Politics Ukraine / Russia (1 Viewer)

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beast crnjo said:
Wow, now you're going to pretend that never happened? You can time travel back to this thread and see how most of you thought Ukraine was winning.

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I guess it depends on your definition of winning. I don't remember anybody in here saying it. There are definitely more Russian soldiers dying than Ukrainian soldiers. At current average rates Russia would run out of people before Ukraine.

Is that winning? Not sure. They probably won't feel like they are winning until Russia is leaving.
 
My guess.

The west will continue to match Russia's moves. Creating a situation where neither side wins.

If and when this war ends. One side will lose. The other side will lose less.
 
This is rather unfortunate. russia had a lot of planes parked only 100 miles from the border and Ukraine couldn't get permission to hit with USA missiles. Now russia has moved the planes out of reach of ATACMs. The best chance Ukraine has now is to develop their own accurate long range rockets and they are definitely working on it.
They only got 10 F-16's; will probably only be used to shoot down drones and missiles at this point so won't have much effect on the war. As Garry Kasparov says, the policy of the West avoiding escalation in the short term ignores that this will result in long term excalation if russia wins the war.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davida...the-white-house-said-no-and-now-its-too-late/
 
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We also know now that USA, early in the war, forbade Ukraine to invade russia. Ukraine has to resort to sending free russain forces, which BTW they are doing again today in Kursk region. Also, after russian MOD called Austin on the phone, USA asked Ukraine not to interrupt russia's navy days celebration. USA policy is just insane and defeatist.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
We also know now that USA, early in the war, forbade Ukraine to invade russia. Ukraine has to resort to sending free russain forces, which BTW they are doing again today in Kursk region. Also, after russian MOD called Austin on the phone, USA asked Ukraine not to interrupt russia's navy days celebration. USA policy is just insane and defeatist.
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Frustrating
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
We also know now that USA, early in the war, forbade Ukraine to invade russia. Ukraine has to resort to sending free russain forces, which BTW they are doing again today in Kursk region. Also, after russian MOD called Austin on the phone, USA asked Ukraine not to interrupt russia's navy days celebration. USA policy is just insane and defeatist.
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Beggars can’t be choosers.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
We also know now that USA, early in the war, forbade Ukraine to invade russia. Ukraine has to resort to sending free russain forces, which BTW they are doing again today in Kursk region. Also, after russian MOD called Austin on the phone, USA asked Ukraine not to interrupt russia's navy days celebration. USA policy is just insane and defeatist.
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History shows that Empires fall because they got their asses whipped by another Army, usually. The only way to deal with Putin is to soundly defeat him by any means necessary. Or Putin will use any means necessary to defeat Ukraine. Then what?
 
Hoopguru said:
History shows that Empires fall because they got their asses whipped by another Army, usually. The only way to deal with Putin is to soundly defeat him by any means necessary. Or Putin will use any means necessary to defeat Ukraine. Then what?
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History actually shows that empires fall from within. This entire puppet show is an example of our own empire crumbling, not another.
 
jonnyboy said:
History actually shows that empires fall from within. This entire puppet show is an example of our own empire crumbling, not another.
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There has never been an empire with the advantages we have.

No country or empire has ever had access to the resources we have. No country or empire has ever had access to the cheap transportation that we have. No country or empire has ever had the ability to print their own money as we do.

In order for the US to fail we'll have to shoot ourselves in the head. We'll have to deliberately destroy ourselves. And then we'll still have every advantage over every other country in the world.

We have vastly more navigable waterway than the rest of the world combined. There is no more efficient way to transfer goods anywhere in the world.

We have friendly neighbors to our north and south. We have more fresh water than any country in the world, except our good friends to the north.

We literally can't screw this up. All we have to do is wake up every morning and not shoot ourselves in the head.

That, or Yellowstone blows.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
There has never been an empire with the advantages we have.

No country or empire has ever had access to the resources we have. No country or empire has ever had access to the cheap transportation that we have. No country or empire has ever had the ability to print their own money as we do.

In order for the US to fail we'll have to shoot ourselves in the head. We'll have to deliberately destroy ourselves. And then we'll still have every advantage over every other country in the world.

We have vastly more navigable waterway as the rest of the world combined. There is no more efficient way to transfer goods anywhere in the world.

We have friendly neighbors to our north and south. We have more fresh water than any country in the world, except our good friends to the north.

We literally can't screw this up. All we have to do is wake up every morning and not shoot ourselves in the head.

That, or Yellowstone blows.
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We exhibit every hallmark of a society in it’s late stages. Spread too far, extreme infighting and public dissent, complete mistrust of leaders and institutions not only by its own citizens but by our international peers, rampant corruption beyond what the average mind can fathom, struggling economy and runaway inflation and a military that is used not as defense, but a goon squad for special interests, to name a few. The rejection of the US dollar/petrodollar, which is currently underway, will mark the end of American hegemony.
 
jonnyboy said:
History actually shows that empires fall from within. This entire puppet show is an example of our own empire crumbling, not another.
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Sure, empires that have internal issues become weak, but check out what armies conquered Rome, Persia, Germany, Japan etc.
 
jonnyboy said:
We exhibit every hallmark of a society in it’s late stages. Spread too far, extreme infighting and public dissent, complete mistrust of leaders and institutions not only by its own citizens but by our international peers, rampant corruption beyond what the average mind can fathom, struggling economy and runaway inflation and a military that is used not as defense, but a goon squad for special interests, to name a few. The rejection of the US dollar/petrodollar, which is currently underway, will mark the end of American hegemony.
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And even with all that, people from all over want to come here.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
We also know now that USA, early in the war, forbade Ukraine to invade russia. Ukraine has to resort to sending free russain forces, which BTW they are doing again today in Kursk region.

.
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Not 100% clear what is happening with the free russian forces invading russia, but.

There are many unconfirmed reports the regular Ukraine military have joined in this invasion. It is believed they have gone 3 miles into russia, and may still be advancing towards a target. Possibly a supply and fuel center.

Even if this is only a temporary invasion. It will force russia to move troops, reducing the pressure off of front line Ukraine troops.
 
Phatguysrule said:
There has never been an empire with the advantages we have.

No country or empire has ever had access to the resources we have. No country or empire has ever had access to the cheap transportation that we have. No country or empire has ever had the ability to print their own money as we do.

In order for the US to fail we'll have to shoot ourselves in the head. We'll have to deliberately destroy ourselves. And then we'll still have every advantage over every other country in the world.

We have vastly more navigable waterway than the rest of the world combined. There is no more efficient way to transfer goods anywhere in the world.

We have friendly neighbors to our north and south. We have more fresh water than any country in the world, except our good friends to the north.

We literally can't screw this up. All we have to do is wake up every morning and not shoot ourselves in the head.

That, or Yellowstone blows.
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I disagree. Rome had more advantages than we have.
 
oldfisherman said:
Not 100% clear what is happening with the free russian forces invading russia, but.

There are many unconfirmed reports the regular Ukraine military have joined in this invasion. It is believed they have gone 3 miles into russia, and may still be advancing towards a target. Possibly a supply and fuel center.

Even if this is only a temporary invasion. It will force russia to move troops, reducing the pressure off of front line Ukraine troops.
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You're right. This time it's all Ukrainian troops. Supposedly have captured 300 russian soldiers. It's kind of controversial move as some think they need these troops n the center Donetsk area where they are losing ground.
 
Russia and Crimea are getting lit up tonight

This war may have changed quite a bit in the last three days
 
Phatguysrule said:
I guess it depends on your definition of winning. I don't remember anybody in here saying it. There are definitely more Russian soldiers dying than Ukrainian soldiers. At current average rates Russia would run out of people before Ukraine.

Is that winning? Not sure. They probably won't feel like they are winning until Russia is leaving.
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"definitely" based on what data? What even indicates that is the case? Russia is dug into a defensive position and Ukraine's military is dying it's last breaths...

It's only a matter of time. Mark my words. You'll see that I've been right all this time, and that you've been listening to shit.
 
beast crnjo said:
"definitely" based on what data? What even indicates that is the case? Russia is dug into a defensive position and Ukraine's military is dying it's last breaths...

It's only a matter of time. Mark my words. You'll see that I've been right all this time, and that you've been listening to shit.
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I don't care about being right. I care about doing right.

Ukraine is doing the right thing. Russia is doing the wrong thing.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I don't care about being right. I care about doing right.

Ukraine is doing the right thing. Russia is doing the wrong thing.
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Right at this point is stopping the bloodshed. Russia's not innocent, but the US and NATO have only fostered the conflict. We're using the Ukranians as cannon fodder. We've only said we don't want to negotiate, the only acceptable end result is defeat of Russia and Putin. That goal is literally impossible. It's insane.
 
beast crnjo said:
Right at this point is stopping the bloodshed. Russia's not innocent, but the US and NATO have only fostered the conflict. We're using the Ukranians as cannon fodder. We've only said we don't want to negotiate, the only acceptable end result is defeat of Russia and Putin. That goal is literally impossible. It's insane.
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No. Right, right now, is stopping Russia from attacking Ukraine. Or ar least helping Ukraine defend themselves.

Wrong would be refusing to help Ukraine defend themselves.

Wrong is advocating that Ukraine not defend themselves.
 
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Nato eventually gets into this war to deal with Putin,
SlyPokerDog said:
This Ukrainian push into Russia makes me very nervous. Reminds me of Napoleon's and Hitler's armies invading Russia and then failing.
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Me too, as I think it's NATO's way of inch by inch getting after Putin. They know Putin is in this for the long haul. The only hope is that he comes to the table an agrees to a settlement and end of the war or he's got to be dealt with.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
This Ukrainian push into Russia makes me very nervous. Reminds me of Napoleon's and Hitler's armies invading Russia and then failing.
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People’s brains get so caught up in this technological world of drones and cheerleading from afar over social media to the point where they think logistics don’t matter, or they simply don’t understand them. Logistics matter. Russia is fucking huge and there are millions of people there. Nobody is simply marching in to take shit over, just like they couldn’t here, or China for example. You are talking military accomplishments that would take decades or longer even for another superpower. Ukraine is practically third-world and nowhere near a worthy adversary for a superpower. This whole idea would be laughable if it wasn’t so destructive and psychotic.
 
The way this war has been fought, one thing is very clear. Once one side or the other takes control of land, and sets up a defense. It becomes very costly for the other side to take that land back. The Ukraine troops invading russia are very well trained, armed, supplied, and supported. This is not a short term raid. This appears to be take land and hold it operation.

Why? Only a few people in Ukraine know the plan, and they are silent.

My wild guess. Ukraine is setting up for future peace negotiations. Give us back our land, and we will return yours.
 
oldfisherman said:
My wild guess. Ukraine is setting up for future peace negotiations. Give us back our land, and we will return yours
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Give us back our entire eastern region and all of Crimea and we’ll give you back your 4 acres.
Deal of the century.
Ukraine has nothing to bring to the table. Putin making a peace deal is charity at this point.
 
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