Politics Ukraine / Russia (6 Viewers)

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UKRAINEFAN said:
Rather than watch some bullshit video I actually read the NYTimes piece. They found exactly one mentally handicapped guy who had been drafted and his lawyer got him out. There are 226 court cases involving guys they think were illegally mobilized. They are not in the army pending the resolution of those cases. And that's a big difference between russia and Ukraine. No one can report on what is happening in russia because anyone who tells the truth goes to jail. And if you get conscripted illegally, there is no legal recourse.
Just to follow up a little on the differences between the two countries. UN and human rights groups have full access to all POW camps in Ukraine, and absolutely no access to POW camps in russia. Also no access to camps where thousands of Ukrainian civilians are being held, basically as hostages.
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The number of court cases don’t represent an actual number of forced conscripts, those are just the people rich enough to pay a lawyer and ballsy enough to battle a corrupt regime in court. Part of the NYT piece outlines the economic disparity in who gets forced to fight and who doesn’t. Thanks for pointing it out further.
 
jonnyboy said:
The number of court cases don’t represent an actual number of conscripts, those are just the people rich enough to pay a lawyer and ballsy enough to fight a corrupt regime in court. Part of the NYT piece outlines the economic disparity in who gets forced to fight and who doesn’t. Thanks for pointing it out further.
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I wonder why you only point out problems with Ukraine and never with the #1 terrorist nation in the world, russia? Like how almost all of their conscripts come from the impoverished outer regions, mostly minorities? I don't get the sense that you really care about corruption or inequality.
 
jonnyboy said:
The number of court cases don’t represent an actual number of forced conscripts, those are just the people rich enough to pay a lawyer and ballsy enough to battle a corrupt regime in court. Part of the NYT piece outlines the economic disparity in who gets forced to fight and who doesn’t. Thanks for pointing it out further.
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Well, let us know when you have actual evidence of malicious intent.
 
I can't believe any of you actually still feed the troll.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
I wonder why you only point out problems with Ukraine and never with the #1 terrorist nation in the world, russia? Like how almost all of their conscripts come from the impoverished outer regions, mostly minorities? I don't get the sense that you really care about corruption or inequality.
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I care about Americans being milked for taxes to support corrupt governments and money laundering by elites. Yes Russia is corrupt, but I don’t work a job to financially support their corruption. Ukraine is a different story.
 
This highly unusual for elected officials at any level to speak out against the war. They are starting to feel their losses finally.
 
jonnyboy said:
I care about Americans being milked for taxes to support corrupt governments and money laundering by elites. Yes Russia is corrupt, but I don’t work a job to financially support their corruption. Ukraine is a different story.
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I honestly don't think you understand how military budgets work...they'll blow the money up in the desert or dump old jeeps in the ocean to get new funding. Ukraine isn't changing the amount of tax dollars you spend on our military budget. I saw the profits of war first hand and we're as guilty as any country for profiting from war or conflicts just like contractors are making bank after cities and bridges are blown up...this has literally been happening everyday of your life and mine all over the planet and it has fuck all to do with nationalism. You can however choose to not pay taxes due to objections...you just won't build retirement benefits if you do. Choices. Sure it sucks but it always has and probably always will until people collectively decide to give up the tools of war and do something better with the money.
 
riverman said:
I honestly don't think you understand how military budgets work...they'll blow the money up in the desert or dump old jeeps in the ocean to get new funding. Ukraine isn't changing the amount of tax dollars you spend on our military budget. I saw the profits of war first hand and we're as guilty as any country for profiting from war or conflicts just like contractors are making bank after cities and bridges are blown up...this has literally been happening everyday of your life and mine all over the planet and it has fuck all to do with nationalism. You can however choose to not pay taxes due to objections...you just won't build retirement benefits if you do. Choices. Sure it sucks but it always has and probably always will until people collectively decide to give up the tools of war and do something better with the money.
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I don’t find anything factually wrong with your statements here. I do find it awful though how many people happily accept the facts you laid out as status quo, however. I don’t think holding people’s retirement or livelihood hostage to fund corruption is ok just because “that’s how it works.” Companies like Blackrock who are robbing younger generations of a future here at home are the same ones being contracted to rebuild Ukraine. Nobody has the balls to put two and two together. It’s the same rinse and repeat laundering schemes we see every time. Ukraine is a greatest hits album by the war profiteering elite.
 
jonnyboy said:
I don’t find anything factually wrong with your statements here. I do find it awful though how many people happily accept the facts you laid out as status quo, however. I don’t think holding people’s retirement or livelihood hostage to fund corruption is ok just because “that’s how it works.” Companies like Blackrock who are robbing younger generations of a future here at home are the same ones being contracted to rebuild Ukraine. Nobody has the balls to put two and two together. It’s the same rinse and repeat laundering schemes we see every time. Ukraine is a greatest hits album by the war profiteering elite.
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All that said, helping fund Ukraine's self defense against Russia imperialism is a smart move. Russia can't be allowed to continue doing that. It MUST be extremely expensive and as painful as possible for Russia (or any other country) to engage in empire building.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I said war sucks. Russia should probably stop making war on their neighbors.

I don't think Ukraine is deliberately targeting handicapped people.

War sucks. Again, Russia should stop making war.
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Did you know that Ukraine has been bombing that region since 2014?
 
beast crnjo said:
It's because the Eastern part of Ukraine is culturally Russian and voted for the president which was ousted in the western backed coup in 2014. That part of the country voted for him 90%.
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Then they can move to Russia. It's not like it's a long way away.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Then they can move to Russia. It's not like it's a long way away.
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Lol between this thread and the Trump one, I think I’ve got you figured out…

“They wanna vote for who?”
“Fuck them, I’ll decide”
 
Phatguysrule said:
It's kind of sad that you need to disparage people who have a different opinion than you.
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Boo hoo man. I take it from all sides here in this leftist think tank and don’t cry about it ever. Be happy you’re in good company. Also, that was hardly disparaging.
 
jonnyboy said:
Boo hoo man. I take it from all sides here in this leftist think tank and don’t cry about it ever. Be happy you’re in good company. Also, that was hardly disparaging.
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Oh, I think you misunderstood me. I'm not sad, it's just a pitiful tactic that you seem to turn to once all of your propaganda has been deflected.

Either buy the propaganda you're pushing or they are *insert label*.

It's just unfortunate, that's all.
 
Ukraine knocked out three russian fighter/bombers today with a Patriot missile system they just got from Germany. Japan is also sending several Patriot systems to USA which will allow USA to send more to Ukraine. russia has been firing glide bombs from these planes at Ukrainian troops and it was somewhat effective. Now they will be driven back so far that even if they can still fire these bombs they will be even less accurate than they already were. Other good news, Ukraine might have 18 F-16's from Netherlands within the next ten days. This should also push the russian planes back further. Below is wreckage of one of the planes shot down.


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GB-wcZAXAAArk4C
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Ukraine knocked out three russian fighter/bombers today with a Patriot missile system they just got from Germany. Japan is also sending several Patriot systems to USA which will allow USA to send more to Ukraine. russia has been firing glide bombs from these planes at Ukrainian troops and it was somewhat effective. Now they will be driven back so far that even if they can still fire these bombs they will be even less accurate than they already were. Other good news, Ukraine might have 18 F-16's from Netherlands within the next ten days. This should also push the russian planes back further. Below is wreckage of one of the planes shot down.


.
GB-wcZAXAAArk4C
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With the ground war at a stalemate. And Russian attack aircraft getting pushed further from the front. Russia has been working on the next layer of problems.

It hurts to report this, but Russia has found a way to aquire banned parts. They have greatly increased their production of the dose iskander missile system. And have made improvements to their missile attack strategy.

The video below explains the problems this is already causing. Ukraine is going to need more Patriot systems and more F16s to defend themselves.

 
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I want to expand on how serious the Russian missile threat has become.

While we often compare the Russian military to the keystone cops, with good reason. Their missile units have very advanced weapons, and use very professional strategies, which they continue to improve

Several weeks ago, I watched a detailed report on the strategy the Russians used to make a successful missile attack on an Ukrainian high value target. It used a map to show the route of each missile. I am not sure if this was the same attack talked about in the above video. So much info is kept secret by Ukraine.

What the map report showed was the route of about 10 missiles fired. The first missiles were decoys to show the location of the Ukrainian air defense sites. This allowed the next batch of missiles to be programed to takes evassive routes out of reach of the limited defensive missile sites.

In other words, the Russians are now using similiar tactics that the Ukrainians have successfully used to attack targets in Crimea, but launched from a longer range distance.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
Oh, I think you misunderstood me. I'm not sad, it's just a pitiful tactic that you seem to turn to once all of your propaganda has been deflected.

Either buy the propaganda you're pushing or they are *insert label*.

It's just unfortunate, that's all.
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Deflection is actually a good way to put it, couldn’t have said it better myself. As hard as I try to get my point across I find it interesting you simply accuse me of name calling, which I haven’t done. Seems like you are the one who wants to skirt around the conversation, not me. It’s unfortunate someone disagrees with you? Welcome to the world bud.
 
oldfisherman said:
With the ground war at a stalemate. And Russian attack aircraft getting pushed further from the front. Russia has been working on the next layer of problems.

It hurts to report this, but Russia has found a way to aquire banned parts. They have greatly increased their production of the dose iskander missile system. And have made improvements to their missile attack strategy.

The video below explains the problems this is already causing. Ukraine is going to need more Patriot systems and more F16s to defend themselves.

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Yes. Missiles are a definite problem. Although I have seen reports that about 90% get intercepted and Ukraine is getting more air defense all the time. You are right, that Ukraine keeps a lot of military casualty information secret. so it's difficult to know how much damage russia is doing to Ukrainian military with missiles. The main reported damage to military seems to come from the glide bombs.
I didn't finish that video but he seems to be kind of vague about exactly what target was hit and what damage was done. He talks about a second hit while clearing rubble, which I would think would be more likely to be present where there is a civilian target. I don't think that Ukrainian military assembles in buildings anymore after some early war disasters. And BTW, those disasters were reported.
I admittedly read almost all pro-Ukrainian sources and from reading them it appears that russia uses it's missiles almost exclusively on civilian targets, both residences and energy infrastructure.. I know they do strike military airfields at times, but have not seen much confirmed damage to Ukrainian planes. And Ukraine seems to be launching about the same number of strikes from their planes now as they did in the beginning of the war. Is there any verified information that this is not true?
Usually when Ukrainians hit an important military target, there is then confirmation with photos, video and satellite images. They tell exactly what they hit. Is there russian information out there that is similar about Ukrainian targets?
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Yes. Missiles are a definite problem. Although I have seen reports that about 90% get intercepted and Ukraine is getting more air defense all the time. You are right, that Ukraine keeps a lot of military casualty information secret. so it's difficult to know how much damage russia is doing to Ukrainian military with missiles. The main reported damage to military seems to come from the glide bombs.
I didn't finish that video but he seems to be kind of vague about exactly what target was hit and what damage was done. He talks about a second hit while clearing rubble, which I would think would be more likely to be present where there is a civilian target. I don't think that Ukrainian military assembles in buildings anymore after some early war disasters. And BTW, those disasters were reported.
I admittedly read almost all pro-Ukrainian sources and from reading them it appears that russia uses it's missiles almost exclusively on civilian targets, both residences and energy infrastructure.. I know they do strike military airfields at times, but have not seen much confirmed damage to Ukrainian planes. And Ukraine seems to be launching about the same number of strikes from their planes now as they did in the beginning of the war. Is there any verified information that this is not true?
Usually when Ukrainians hit an important military target, there is then confirmation with photos, video and satellite images. They tell exactly what they hit. Is there russian information out there that is similar about Ukrainian targets?
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As far as the target. My guess is the attack did happen within a developed city area. However, there were "hints" in both reports the target was a high level military HQ. If it was a civilian target that was hit. Ukraine would have used it for propaganda reports. Instead they are keeping the details of this attack secret. Plus the Russians went to a lot of trouble and exspense to hit this target.

You are correct, up untill now, most missiles have been shot down. My point was, Russia has developed strategies to beat the air defenses now in place, when they want to. Plus now the Russians are using their latest high tech missiles just manufactured, not 30 year old models.

If you have time, watch the entire video. The end is were they talk about missiles numbers being produced.

This chess match between Ukraine and Russia has moved to the skys.
 
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I agree that Ukraine vastly underestimated russia's ability to produce new missiles and I believe russia is saving missiles for massive attacks on energy infrastructure in Ukraine this winter. I believe that, just like human wave assaults, that this emphasis on attacking civilian targets, apparently in an effort to demoralize Ukrainians, will fail.
I would also like to note that Ukraine is also building their own long range missiles now and also building several varieties of large drones. I will post a link to one, which is jetpowered; that may help it overcome the main fault of drones, their slow speed. It seems to have failed in one of it's first missions, but I am confident Ukraine will adjust.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...ed-uj-25-skyline-drone-appears-on-battlefield
 
jonnyboy said:
Deflection is actually a good way to put it, couldn’t have said it better myself. As hard as I try to get my point across I find it interesting you simply accuse me of name calling, which I haven’t done. Seems like you are the one who wants to skirt around the conversation, not me. It’s unfortunate someone disagrees with you? Welcome to the world bud.
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I have absolutely no problem with you disagreeing. And I didn't say anything about name calling.

Trump should absolutely be in jail as a traitor and ineligible to be listed on any ballot or hold any public office in America.

And we should absolutely support Ukraine and any other country defend themselves from invasion by aggressive empires.
 
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