for them to come back to in Ukraine.
 
calvin natt said:
If we think they won’t use Nukes we need to end this shit now. People are dying. There will be nothing left. There won’t be anything for them to come back to in Ukraine.
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And like usual the burden of rebuilding will fall upon the west.
 
calvin natt said:
If we think they won’t use Nukes we need to end this shit now. People are dying. There will be nothing left. There won’t be anything for them to come back to in Ukraine.
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The only way they use nukes on anybody outside the Ukraine is if we push too hard.

I could see them MAYBE getting desperate enough to use tactical nukes to make a point in Ukraine, but that would be very localized damage. But almost surely not. They gain no tactical advantage.

There is no way they launch any Big Boys if they don't run up against NATO troops.

It's the difference between throwing a frog in hot water or letting it sit in slowly warming water until it's too weak to get out.
 
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It seems like Russia is getting pushed back. Their military is really looking like a joke.

looks like the citizens in Maripol that were stranded in the steel mill hve finally been freed. The Russians must have finally realized it was suicide to try and get them.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
If you mock Joe Biden in any way and look past this you are a hypocrite!
FRgw--dX0AAB-GC
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In other words he has no idea.
 
Everything surrounding this shit is fucked up. Unfortuneately this is ready made "Russophobia" propaganda for Russian state television.
 
We Were Right All Along!



Short version: It's a proxy war.
 
Biden Wants $33 Billion More For the War in Ukraine. Which Americans Benefit?

 
Downed Russian fighter jets are being found with basic GPS 'taped to the dashboards,' UK defense minister says
  • Russia is taping basic GPS devices to its fighter jets' dashboards, the UK's defense minister said.
  • Ben Wallace said this was due to "the poor quality" of Russia's own navigation systems.
  • Russia's military hardware, much of which appears outdated, is being tested as the invasion drags on.


Wrecked Russian fighter jets are being found with rudimentary GPS receivers "taped to the dashboards" in Ukraine because their inbuilt navigation systems are so bad, the UK's defense secretary, Ben Wallace, said.

Speaking at the National Army Museum in London Monday, Wallace commemorated those who died in World War II and called Russia's invasion of Ukraine "senseless and self-defeating."

He added that there was evidence suggesting Russian military hardware was being pushed to breaking point by the invasion of Ukraine.

"'GPS' receivers have been found taped to the dashboards of downed Russian Su-34s so the pilots knew where they were, due to the poor quality of their own systems," he said.

"The result is that whilst Russia have large amounts of artillery and armor that they like parading, they are unable to leverage them for combined arms maneuver and just resort to mass indiscriminate barrages," he added.

The Su-34 was first manufactured in the Soviet Union in the early 1990s but is still one of Russia's leading fighter jets.

Ukraine has shared abundant evidence of what it says are Russia's attempts to patch over issues with old military equipment and bypass equipment shortages.

Last month, Ukrainian troops paraded what they said was a Russian drone that had been covered in duct tape and fitted with a generic plastic bottle top for a fuel cap. In March, Ukrainian troops found what appeared to be Russian army bandages dating to 1978 discarded on a battlefield.

In his Monday speech, Wallace said Russian vehicles "are frequently found with 1980s paper maps of Ukraine in them" and that soldiers were using "pine logs as makeshift protection on logistical trucks" and attaching "overhead 'cope cages' to their tanks."

Russia held its annual Victory Day military parade in Moscow on Monday but canceled the air force flyby over what it said was bad weather.

https://www.businessinsider.com/rus...-2022-5?utm_source=feedly&utm_medium=webfeeds
 
Road Ratt said:
Biden Wants $33 Billion More For the War in Ukraine. Which Americans Benefit?

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This is the largest refugee crisis in history. Of course it's expensive. Of course we should offer support.

Sending people the means to defend their country from an aggressor is the the most moral move we've made possibly since running Sadam out of Kuwait.

Also, this prevents Russia from gaining quick victory and pivoting to a NATO ally, which we would then be obligated to defend. Leading to direct conflict between US and Russian soldiers.

Sure, there will be people getting rich, but that's how our politics works. It's not like that because we're helping Ukraine defend itself. It's like that because we refuse to fix our system.
 
Phatguysrule said:
This is the largest refugee crisis in history. Of course it's expensive. Of course we should offer support.

Sending people the means to defend their country from an aggressor is the the most moral move we've made possibly since running Sadam out of Kuwait.
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No. The moral argument only goes for humanitarian aid, not military aid. Our moral obligation is to make sure this war ends ASAP. Fighting a proxy war with Russia, by sending billions in military aid, is not a path towards peace.

Phatguysrule said:
Also, this prevents Russia from gaining quick victory and pivoting to a NATO ally, which we would then be obligated to defend. Leading to direct conflict between US and Russian soldiers.
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This is an assumption. One that I am simply not on board with. Why? Because it ties our hands into one option only: to feed the fire to prevent a supposed bigger fire. None of which I have seen evidence for.

Phatguysrule said:
Sure, there will be people getting rich, but that's how our politics works.
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Yes, Corruption 101. But it obviously shouldn't be this way. And we should all be pushing to change our "politics as usual". Not, side... with it.



I am not in support of Putin's actions, nor am I in support of America's actions. Defense contractor profiteering, and our governments mysterious inability to stop it, leaves me unable to believe our own government, on very little of anything at all.

Stopping Putin in Ukraine literally won't stop anything. It will only prolong it. If Putin is truly crazy, and set on attacking a NATO country(ies) next, World War III has already begun and we should all bend over and kiss our pretty little butts goodbye. The logic that stopping Putin now is simply a fallacy (If his true intentions are to fight WWIII, that is).
 
jonnyboy said:
Aww poor politicians and their contractor buddies will be forced to make billions while the rest of us pay for it. A burden indeed.
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I guess you would prefer leaving the damage and destruction to just sit there. I'm wondering where you work? Does the company you work for or own not make money? Where exactly does that money come from? Maybe the idea is to use money from the Russian Sanctions and Tariffs or Duty fees to pay for it?

Or does everything have to be a dirty conspiracy to be real?
 
Road Ratt said:
No. The moral argument only goes for humanitarian aid, not military aid. Our moral obligation is to make sure this war ends ASAP. Fighting a proxy war with Russia, by sending billions in military aid, is not a path towards peace.



This is an assumption. One that I am simply not on board with. Why? Because it ties our hands into one option only: to feed the fire to prevent a supposed bigger fire. None of which I have seen evidence for.



Yes, Corruption 101. But it obviously shouldn't be this way. And we should all be pushing to change our "politics as usual". Not, side... with it.



I am not in support of Putin's actions, nor am I in support of America's actions. Defense contractor profiteering, and our governments mysterious inability to stop it, leaves me unable to believe our own government, on very little of anything at all.

Stopping Putin in Ukraine literally won't stop anything. It will only prolong it. If Putin is truly crazy, and set on attacking a NATO country(ies) next, World War III has already begun and we should all bend over and kiss our pretty little butts goodbye. The logic that stopping Putin now is simply a fallacy (If his true intentions are to fight WWIII, that is).
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I simply disagree. Ending the war as fast as possible would be allowing Putin to steamroll Ukraine and take it over.

Not an option.

Russia's demographics and lack of educated or skilled youth demand that it conquer nearly all of its neighbors or it will die. Russia has proven this is the way it sees things with the military actions it has taken over the past 20 years.

Stopping Putin in Ukraine hastens Russia's demise and keeps the damage to Ukraine rather than the other countries Russia would have to target next to maintain control of their population.

Putin doesn't want to just attack a NATO country. He wants to take small chunks as police actions that will not cause a big problem until he controls enough that it's no longer worth an international incident.

Farmers do this all the time. I know a farmer who has added acres to dozens of parcels this way. Then he sues for ownership. Everybody knows what he's doing, but in the end it costs too much claw it back. So they let it go.

I'm all aboard with ending the corruption, but not with a "starve the beast" strategy. We have to keep government working, and starving the beast simply encourages more corruption.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
I guess you would prefer leaving the damage and destruction to just sit there. I'm wondering where you work? Does the company you work for or own not make money? Where exactly does that money come from? Maybe the idea is to use money from the Russian Sanctions and Tariffs or Duty fees to pay for it?

Or does everything have to be a dirty conspiracy to be real?
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Oh you still think we’re out saving the world, funny.
 
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