Politics Ukraine / Russia (2 Viewers)

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Randy Mott
@randymot4

RUSSIA SCAMS US RIGHT WING There is a focused Russian campaign of fake allegations that is used to influence the U.S. right wing. This earlier took the form of various attacks on Zellensky personally (drug abuse, corruption, anti-democratic, gay, Nazi, etc.). See thread below if you or a friend actually believed any of this crap. The new campaign includes some of this but also new themes that the Ukrainian army is collapsing, that Russian is deliberately "holding back" its best military stuff, etc. All total nonsense. The budget for the latest effort is actually $1.5 billion for Russian disinformation. This is real and amazingly effective if you do not check facts. Please get serious, lives are at stake. #RussianPropaganda#ZellesnkyScams $1.5 billion effort:
https://x.com/Svidomi_En/status/1729829692906115431?s=20…

Thread on Zelesnky:
 
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PS01
@PStyle0ne1

"90% of the military aid we provided to Ukraine was actually spent in the USA" - Secretary of State Blinken "A couple of words, more for the American audience. If you look at the capital investment that we've made for the defense of Ukraine, it's clear that 90% of the military aid that we've given has actually been spent here in the United States with our manufacturers, and that has led to more American jobs, to growing our economy. So it's a win-win for us and a win-win for them. We've got to keep it going."
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Randy Mott
@randymot4

RUSSIA SCAMS US RIGHT WING There is a focused Russian campaign of fake allegations that is used to influence the U.S. right wing. This earlier took the form of various attacks on Zellensky personally (drug abuse, corruption, anti-democratic, gay, Nazi, etc.). See thread below if you or a friend actually believed any of this crap. The new campaign includes some of this but also new themes that the Ukrainian army is collapsing, that Russian is deliberately "holding back" its best military stuff, etc. All total nonsense. The budget for the latest effort is actually $1.5 billion for Russian disinformation. This is real and amazingly effective if you do not check facts. Please get serious, lives are at stake. #RussianPropaganda#ZellesnkyScams $1.5 billion effort:
https://x.com/Svidomi_En/status/1729829692906115431?s=20…

Thread on Zelesnky:
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Not to say you are wrong by any means, but honest question.

How does one know what links are true and what aren't, online? I mean, cant just about anything be fabricated/manipulated how one sees fit with ANYTHING online?

How does one know the same isn't happening on the other side?

I agree. Lives are at stake and this is very serious. I find it very difficult to figure out what is a fact and what is not.
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
Not to say you are wrong by any means, but honest question.

How does one know what links are true and what aren't, online? I mean, cant just about anything be fabricated/manipulated how one sees fit with ANYTHING online?

How does one know the same isn't happening on the other side?

I agree. Lives are at stake and this is very serious. I find it very difficult to figure out what is a fact and what is not.
Click to expand...
Well, here is one rule. If it's coming from russia, almost certainly a lie. For example today TASS reported russian MOD says they have knocked out over 500 Ukrainian war planes already. Ukraine started the war with about 105 war planes. They got about 30 old MIGs from Poland and maybe Slovakia. Forbes says they still have about 105 planes, we know that they fly about a dozen sorties every day.
russia also claims they have knocked out many more HIMARs than Ukraine ever received and there is not even one HIMARs destruction confirmed with a video or photo.
If you have any specific questions about certain claims, I will be glad to answer. I follow daily dozens of sources, both Ukrainian and russsian. On my FB and X account I try to always include what ever is happening, whether positive or negative for Ukraine.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Well, here is one rule. If it's coming from russia, almost certainly a lie. For example today TASS reported russian MOD says they have knocked out over 500 Ukrainian war planes already. Ukraine started the war with about 105 war planes. They got about 30 old MIGs from Poland and maybe Slovakia. Forbes says they still have about 105 planes, we know that they fly about a dozen sorties every day.
russia also claims they have knocked out many more HIMARs than Ukraine ever received and there is not even one HIMARs destruction confirmed with a video or photo.
If you have any specific questions about certain claims, I will be glad to answer. I follow daily dozens of sources, both Ukrainian and russsian. On my FB and X account I try to always include what ever is happening, whether positive or negative for Ukraine.
Click to expand...

But that's your opinion. Half the country thinks anything coming out of Biden or Ukraine is a lie. How are these things you are saying proven?
How do we know Ukraine isn't propagandizing the Russian statements?
I mean no disrespect questioning you. Its just in todays world, I question everything that is typed up online.

To me its a finger pointing game with no validation of anything.

So lets say I ask for where you got the info regarding the numbers in the TASS report regarding the planes. How do I know the link or info you provide is actually true and not propagandized like most everything else?
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
But that's your opinion. Half the country thinks anything coming out of Biden or Ukraine is a lie. How are these things you are saying proven?
How do we know Ukraine isn't propagandizing the Russian statements?
I mean no disrespect questioning you. Its just in todays world, I question everything that is typed up online.

To me its a finger pointing game with no validation of anything.

So lets say I ask for where you got the info regarding the numbers in the TASS report regarding the planes. How do I know the link or info you provide is actually true and not propagandized like most everything else?
Click to expand...

What makes more sense to you:

Russia making up shit to justify and create support for an illegal invasion of a sovereign nation?

Ukraine making up shit to justify defending themselves from an illegal invasion?
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
But that's your opinion. Half the country thinks anything coming out of Biden or Ukraine is a lie. How are these things you are saying proven?
How do we know Ukraine isn't propagandizing the Russian statements?
I mean no disrespect questioning you. Its just in todays world, I question everything that is typed up online.

To me its a finger pointing game with no validation of anything.

So lets say I ask for where you got the info regarding the numbers in the TASS report regarding the planes. How do I know the link or info you provide is actually true and not propagandized like most everything else?
Click to expand...
I don't mean this with disrespect either. but this is the exact purpose of russian propaganda, not necessarily to make people believe their lies, but to make people believe in nothing.
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
But that's your opinion. Half the country thinks anything coming out of Biden or Ukraine is a lie. How are these things you are saying proven?
How do we know Ukraine isn't propagandizing the Russian statements?
I mean no disrespect questioning you. Its just in todays world, I question everything that is typed up online.

To me its a finger pointing game with no validation of anything.

So lets say I ask for where you got the info regarding the numbers in the TASS report regarding the planes. How do I know the link or info you provide is actually true and not propagandized like most everything else?
Click to expand...
Here is a tweet from TASS. I guess if you want to believe this is not really TASS, well, that is your choice.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Here is a tweet from TASS. I guess if you want to believe this is not really TASS, well, that is your choice.
Click to expand...

BTW. the correction to this tweet is not correct. I believe the 240 includes helicopters, while TASS is talking about warplanes. The report cited shows Ukraine with 102 of those.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
BTW. the correction to this tweet is not correct. I believe the 240 includes helicopters, while TASS is talking about warplanes. The report cited shows Ukraine with 102 of those.
Click to expand...
Just one more note. While I was looking at that global aircraft report I decided to look up russia. They have 1448 combat aircraft, about 14 times what Ukraine has and yet they are now afraid to fly over Ukrainian held territory.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Just one more note. While I was looking at that global aircraft report I decided to look up russia. They have 1448 combat aircraft, about 14 times what Ukraine has and yet they are now afraid to fly over Ukrainian held territory.
Click to expand...

One of the biggest problems for Ukranian front area troops has been attacks from Russia's low flying helicopters. The radar systems have a difficult time picking them up until they are very close.

That is all going to change when Ukraine receives the F16. Most people assume the F16 will be used as an offensive weapon. I beleive its main use will come from its very superior radar system flying high in the air. Not only will it pick up low flying helicopters at a much further distance. It can be used to track incoming missiles from a long distance.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
I don't mean this with disrespect either. but this is the exact purpose of russian propaganda, not necessarily to make people believe their lies, but to make people believe in nothing.
Click to expand...
Not just Russia. This is what authoritarians have relied on forever.
 
So, I've just read through a few days' worth of TASS tweets, and I've learned something about myself. I absolutely hate headlines that are formatted as: "Such-and-such happened/will happen, so-and-so says:" Demonstrates a complete lack of journalistic integrity since it doesn't require any actual investigation/verification of the claim to be reported, because all they're reporting is that somebody said it, not that it's actually factual. Seeing how many of their tweets are formatted in that fashion tells me everything I need to know about that alleged "news" agency.
 
oldfisherman said:
One of the biggest problems for Ukranian front area troops has been attacks from Russia's low flying helicopters. The radar systems have a difficult time picking them up until they are very close.

That is all going to change when Ukraine receives the F16. Most people assume the F16 will be used as an offensive weapon. I beleive its main use will come from its very superior radar system flying high in the air. Not only will it pick up low flying helicopters at a much further distance. It can be used to track incoming missiles from a long distance.
Click to expand...
Yes, hopefully it can force the russian warplanes to drop those glidebombs from even further away, making them even less accurate.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
So, I've just read through a few days' worth of TASS tweets, and I've learned something about myself. I absolutely hate headlines that are formatted as: "Such-and-such happened/will happen, so-and-so says:" Demonstrates a complete lack of journalistic integrity since it doesn't require any actual investigation/verification of the claim to be reported, because all they're reporting is that somebody said it, not that it's actually factual. Seeing how many of their tweets are formatted in that fashion tells me everything I need to know about that alleged "news" agency.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what someone secretly working for TASS would say.
 
Max Boot: "I’m sorry, that’s not how a serious political party — or a serious country — behaves during a world crisis. It’s like saying to President Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1941: We won’t support aid to Britain as it battles the Nazis unless Democrats repeal the Social Security Act or rewrite the labor laws."
The GOP’s abandonment of Ukraine makes me ashamed to be an American
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/12/08/ukraine-gop-congress-aid/
 
My, such propaganda from this Ukrainian reporter, she deserves a good licking.

 
SlyPokerDog said:
What makes more sense to you:

Russia making up shit to justify and create support for an illegal invasion of a sovereign nation?

Ukraine making up shit to justify defending themselves from an illegal invasion?
Click to expand...

Though I think this is a very simplistic question that doesn’t really get into all of the complications and facets of the situation, of course I choose door number one.
But it really is a lot more complicated than that. And there is a shit on of misinformation out there.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
I don't mean this with disrespect either. but this is the exact purpose of russian propaganda, not necessarily to make people believe their lies, but to make people believe in nothing.
Click to expand...

True. It is a hard path to follow though, when it seems both sides spend more time (mostly successfully) debunking the other’ claims instead of just reporting the truth.
it really does make one want to move to no man’s land and remain removed from it all and come back out after the dust settles.
 
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UKRAINEFAN said:
Max Boot: "I’m sorry, that’s not how a serious political party — or a serious country — behaves during a world crisis. It’s like saying to President Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1941: We won’t support aid to Britain as it battles the Nazis unless Democrats repeal the Social Security Act or rewrite the labor laws."
The GOP’s abandonment of Ukraine makes me ashamed to be an American
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/12/08/ukraine-gop-congress-aid/
Click to expand...
good post. At times I wish the President could line item veto so a decision could be made w/o have to take on other shit.
 
Part of this info has been confirmed by Russia, the rest, you decide.

Russia has confirmed one of their experienced training pilots was shot and killed at a bus stop inside Russia.

Why this may be important. It is believed due to combat losses of experienced Russian pilots. Russia has been calling up retired military pilots up to 60 years old.
 
oldfisherman said:
Part of this info has been confirmed by Russia, the rest, you decide.

Russia has confirmed one of their experienced training pilots was shot and killed at a bus stop inside Russia.

Why this may be important. It is believed due to combat losses of experienced Russian pilots. Russia has been calling up retired military pilots up to 60 years old.
Click to expand...
So did they call him up and he refused to go?

So they shot him?
 
Elon Musk has used his platform to spread a Russian lie that an American has been in Ukrainian prison for five years and is being tortured.

Tucker Carlson shortened it to months, claimed the American was jailed for criticizing Zelensky and repeated torture lie.

Both added Biden approved the arrest and torture because he wants to do the same here.

Xitter own community notes corrected Musk.

The man has been held since May for publicizing military information, not tortured, trial set for this month.
 
Phatguysrule said:
So did they call him up and he refused to go?

So they shot him?
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He was active duty training new pilots. And had a reputation that made his death news worthy.

My impressions, maybe wrong, FWIW

No clue who killed him or why. My guess is an Ukrainian special operation. But it could also have been a jealous husband, you decide.

I do believe some retired Russian military pilots have been called up. No idea if it is 60-50 or 40 years old. Or maybe a select few with special skills. You decide.
 
oldfisherman said:
He was active duty training new pilots. And had a reputation that made his death news worthy.

My impressions, maybe wrong, FWIW

No clue who killed him or why. My guess is an Ukrainian special operation. But it could also have been a jealous husband, you decide.

I do believe some retired Russian military pilots have been called up. No idea if it is 60-50 or 40 years old. Or maybe a select few with special skills. You decide.
Click to expand...
Gotcha. Thanks for the info!

Yeah, hate to say it, but if he's going around nailing married women he probably got what was coming to him...

Wouldn't be surprised if it were Ukrainian special operation either. Wouldn't blame Ukraine for that either... Lol
 
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