Union Voting Machines May Be Committing Fraud

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
Voting fraud sure isn't a left monopoly.
 
I have kind of an out-there hypothesis. I'm still refining it, but it seems as if there is a subset of people (I won't label them "D's" or "Liberals" or anything) who want to change society into their socially "progressive" utopia. Couple this with an almost universal bent towards Machiavellian consequentialism, adapted to what they individually feel would be "best for the most". However, since the progressive utopia they espouse isn't founded for an altruistic good, and oftentimes for a "Fringe" cause that most in society don't agree with (because as the "most" they don't feel it's the best), they fall back on "ends justify the means" to get their utopian agenda through.

Much of society, however, falls (for whatever reason, whether it's a militaristic historical background or religious values or whatever) into a disciplined deontological philosophy of "don't do bad things just because there might be consequences you don't like--don't do bad things because they're bad." We've had the discussion here on the boards about this. Because these people feel that there is a duty to do the right thing, no matter what the consequences, you get a situation much like that in Spaceballs. Dark Helmet makes a truce with LoneStar, reneges, and then tells him "Evil will always triumph because good is dumb".
 
I have a not-so-out there hypothesis: losers whine that the game was rigged.

Since the R's were losers last time out, they are making accusations of voter fraud.
Since the D's will be losers this time, expect a bunch of accusations of voter fraud from the D side over the next couple of years.

Most of these cases of "voter fraud" don't amount to much - either unsupported allegations (such as the fox news report) or minor, localized problems (like paying voter registration workers improperly). And I doubt the ones the Democrats will allege will amount to much either.

It's really just a tool to rally the base, and judging from the responses here, it works just fine.

barfo
 
barfo said:
I have a not-so-out there hypothesis: losers whine that the game was rigged.

Since the R's were losers last time out, they are making accusations of voter fraud.
Since the D's will be losers this time, expect a bunch of accusations of voter fraud from the D side over the next couple of years.

Most of these cases of "voter fraud" don't amount to much - either unsupported allegations (such as the fox news report) or minor, localized problems (like paying voter registration workers improperly). And I doubt the ones the Democrats will allege will amount to much either.

It's really just a tool to rally the base, and judging from the responses here, it works just fine.

barfo
Click to expand...

If I would have been alive and of voting age in 1960, I would have voted for Kennedy over Nixon. However, I don't think there's any question by historians that both West Virginia and Illinois were carried for JFK through voter fraud.

It's not whining when voter fraud is pointed out. It doesn't matter that it may only be a few percentage points. "One citizen, one vote" is a critical component of our democratic process. People who commit voter fraud should face serious prison time, because it's akin to treason.

BTW, can you point to where the Democrat base is being rallied by stories of Republican voter fraud? I wish it were two-sided, because than each side would have an incentive to stop it. However, it seems to be falling only on one side of the ballot.
 
maxiep said:
If I would have been alive and of voting age in 1960, I would have voted for Kennedy over Nixon. However, I don't think there's any question by historians that both West Virginia and Illinois were carried for JFK through voter fraud.
Click to expand...

And that was only 50 years ago!

It's not whining when voter fraud is pointed out.
Click to expand...

No, of course not. And any actual violations should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

It is whining to allege voter fraud where you have no credible evidence, and to imply that the problem is far more widespread than it actually is.

BTW, can you point to where the Democrat base is being rallied by stories of Republican voter fraud? I wish it were two-sided, because than each side would have an incentive to stop it. However, it seems to be falling only on one side of the ballot.
Click to expand...

Like I said, it happens after losing.

barfo
 
barfo said:
And that was only 50 years ago!
Click to expand...

Cheating is cheating. What difference does time make?

barfo said:
No, of course not. And any actual violations should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
Click to expand...

My point is, I think the law should be tougher. In my mind, voting fraud is akin to treason--trying to overthrow the government--and should be punished close to that level (not death, but 10-25 years in prison). The consequences have to be so harsh as to deter even attempting it.

barfo said:
It is whining to allege voter fraud where you have no credible evidence, and to imply that the problem is far more widespread than it actually is.
Click to expand...

The problem with this argument is that in these instances there does appear to be credible evidence. How widespread it is remains to be seen, but vigilance when it comes to ballot box honesty is never a bad thing.

barfo said:
Like I said, it happens after losing.

barfo
Click to expand...

The elections haven't yet happened, and it looks like the other side is going to win more of the elections this year.
 
maxiep said:
Cheating is cheating. What difference does time make?
Click to expand...

Relevance to today. It's like claiming that Christians are bloodthirsty and using the crusades as the evidence.

My point is, I think the law should be tougher. In my mind, voting fraud is akin to treason--trying to overthrow the government--and should be punished close to that level (not death, but 10-25 years in prison). The consequences have to be so harsh as to deter even attempting it.
Click to expand...

I could go along with that.

The problem with this argument is that in these instances there does appear to be credible evidence. How widespread it is remains to be seen, but vigilance when it comes to ballot box honesty is never a bad thing.
Click to expand...

I frankly didn't read them all, but the two I did read didn't seem very credible. Some voters told the press about problems, but they hadn't reported it to election officials at the time. And the other one I read was something about paying someone per signature for voter registrations. That might be against the rules, but it isn't necessarily evidence of fraud.

barfo
 
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/loca...ons_of_absentee-voter_fraud_by_Democrats.html

There seems to be a pattern to flood county offices with absentee ballots and new voter registrations around the country where races are tight. There are too many of them to be called isloated incidents. When you factor in that several states couldn't get ballots to members of the military serving outside the state, the pattern takes on even more shape.
 
barfo said:
I have a not-so-out there hypothesis: right wingers whine when the game was rigged by the left wing.

Since the R's were losers last time out, they are making accusations of voter fraud.
Since the D's will be losers this time, expect a bunch of accusations of voter fraud from the D side over the next couple of years.

Most of these cases of "voter fraud" don't amount to much - either unsupported allegations (such as the fox news report) or minor, localized problems (like paying voter registration workers improperly). And I doubt the ones the Democrats will allege will amount to much either.

It's really just a tool to rally the base, and judging from the responses here, it works just fine.

barfo
Click to expand...

Fixed.
 
maxiep said:
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/loca...ons_of_absentee-voter_fraud_by_Democrats.html

There seems to be a pattern to flood county offices with absentee ballots and new voter registrations around the country where races are tight. There are too many of them to be called isloated incidents. When you factor in that several states couldn't get ballots to members of the military serving outside the state, the pattern takes on even more shape.
Click to expand...

That looks like more he-said, she-said stuff. Get back to me when you have actual evidence of fraud, rather than "allegations".

barfo
 
Voter fraud is serious stuff... but you see that when the so-called cases are investigated... almost no issues are discovered. It is just popular these days to believe in conspiracy theories and blame things like that when you don't get the results you want.

If you want to provide links... provide links of cases that were investigated and someone was convicted of voter fraud.

My favorite comic on conspiracy theories
 
barfo said:
That looks like more he-said, she-said stuff. Get back to me when you have actual evidence of fraud, rather than "allegations".

barfo
Click to expand...

That one was an allegation, and I didn't intend it as a specific accusation, but as further pattern confirmation. One would assume if these were happenstance there would be balance to the instances of fraud, but they seem to only go one way. Look to the above links I provided if you wish to see more than "he-said, she-said". Do do deny this tape of a union official receiving voting machines is fake or there wasn't an intent to commit voter fraud?

http://biggovernment.com/jokeefe/20...cial-caught-on-tape-discussing-voter-fraud-2/
 
maxiep said:
That one was an allegation, and I didn't intend it as a specific accusation, but as further pattern confirmation. One would assume if these were happenstance there would be balance to the instances of fraud, but they seem to only go one way. Look to the above links I provided if you wish to see more than "he-said, she-said". Do do deny this tape of a union official receiving voting machines is fake or there wasn't an intent to commit voter fraud?

http://biggovernment.com/jokeefe/20...cial-caught-on-tape-discussing-voter-fraud-2/
Click to expand...

Man, that's weak sauce. So one guy claims, without any other evidence, that voting machines were taken to the NJEA. The story doesn't even make sense - why bring them to someplace like NJEA if, as was alleged, the machines had already been "fixed" somewhere else? Why take them to there, and then take them away, without anyone touching them? Doesn't make any sense. And how does he know that "those two machines carried the district", if nobody (including, presumably, him) touched them while they were there? It would seem he would have no knowledge, other than what was supposedly conveyed by the wink of the delivery guy, about what was on them.

It's bullshit, pure and simple. I saw a republican staffer drop off 12,000 forged ballots at the Hoyt Street Post Office last night. You believe me, right? Because my story is backed up by every bit as much evidence as his.

barfo
 
Do you think it was some conspiracy theory that a Democratic operative was caught with a voting machine and a stack of blank ballots in the trunk of his car during the 2000 recount?
 
[video=youtube;2NuLVvVb4oc]
 
Denny Crane said:
Do you think it was some conspiracy theory that a Democratic operative was caught with a voting machine and a stack of blank ballots in the trunk of his car during the 2000 recount?
Click to expand...

If there is evidence that that happened (I don't remember the incident but I'm sure you'll provide a link), then I believe it.
I do believe that voter fraud occasionally happens. That doesn't make every allegation true, especially when people have a political motivation to make false allegations.
I'll accept anything that's actually documented, where there is actual evidence. I won't accept bullshit stories of "somebody says". People say all sorts of shit that isn't true, and people who believe it because it fits their prejudices are even more numerous.

barfo
 
[video=youtube;gkUKOSnv2zY]
 
Denny Crane said:
[video=youtube;gkUKOSnv2zY]
Click to expand...


So... that election was a couple of years ago now. How many have been convicted of vote fraud?

I'm sure, based on that video, that someone did a lot of voter registration fraud there. However, that's not the same as voter fraud. We'd have to know why they turned in the fake registrations - were they planning to vote all those names (and if so, how?) or were they simply being paid by the registration card and wanted to make more money? My bet is on the latter, but since it has been two years, I'm sure you have the current status of the judicial proceedings, right?

barfo
 
http://www.hometownannapolis.com/news/top/2000/12/17-30

Since 1998, three different Hollywood personalities have suggested during talk show appearances that Rep. Henry Hyde, R-Ill., actor Charlton Heston and independent counsel Ken Starr should be shot! Recently, Bill Maher "joked" that Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris should be murdered.

Additionally, a Democratic operative from New York City was filmed in Milwaukee trying to buy the votes of homeless people with cartons of cigarettes. In Florida, another Democratic operative was caught with a punch-card voting machine in the trunk of his car
 
barfo said:
So... that election was a couple of years ago now. How many have been convicted of vote fraud?

I'm sure, based on that video, that someone did a lot of voter registration fraud there. However, that's not the same as voter fraud. We'd have to know why they turned in the fake registrations - were they planning to vote all those names (and if so, how?) or were they simply being paid by the registration card and wanted to make more money? My bet is on the latter, but since it has been two years, I'm sure you have the current status of the judicial proceedings, right?

barfo
Click to expand...

Those dead people would have voted if their voter registration forms weren't found out to be fraudulent.
 
You deserve a better link. ABC News OK?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=94998&page=2

Several days after presidential votes were tallied in what has become the hotbed of Florida’s post-election confusion, police in Palm Beach County confiscated a ballot-box mechanism from the car of a well-known local Democrat. The mechanism, called a “Votamatic,” did not contain any ballots. It’s a device used on some types of ballot boxes to punch votes through ballot cards, which are then tallied by computers. According to a police report filed at the Palm Beach County sheriff’s office and obtained by ABCNEWS, Irving Slosberg, 53, pulled the mechanism from his car and handed it over to police on Nov. 11 after denying to a county government employee that he had it.
 
Denny Crane said:
You deserve a better link. ABC News OK?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=94998&page=2

Several days after presidential votes were tallied in what has become the hotbed of Florida’s post-election confusion, police in Palm Beach County confiscated a ballot-box mechanism from the car of a well-known local Democrat. The mechanism, called a “Votamatic,” did not contain any ballots. It’s a device used on some types of ballot boxes to punch votes through ballot cards, which are then tallied by computers. According to a police report filed at the Palm Beach County sheriff’s office and obtained by ABCNEWS, Irving Slosberg, 53, pulled the mechanism from his car and handed it over to police on Nov. 11 after denying to a county government employee that he had it.
Click to expand...

Ok, I believe that guy stole a voting machine. Did he actually succeed in doing anything nefarious with it? When did he steal it? Before the election or after?

barfo
 
Denny Crane said:
http://www.hometownannapolis.com/news/top/2000/12/17-30

Since 1998, three different Hollywood personalities have suggested during talk show appearances that Rep. Henry Hyde, R-Ill., actor Charlton Heston and independent counsel Ken Starr should be shot! Recently, Bill Maher "joked" that Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris should be murdered.

Additionally, a Democratic operative from New York City was filmed in Milwaukee trying to buy the votes of homeless people with cartons of cigarettes. In Florida, another Democratic operative was caught with a punch-card voting machine in the trunk of his car
Click to expand...

This is exciting stuff. Hard to believe Bill Maher, of all people, would say something like that! This is shocking, simply shocking. Next thing you know, kids will be stealing candy from Circle-K. Film at 11.

barfo
 
barfo said:
Ok, I believe that guy stole a voting machine. Did he actually succeed in doing anything nefarious with it? When did he steal it? Before the election or after?

barfo
Click to expand...

Of course there were no ballots in it 4 days after the recount. They were all punched before the recount, using the machine.

In fact, if you took something like this:
Ice+Pick.jpg


and poked it through a stack of ballots where the Al Gore chad would be, it'd make:
1) All the actual votes for Gore still for Gore
2) All the votes for Bush invalid because both candidates were "voted" for
3) All the ballots with nobody selected for president become for Gore
 
barfo said:
This is exciting stuff. Hard to believe Bill Maher, of all people, would say something like that! This is shocking, simply shocking. Next thing you know, kids will be stealing candy from Circle-K. Film at 11.

barfo
Click to expand...

See the ABC News link. It's the same guy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

SlyPokerDog
USA TODAY's Editorial Board: Trump is 'unfit for the presidency'
3 4 5
Replies
129
Views
9K
blue32
blue32
BrianFromWA
Primer Draft: What to Watch For (Part One)
Replies
18
Views
2K
magnifier661
magnifier661
maxiep
The 45th anniversary of a great speech
Replies
11
Views
611
barfo
barfo
GotSkillz92
100 reasons to hate derek jeter
Replies
17
Views
2K
DevinHester23
DevinHester23

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top