Politics Ukraine / Russia (4 Viewers)

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UKRAINEFAN said:
First, I wanted to thank you for being so well informed as to what is going on over there. Just want to question one little thing. Because Ukraine represents the light in this conflict, I want to clear up one thing. I don't want us to be like some on here who just throw out blatant falsehoods with no evidence. I don't think they have anywhere near 17,000 russian POWs. Although Ukraine puts a lot of effort into providing information to russians on how to surrender, in practical terms it is very difficult to surrender without being shot down by their own troops. It was a big event that 60 surrendered over a 20 day period on one front recently. I would be surprised if they have more than a couple thousand. BTW, russia is refusing to participate in prisoner exchanges any longer. Most likely hoping to use all the Ukrainian soldiers and civilians as hostages.
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oldfisherman said:
If you believe my 17,000 is off, then it probably is. I will try to find the pow report I saw, and try to figure what is going on. Thanks for the heads-up.
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Ukrainefan, an update on the Russian POWs in Ukraine. Short version, I don't have a clue.

I couldn't find any "official" reports. There are many reports which are probably propaganda.

I finally gave up when I was looking at at two reports, both believable, yet they contradicted each other.

Conclusion for now. Whoever controls the propaganda coming out of Ukraine, is damn good.
 
Second guessing is easy for people far from the action but the generals in Ukraine had to make decisions that affected the lives of their beloved soldiers. It's especially wrong for anyone in the Biden administration to criticize them, considering how little military aid went to them and how late it came. Just learned recently that USA only sent 20 of the ATACM long range rockets and they only had half the range of most ATACMs. These rockets could have done the job of cutting off Crimea from the rest of russian-occupied Ukraine just as well as a counteroffensive and without losing any lives.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Second guessing is easy for people far from the action but the generals in Ukraine had to make decisions that affected the lives of their beloved soldiers. It's especially wrong for anyone in the Biden administration to criticize them, considering how little military aid went to them and how late it came. Just learned recently that USA only sent 20 of the ATACM long range rockets and they only had half the range of most ATACMs. These rockets could have done the job of cutting off Crimea from the rest of russian-occupied Ukraine just as well as a counteroffensive and without losing any lives.
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Agree, also I believe a strong case
can be made that Biden doesn't want this war to end soon.

He brags about the $billions worth of military hardware donated to the fight. However, everything he sent, other than the few air defense systems, and the few rockets, was all older equipment marked to be scrapped soon or sold for pennies.

And I agree with your comment about the equipment arriving late. Ukraine had the Russians making a big retreat on several fronts. However, Ukraine ran out of equipment and had to stop. Biden gave the Russians 8 months to build very extensive defensive fortifications. Therefore the latest offensive was not as successful as hoped for. And cost Ukraine and Russia many extra lives. The battle is now deadlocked.

Biden didn't send the equipment asked for, and what he did send arrived too late.
 
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oldfisherman said:
Agree, also I believe a strong case
can be made that Biden doesn't want this war to end soon.

He brags about the $billions worth of military hardware donated to the fight. However, everything he sent, other than the few air defense systems, and the few rockets, was all older equipment marked to be scrapped soon or sold for pennies.

And I agree with your comment about the equipment arriving late. Ukraine had the Russians making a big retreat on several fronts. However, Ukraine ran out of equipment and had to stop. Biden gave the Russians 8 months to build very extensive defensive fortifications. Therefore the latest offensive was not as successful as hoped for. And cost Ukraine and Russia many extra lives. The battle is now deadlocked.

Biden didn't send the equipment asked for, and what he did send arrived too late.
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Agreed. I fully expect that Biden (the establishment), wants Russia tied up in war for as long as possible.
 
oldfisherman said:
Agree, also I believe a strong case
can be made that Biden doesn't want this war to end soon.

He brags about the $billions worth of military hardware donated to the fight. However, everything he sent, other than the few air defense systems, and the few rockets, was all older equipment marked to be scrapped soon or sold for pennies.

And I agree with your comment about the equipment arriving late. Ukraine had the Russians making a big retreat on several fronts. However, Ukraine ran out of equipment and had to stop. Biden gave the Russians 8 months to build very extensive defensive fortifications. Therefore the latest offensive was not as successful as hoped for. And cost Ukraine and Russia many extra lives. The battle is now deadlocked.

Biden didn't send the equipment asked for, and what he did send arrived too late.
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None of the Nato countries have given Ukraine their latest and greatest weapons. That would be dumb for multiple reasons, the biggest being weapons fall into the enemy's hands. There are tons of videos of Ukrainian troops taking and using Russian weapons. We're not going to give Russia access to our latest weapons. Also, even our old weapons and weapon systems require substantial training. Training Ukrainian troops to use our newest and most advanced weapons would also make any captured Ukrainian troops a security risk to our armed forces.
 
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SlyPokerDog said:
None of the Nato countries have given Ukraine their latest and greatest weapons. That would be dumb for multiple reasons, the biggest being weapons fall into the enemy's hands. There are tons of videos of Ukrainian troops taking and using Russian weapons. We're not going to give Russia access to our latest weapons. Also, even our old weapons and weapon systems require substantial training. Training Ukrainian troops to use our newest and most advanced weapons would also make any captured Ukrainian troops a security risk to our armed forces.
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Not true.

Ukraine has been begging for our longer range missles, Biden refused. England did give them their version of the long range missle called Storm Shadow.

It only took 3 Storm Shadow missles fired into Crimea to scare most of the Russian navy out of Crimea. The missles took out a submarine, another ship was damaged, and the Russian navy headquarters was destroyed.
 
oldfisherman said:
Not true.

Ukraine has been begging for our longer range missles, Biden refused. England did give them their version of the long range missle called Storm Shadow.

It only took 3 Storm Shadow missles fired into Crimea to scare most of the Russian navy out of Crimea. The missles took out a submarine, another ship was damaged, and the Russian navy headquarters was destroyed.
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Storm Shadow was developed in 1994 by Britian and France and has been in use since 2003.

It is not their latest and greatest missile system. Egypt, Greece, Italy, India, Qatar, Saudia Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates along with Britain and France all use the Storm Shadow. It is older equipment, which is what part of your complaint was.

Yes, the US will not sell Ukraine weapons that can strike deep into Russia.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Storm Shadow was developed in 1994 by Britian and France and has been in use since 2003.

It is not their latest and greatest missile system. Egypt, Greece, Italy, India, Qatar, Saudia Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates along with Britain and France all use the Storm Shadow. It is older equipment, which is what part of your complaint was.

Yes, the US will not sell Ukraine weapons that can strike deep into Russia.
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Wrong again.

Storm Shadow was upgraded in 2017 and is their best ground launched cruise missile. It has almost twice the range of our best ground launched cruise missile that Ukraine wants. It also has about a 50% larger warhead.
 
oldfisherman said:
Wrong again.

Storm Shadow was upgraded in 2017 and is their best ground launched cruise missile. It has almost twice the range of our best ground launched cruise missile that Ukraine wants. It also has about a 50% larger warhead.
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Link that that Britain gave them the 2017 version? Because they haven't given that to the other countries. And most of those have been limited to under 300km.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
You can replace fuel in missiles.
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I believe they also upgraded the engine, but not important.

Britain will not tell anyone which version they gave Ukraine. Let's assume they only gave them the 300 km version. This Storm Shadow is still a better weapon than the same 300 km range US version Ukraine wanted.

The 300 km US missile is ground launch only. The Storm Shadow given to Ukraine has been adapted to be launched from a plane. Therefore it's range can be greatly increased by the planes range. Plus it does have a larger warhead which is better for taking out hard targets.
 
oldfisherman said:
Agree, also I believe a strong case
can be made that Biden doesn't want this war to end soon.

He brags about the $billions worth of military hardware donated to the fight. However, everything he sent, other than the few air defense systems, and the few rockets, was all older equipment marked to be scrapped soon or sold for pennies.

And I agree with your comment about the equipment arriving late. Ukraine had the Russians making a big retreat on several fronts. However, Ukraine ran out of equipment and had to stop. Biden gave the Russians 8 months to build very extensive defensive fortifications. Therefore the latest offensive was not as successful as hoped for. And cost Ukraine and Russia many extra lives. The battle is now deadlocked.

Biden didn't send the equipment asked for, and what he did send arrived too late.
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A lot of people in Ukraine would agree with you (not to mention Garry Kasparov also) that Biden doesn't want Ukraine to win. Not sure why.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
A lot of people in Ukraine would agree with you (not to mention Garry Kasparov also) that Biden doesn't want Ukraine to win. Not sure why.
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Biden is giving just enough to keep Ukraine in the fight.

Beleive Phatguysrule nailed it in a prior post. Drain Russia's military strength. Sadly, at the cost of Ukrainian lives.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
A lot of people in Ukraine would agree with you (not to mention Garry Kasparov also) that Biden doesn't want Ukraine to win. Not sure why.
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I don't think Biden or the establishment wants Ukraine to lose. I think they want Russia engaged and wasting resources for as long as possible. Ukraine is unfortunately caught up in it. Receiving just enough help to stay afloat, but not enough to knock Russia out.
 
This American guy was not a soldier or participant in any way in the war. This could have very well happened to me if I had stayed in Crimea even one day longer, especially since I was active in support of Euromaidan protests. In fact my attorney emailed me two days after I had left and said police were looking for me for "questioning". Glad to see that USA is being active; they should also charge russians with any crimes against American volunteer POWs.

"Prosecutors alleged Mkrtchyan and his soldiers abducted the unnamed victim from the village of Mylove in the Kherson Oblast region in southern Ukraine in April 2022. They beat him and illegally held him in custody for 10 days, according to the Justice Department.

Officials said some of the men either led or participated in interrogation sessions and tortured the victim, at times stripping him of his clothes and photographing him and beating him.

The co-conspirators "threw [the victim] face down to the ground while he was naked, tied his hands behind his back, pointed a gun at his head, and beat him with their feet, their fists, and the stocks of their guns," prosecutors said in the nine-page indictment.

In one particularly brutal session, Garland said Budnik "threatened the victim with death and asked him for his last words." Nazar and others then took the victim outside.

"There, they forced him to the ground and put a gun to the back of his head. The victim believed he was about to be killed. They moved the gun just before pulling the trigger and the bullet went just past his head," Garland said. "After the mock execution, the victim was beaten and interrogated again."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-soldiers-charged-war-crimes-torture-ukraine/
 
Advisor to Zelensky

[URL='https://twitter.com/Podolyak_M']Михайло Подоляк
@Podolyak_M[/URL]

Any discussion among politicians in partner countries about the priority/non-priority of large-scale military assistance to #Ukraine is first and foremost a discussion about investments in their own security, in guarantees of their own stability, and in their own leadership positions on the global political market. This is a direct investment in international law and strict rules that guarantee the world a predictable future. The question of the price of investment in Ukraine is today invariably the question of the price of sovereign self-defense of any democratic country.
 
It's over guys. I tried to tell you many months ago. Think twice before believing the MSM, they lie about EVERYTHING. Especially about war.
 
beast crnjo said:
It's over guys. I tried to tell you many months ago. Think twice before believing the MSM, they lie about EVERYTHING. Especially about war.
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Its over when Ukraine decides its over. Simple as that.

Russia can not occupy Ukraine as long as Ukraine wants to keep fighting. Simple as that. That's just math.

What you say has no bearing on anything.
 
beast crnjo said:
It's over guys. I tried to tell you many months ago. Think twice before believing the MSM, they lie about EVERYTHING. Especially about war.
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4t7fhu.jpg
 
Phatguysrule said:
Its over when Ukraine decides its over. Simple as that.

Russia can not occupy Ukraine as long as Ukraine wants to keep fighting. Simple as that. That's just math.

What you say has no bearing on anything.
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That's now how it works when you lose a war.
 
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