Politics Ukraine / Russia (3 Viewers)

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beast crnjo said:
How many bombs do you think Russia has dropped on foreign nations vs the US since then? Russia already has massive amounts of land. They idea that they want to take over Europe is absolutely ridiculous. It's Europe that's invaded Russia multiple times, not vice versa.

You're lapping up absolute hogwash meant to deceive people into supporting the conflict. Wisen up.
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SlyPokerDog said:
Let's see... countries that are militarily strong enough to invade Russia.

1. USA
2. China

Neither of them has any interest in this.

And even if the US and China wanted to invade, Russia's nuclear capabilities make this a very bad idea.
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That's true. But Russia has been invaded many times in history. They believe they need to control these passes to have security.

And a part of their identity is that they support and respect machismo and strong men.

So Russian leaders use these to control their population. And since these ideas are a part of their cultural identity the people support it.

At least, that's my impression.

If Russia takes Ukraine they will hit Poland and Romania. It's the only logical conclusion or they wouldn't be invading Ukraine.
 
beast crnjo said:
How many bombs do you think Russia has dropped on foreign nations vs the US since then? Russia already has massive amounts of land. They idea that they want to take over Europe is absolutely ridiculous. It's Europe that's invaded Russia multiple times, not vice versa.

You're lapping up absolute hogwash meant to deceive people into supporting the conflict. Wisen up.
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I don't think they want to take over Europe. I'm not sure where you got that from.

They do want to reclaim former USSR territory.


Putin compares himself to Peter the Great in quest to take back Russian lands
“Peter the Great waged the great northern war for 21 years. It would seem that he was at war with Sweden, he took something from them. He did not take anything from them, he returned [what was Russia’s],” the Russian president said on Thursday after a visiting an exhibition dedicated to the tsar.
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beast crnjo said:
What happened to Iraq when we created a power vaccum?
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You know that Putin is going to die someday, right? You might think he's a god, but he's not actually immortal.

One way or another, Russia will face that 'power vacuum' that his death or exile or imprisonment or incapacity will create.

I think Russia has different internal dynamics than Iraq, so their response to regime change might be different.

barfo
 
beast crnjo said:
There's no evidence that Russia is interested in expanding into Europe, it's nonsense. And you don't think the memory of the invasions of the 20th century still resonate there? That wasn't that long ago, do you know how many millions of them died? We in the US have no concept of what that is like. And it's NATO that has been expanding into their territory, it's the US/NATO expanding towards their border. It's the US that has openly stated they want to overthrow Putin. So if anyone is concerned about empire building, it should be the Russians.

You want to see everything through the lens of "MAGA", that's another psyop.

People need to wisen up.
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Peter Zeihan || The Ukraine War Is Just Getting StartedYouTube · Zeihan on Geopolitics6 minutes, 23 secondsFeb 9, 2023
 
barfo said:
You know that Putin is going to die someday, right? You might think he's a god, but he's not actually immortal.

One way or another, Russia will face that 'power vacuum' that his death or exile or imprisonment or incapacity will create.

I think Russia has different internal dynamics than Iraq, so their response to regime change might be different.

barfo
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The Russians have elections like we do, someone being voted into power vs destroying and destabalizing the leadership of a government are two different things. What do you imagine killing Putin would accomplish?
 
Phatguysrule said:
I don't think they want to take over Europe. I'm not sure where you got that from.

They do want to reclaim former USSR territory.


Putin compares himself to Peter the Great in quest to take back Russian lands
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He's flat out said he does not want to do that. Biden has threatened that if we don't stop Russia, in Eastern Ukraine, we'll have to fight them in eastern europe. In Poland for example, which is part of NATO and was never part of the USSR.

Putin doesn't want an all out war with NATO.
 
beast crnjo said:
The Russians have elections like we do, someone being voted into power vs destroying and destabalizing the leadership of a government are two different things. What do you imagine killing Putin would accomplish?
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Uh, Russian elections are rigged so that Putin wins every time. Which is exactly what Trump and his minority minions are stumbling over big time to try and achieve in America. And before you promote the Big Lie, as far as I am concerned, ANYONE who believes Trump won in 2020 is waaayyyyy too stupid to live. That you would cite Russia as having “elections” just underlines your general ignorance. You’re the one who needs to “wake up” Comrade.
 
beast crnjo said:
He's flat out said he does not want to do that. Biden has threatened that if we don't stop Russia, in Eastern Ukraine, we'll have to fight them in eastern europe. In Poland for example, which is part of NATO and was never part of the USSR.

Putin doesn't want an all out war with NATO.
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No, Putin doesn't want an all out war with NATO. And NATO doesn't want an all out war with Russia. That's why it's important for NATO to support Ukraine so Russia understands that they can't keep pushing the boundaries.

Russia just wants to take what they want. There are things that are not in our interest to let them have. Like Ukraine, who we swore to defend when they agreed to disarm.
 
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UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
Uh, Russian elections are rigged so that Putin wins every time. Which is exactly what Trump and his minority minions are stumbling over big time to try and achieve in America. And before you promote the Big Lie, as far as I am concerned, ANYONE who believes Trump won in 2020 is waaayyyyy too stupid to live. That you would cite Russia as having “elections” just underlines your general ignorance. You’re the one who needs to “wake up” Comrade.
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Don't you understand, Russian elections are so fair and wonderful that Putin just wants Ukraine the pleasure of voting in them.
 
beast crnjo said:
The Russians have elections like we do, someone being voted into power vs destroying and destabalizing the leadership of a government are two different things. What do you imagine killing Putin would accomplish?
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Killing Putin would likely result in Russia breaking up further into smaller pieces. There is nobody left to keep it together. Putin has killed or run off anybody else capable.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Killing Putin would likely result in Russia breaking up further into smaller pieces. There is nobody left to keep it together. Putin has killed or run off anybody else capable.
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I doubt that. Russia is a big country, there are many people both good and bad who are capable of keeping Russia together.
 
I love these useful idiots in this thread who think they’re so smart, when in fact they’re just being used. It’s really sad actually to see people getting used like this, shows how weak these members are. I miss the old school cold warrior tough republicans.
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
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Seriously doubt it. They've had an incredible brain drain and don't have enough young people to care for their old. And that problem is only getting worse.

Roughly 1/4 of the population has TB or HIV. 20% of the population doesn't even have indoor plumbing.

Russia is going down in a big way, regardless of the outcome of this war.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Seriously doubt it. They've had an incredible brain drain and don't have enough young people to care for their old. And that problem is only getting worse.

Roughly 1/4 of the population has TB or HIV. 20% of the population doesn't even have indoor plumbing.

Russia is going down in a big way, regardless of the outcome of this war.
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I was searching for that video I watched a year or two about how their educational system has been decimated as well as their work force knowledge, among other things, but couldn't find it. I did find the two videos I posted, watched them and found them interesting enough to share in this thread.
 
beast crnjo said:
The Russians have elections like we do, someone being voted into power vs destroying and destabalizing the leadership of a government are two different things. What do you imagine killing Putin would accomplish?
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Well, you can't have it both ways. Either they have a functioning 'democracy', with elections and a succession order, or they don't and will be thrown into a chaotic power vacuum like Iraq after Saddam. Which is it?

We've had multiple presidents assassinated, hasn't turned the US into Iraq. Because our system assumes our presidents aren't President-for-Life.

barfo
 
HailBlazers said:
Thoughts?

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He’s spitting facts and the people here who tiptoe around facts HATE it. You’ll see them personally attack Kennedy, but they will not address anything he said at face value because it’s irrefutable.
 
jonnyboy said:
He’s spitting facts and the people here who tiptoe around facts HATE it. You’ll see them personally attack Kennedy, but they will not address anything he said at face value because it’s irrefutable.
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Sorry. I don't think Russia should be able to choose if Ukraine has dealings with NATO or if Ukraine joins NATO.

Ukraine is not in NATO, but Russia has been aggressive to Ukraine for years.

Russia invaded Ukraine. The war would end tomorrow if Russia went home.

Yes, the war is unnecessary. Yes, Russia can stop invading it's neighbor at any time. Yes, Russia should absolutely do this.

But Ukraine is right to defend themselves and I applaud their efforts and I hope the US continues to fund their self defense efforts until Russia withdraws.

And yes. Kennedy is an idiot (or possibly a shyster), and I would never support him.
 
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HailBlazers said:
Thoughts?

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Robert Jr. and I are the same age/generation. Vietnam made started making all this clear. Not to be flip, but it's old news. Defense spending is the biggest scam of all time. And our so called leaders are not really the ones pulling the strings. I can't see it changing any time soon, regardless of who is in the White House.
 
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