Politics Ukraine / Russia (2 Viewers)

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jonnyboy said:


Fringe alt-right outlet The New York Times reports Ukraine now snatching people off the streets, including the mentally handicapped, and forcing them to conscript. The equality to go fight and die in Ukraine isn’t just for women and old people anymore, the mentally handicapped have earned their stripes. What a good thing. Maybe they can get children on board next? I hope my tax dollars pay for it.
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Yes, life sucks for countries who are invaded by nuclear powers.

If only Russia would stop. Then Ukraine wouldn't need to defend itself.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Yes, life sucks for countries who are invaded by nuclear powers.

If only Russia would stop. Then Ukraine wouldn't need to defend itself.
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Defend itself with mentally handicapped people, women and the elderly?
 
barfo said:
Episode 7. In this episode, jonnyboy discovers to his horror that life during wartime is not at all pleasant. He wonders why they just don't stop the war and make everything nice again? He befriends a stray dog and finds a pack of cigarettes in the woods, but is still feeling unsettled as the credits roll.

barfo
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I love the new “nobody said war was fun” outfit on you. It looks way better than the “Ukraine is winning” one did.
 
jonnyboy said:
Defend itself with mentally handicapped people, women and the elderly?
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You don't think the US has done that? I'm pretty sure the vast majority of them want to help defend their country.

And yes, mentally challenged people are taken advantage of and abused all the time. More so in times of war.

I don't believe this is a goal, or that any Ukrainian is proud of it.
 
Phatguysrule said:
You don't think the US has done that? I'm pretty sure the vast majority of them want to help defend their country.

And yes, mentally challenged people are taken advantage of and abused all the time. More so in times of war.

I don't believe this is a goal, or that any Ukrainian is proud of it.
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Jesus man read what the fuck you just wrote. I’m not even going to attempt to put a thoughtful post together because there is just nothing to even say to this.
 
jonnyboy said:
Jesus man read what the fuck you just wrote. I’m not even going to attempt to put a thoughtful post together because there is just nothing to even say to this.
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I said war sucks. Russia should probably stop making war on their neighbors.

I don't think Ukraine is deliberately targeting handicapped people.

War sucks. Again, Russia should stop making war.
 
jonnyboy said:
I love the new “nobody said war was fun” outfit on you. It looks way better than the “Ukraine is winning” one did.
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Hah. I don't believe I ever claimed Ukraine was winning, although I do hope for them to do so.

I wonder why you don't? What is it that makes you a cheerleader for Russia?

barfo
 
barfo said:
Hah. I don't believe I ever claimed Ukraine was winning, although I do hope for them to do so.

I wonder why you don't? What is it that makes you a cheerleader for Russia?

barfo
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Equally ridiculous question: what makes you cheerlead the forcing mentally handicapped people to fight in war? Why do you do that?
 
jonnyboy said:
Equally ridiculous question: what makes you cheerlead the forcing mentally handicapped people to fight in war? Why do you do that?
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Nobody is cheerleading that. That you are going there makes your position appear dishonest... Or at the very least, it makes one question your motives.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I don't think Ukraine is deliberately targeting handicapped people.
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Snatching people off the street and forcing them to fight a war is deliberate. They didn’t slip, fall and accidentally load people into a van and take them to the conscription depot.
Just say you don’t care they are doing it. Wouldn’t it be easier than trying to make silly excuses? Just say you support it, because you do.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Nobody is cheerleading that. That you are going there makes your position appear dishonest... Or at the very least, it makes one question your motives.
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I called it ridiculous. I was poking fun at him saying I’m “cheerleading” for Russia. It’s just the go-to criticism from boomer warmongers with no argument.
 
jonnyboy said:
I called it ridiculous. I was poking fun at him saying I’m “cheerleading” for Russia. It’s just the go-to criticism from boomer warmongers with no argument.
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Ukraine is defending their country. Anything other than supporting their goal of removing Russian forces from their borders is a very questionable position, IMO.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Ukraine is defending their country. Anything other than supporting their goal of removing Russian forces from their borders is a very questionable position, IMO.
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Let’s stay on task. You support forced conscription and making mentally handicapped people fight in war. I know your position now. Thank you.
 
jonnyboy said:
Let’s stay on task. You support forced conscription and making mentally handicapped people fight in war. I know your position now. Thank you.
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Why can't you have this conversation without stooping to strawman tactics?

If you can't support your point without such tactics it leads me to believe you don't have a point which is worthy of consideration.
 
jonnyboy said:
Cute nursery rhyme. You go fight there then. Don’t quit.
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I've done my time in the Marine Corps, I have scars, and they are all on the front.

I just figured you out. You don't know the differance between right and wrong.
 
oldfisherman said:
I've done my time in the Marine Corps, I have scars, and they are all on the front.

I just figured you out. You don't know the differance between right and wrong.
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Forcing mentally handicapped people, women and people who are too old to fight is wrong. You and the other guy are defending it, and using vague justifications and lame platitudes to defend your positions (when you’re not avoiding it altogether).
Plenty of people have served in the military. It doesn’t make all their bad takes correct. Your assertion that I’m somehow a coward because I’m not sitting on my couch cheerleading a contractor’s war is a fucking stupid one.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Why can't you have this conversation without stooping to strawman tactics?

If you can't support your point without such tactics it leads me to believe you don't have a point which is worthy of consideration.
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The conversation between you and I has gotten as far as it’s going to go. I know where you stand, you know where I stand. Pointless for me to bring up the mentally handicapped anymore because it just makes you squirm and blurt out vague, irrelevant things to avoid it.
 
jonnyboy said:
The conversation between you and I has gotten as far as it’s going to go. I know where you stand, you know where I stand. Pointless for me to bring up the mentally handicapped anymore because it just makes you squirm and blurt out vague, irrelevant things to avoid it.
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Seemed like a simple question. Of course, more strawman arguments must be conjured to even address that...

I agree, forcing the mentally handicapped into war is wrong. But nobody is going to cease supporting Ukraine defending their borders from a nuclear power because they have to draft all men and women and even some children to further that effort. Even if that means some who should not be, are unfortunately caught up in the fight.

War sucks. Russia should cease their attack. Russia is at fault here. Ukraine will make some missteps in the effort at self defense. Every invaded country does.
 
jonnyboy said:
Snatching people off the street and forcing them to fight a war is deliberate. They didn’t slip, fall and accidentally load people into a van and take them to the conscription depot.
Just say you don’t care they are doing it. Wouldn’t it be easier than trying to make silly excuses? Just say you support it, because you do.
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I can understand how it could happen in the defense of your country, without being considered malicious or as some former of genocide.

That doesn't mean I agree with this act (tactic?) or support it. Regardless of your claims and straw men.

These are bogus tactics that will get you nothing other than dismissive responses and questions about why you are so supportive of Russian imperialism.
 
russian defector exposes some of the lies and crimes of Putin over the last ten years. Specifically reveals that so-called separatist actions in eastern Ukraine were all done by russia and that they subverted Minsk agreements with attacks against their own people. And that russian soldiers were ordered to execute civilians, this was not just random violence.

Summary of claims made by Russian defector, GRU Military Intelligence Colonel Igor Salikov, in his affidavit to the International Criminal Court. • Igor Salikov wishes to surrender to the ICC and face justice, as it appears he committed war crimes in Ukraine. 2014 Russian invasion of Ukraine •
Worked with Dmitry ‘Wagner’ Utkin even before the formation of Wagner PMC, including at Redut PMC.
• Participated in Russia's military coup of government in eastern Ukraine in 2014, ordered by Putin’s Presidential Administration.
• Witnessed the mechanisms of the fraudulent ‘referendum’ in occupied Donetsk in 2014, leading to the formation of ‘Donetsk People’s Republic.’
• Commanded an FSB special forces unit in occupied Donbas under the guise of ‘Ukrainian separatists.’
• In 2015, witnessed false-flag operations of Russian forces shelling Ukrainian civilians in Donbas which were blamed on the Ukrainian Armed Forces, with the specific purpose of disrupting the ‘Minsk-2’ peace agreement between Ukraine and Russia.
• Witnessed the Russian forces mining the streets and paths in occupied Donbas in the spring of 2015 with the specific intent to murder Ukrainian civilians and blame the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Many Ukrainian civilians died including children.
• Witnessed torture and executions of civilians in Ukraine & Syria.
• Witnessed a mass purge of field commanders by Wagner PMC in 2014-2015 in occupied Donbas. 2022 Russian Invasion of Ukraine
• Was head of Russian military intelligence detachment tasked with capturing the SBU headquarters in Kyiv and assassinating key SBU employees at the onset of the Feb 2022 invasion. Entered Ukraine through Chernobyl. Three Ukrainian security service traitors from the Yanukovich era were attached to his unit.
• Witnessed torture and executions of Ukrainian prisoners of war.
• At the end of March 2022, was tasked with the execution of 5 Ukrainian civilians in Bucha. However, Salikov disobeyed the order and instead released the hostages. Russian military opened a criminal case against him for this act, but Salikov was able to flee and has been in hiding ever since, until arriving in the Netherlands to turn himself in to the ICC on December 18th 2023.
• Already provided extensive testimony of Russian war crimes to Ukraine's Prosecutor General [confirmed]
• Worked with Human rights defender Vladimir Osechkin for over 1 year after fleeing Russia to prepare & organize testimony to the ICC [confirmed]
 
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Rather than watch some bullshit video I actually read the NYTimes piece. They found exactly one mentally handicapped guy who had been drafted and his lawyer got him out. There are 226 court cases involving guys they think were illegally mobilized. They are not in the army pending the resolution of those cases. And that's a big difference between russia and Ukraine. No one can report on what is happening in russia because anyone who tells the truth goes to jail. And if you get conscripted illegally, there is no legal recourse.
Just to follow up a little on the differences between the two countries. UN and human rights groups have full access to all POW camps in Ukraine, and absolutely no access to POW camps in russia. Also no access to camps where thousands of Ukrainian civilians are being held, basically as hostages.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Rather than watch some bullshit video I actually read the NYTimes piece. They found exactly one mentally handicapped guy who had been drafted and his lawyer got him out. There are 226 court cases involving guys they think were illegally mobilized. They are not in the army pending the resolution of those cases. And that's a big difference between russia and Ukraine. No one can report on what is happening in russia because anyone who tells the truth goes to jail. And if you get conscripted illegally, there is no legal recourse.
Just to follow up a little on the differences between the two countries. UN and human rights groups have full access to all POW camps in Ukraine, and absolutely no access to POW camps in russia. Also no access to camps where thousands of Ukrainian civilians are being held, basically as hostages.
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Novel concept, going to the source, versus some jackasses slanted view of the source.
 
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