Union Voting Machines May Be Committing Fraud

[julius]

wait, there's gold under the WTC?

 

[barfo]

wait, there's gold under the WTC?

THERE was an ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF GOLD under WTC7, but IT disappeared after THE BOMBING. Why ISN'T the media covering THIS, and VOTER fraud?

baRFO

 

[Denny Crane]

Yes, it is difficult to prove that Bush masterminded 9/11, but that doesn't mean he didn't do it.

barfo

Perhaps 10,000,000 people smoke marijuana, breaking federal law. But your logic is that because they weren't convicted of breaking the federal law, they aren't smoking marijuana.

 

[barfo]

Perhaps 10,000,000 people smoke marijuana, breaking federal law. But your logic is that because they weren't convicted of breaking the federal law, they aren't smoking marijuana.

No... but if there are 10,000,000 people smoking marijuana, then you'd expect there to be at least a few federal convictions. And indeed, there are.
On vote fraud, there don't seem to be. There are a few rather pathetic local cases and individual bad ballots, but no giant vote farms to spray with paraquat. No huge underground economy growing votes. Nothing that would support your position that this is an important issue.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

No... but if there are 10,000,000 people smoking marijuana, then you'd expect there to be at least a few federal convictions. And indeed, there are.
On vote fraud, there don't seem to be. There are a few rather pathetic local cases and individual bad ballots, but no giant vote farms to spray with paraquat. No huge underground economy growing votes. Nothing that would support your position that this is an important issue.

barfo

Look, I'm all in favor of get out the vote groups doing their thing legally. When you have several who have numerous convictions and tens of thousands of registrations thrown out at a time, it's more than a few pathetic little cases. When it happens in 10+ states, it's widespread.

When there's a concerted effort to register dead people and others who obviously have no legitimate ability to vote, it's so someone can show up and vote illegally and make a fraud of the election.

There is a huge underground economy growing voters and thus votes. It's well documented.

Denial isn't a reasoned argument.

 

[Paxil]

I just posted 7 CONVICTIONS in the past couple years where a number of ineligible ballots were cast.

The FAIL is you not getting how widespread it is. You seem willing to let it slide as long as it's in favor of your side, and as long as you can excuse it away because the district attorney hasn't gotten 8500 indictments where there are 8500 fraudulent votes.

It doesn't seem widespread at all... in fact those cases seem like a drop in the bucket compared to 300 million people in the US. I am glad they got caught... but it seems like some random wackos... lazy election people who didn't want to recount again.

 

[Denny Crane]

It doesn't seem widespread at all... in fact those cases seem like a drop in the bucket compared to 300 million people in the US. I am glad they got caught... but it seems like some random wackos... lazy election people who didn't want to recount again.

I guess it depends on what "widespread" means to you. Like I wrote, 10+ states and repeated election cycles and 10s of thousands of voter registrations tossed for illegalities at a time.

You also have to look at what they're trying to accomplish. In a few elections, it only takes a few hundred votes to change the outcome of the vote. In Minnesota, for example, Al Franken was named Senator after a contentious recount; he won by 312 votes. An 18 month study of the ballots and registrations found that at least 314 felons voted illegally. If Norm Coleman had won, there'd have been no 60 seat majority in the senate, and the outcome of a number of some really big spending agenda items may not have passed.

I already documented the issues with the Washington Governor's race.

As an aside, governors are really important to what goes on in D.C. For one, when a senator or house member dies, the governor typically gets to appoint a successor (democrat will pick a democrat, republican a republican). Governors also are strong at providing local resources to national campaigns.

 

[MrJayremmie]

Denny, why do you hate America?

 

[barfo]

Look, I'm all in favor of get out the vote groups doing their thing legally. When you have several who have numerous convictions and tens of thousands of registrations thrown out at a time, it's more than a few pathetic little cases. When it happens in 10+ states, it's widespread.

When there's a concerted effort to register dead people and others who obviously have no legitimate ability to vote, it's so someone can show up and vote illegally and make a fraud of the election.

There is a huge underground economy growing voters and thus votes. It's well documented.

Denial isn't a reasoned argument.

You have failed to show any evidence for the bolded part at all. And if it were actually true, there would be lots of convictions, because it would be a very simple matter to wait for the dead people to show up at the polling place and arrest them when they do. It's a rare criminal who announces what day and location they are going to commit a crime, and checks in when they get there.

But that never seems to happen. All you can find is registration fraud, not vote fraud. And the obvious reason for that is that one exists on a wide scale and the other doesn't.

Or it's a gigantic conspiracy that none of the law enforcement officers in the country are able to crack despite it being conducted in plain sight. Your choice.

barfo

 

[barfo]

You also have to look at what they're trying to accomplish. In a few elections, it only takes a few hundred votes to change the outcome of the vote. In Minnesota, for example, Al Franken was named Senator after a contentious recount; he won by 312 votes. An 18 month study of the ballots and registrations found that at least 314 felons voted illegally.

You think someone said "Hey, this election is going to be decided by 312 votes. I'd better round up 314 felons, get them registered, and order them to vote for Franken"?

Do you even have any evidence that those 314 felons all voted for Franken?

Didn't think so.

barfo

 

[maxiep]

http://americanmajorityaction.org/voterfraudapp/

 

[Masbee]

I have a not-so-out there hypothesis: losers whine that the game was rigged.

Since the R's were losers last time out, they are making accusations of voter fraud.
Since the D's will be losers this time, expect a bunch of accusations of voter fraud from the D side over the next couple of years.

Most of these cases of "voter fraud" don't amount to much - either unsupported allegations (such as the fox news report) or minor, localized problems (like paying voter registration workers improperly). And I doubt the ones the Democrats will allege will amount to much either.

It's really just a tool to rally the base, and judging from the responses here, it works just fine.

barfo

No offense barfo, but you sound like those poster who for years belittled fans who said there was something wrong with NBA refs. You won't admit it until the proof is plunked down in front of youl.

I think voter fraud is a lot more common then you admit in this post.

 

[barfo]

No offense barfo, but you sound like those poster who for years belittled fans who said there was something wrong with NBA refs. You won't admit it until the proof is plunked down in front of youl.

I think voter fraud is a lot more common then you admit in this post.

No offense taken. It's your right to believe whatever you want. We have freedom of religion in this country.

Myself, I don't see any need for faith-based voter fraud assessment.

barfo

 

[Masbee]

It's weird how you can't come up with even a single case anywhere in the united states where someone was actually tried and convicted for voter fraud, isn't it? Seems like a "pattern".

barfo

How many Finance execs have been convicted for financial crimes after the financial system blew up in 2008?

Do crimes committed and convictions have any relationship to, well, anything?

Voter fraud is not persued. It is not in the interest of the two major parties to make a big scandal out of the situation. Whine and fight during elections, but sweep it under afterwards. The more the system itself is deemed to be untrustworthy, the less credibility both parties have with the population.

 

[barfo]

How many Finance execs have been convicted for financial crimes after the financial system blew up in 2008?

Beats me. Were crimes even committed? Seems to me the primary cause was legal, if stupid, stuff.

Do crimes committed and convictions have any relationship to, well, anything?

Weren't we talking about a crime? Vote fraud?

Voter fraud is not persued. It is not in the interest of the two major parties to make a big scandal out of the situation. Whine and fight during elections, but sweep it under afterwards. The more the system itself is deemed to be untrustworthy, the less credibility both parties have with the population.

The two parties don't control everything in American life. There are lots of people who would benefit from making a big scandal out of the situation - reporters, for instance. I think it stretches credibility to suggest that the political parties jointly keep the media from reporting on any vote fraud they find. If that theory were true there wouldn't be any reports of voter registration fraud, either.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

You have failed to show any evidence for the bolded part at all. And if it were actually true, there would be lots of convictions, because it would be a very simple matter to wait for the dead people to show up at the polling place and arrest them when they do. It's a rare criminal who announces what day and location they are going to commit a crime, and checks in when they get there.

But that never seems to happen. All you can find is registration fraud, not vote fraud. And the obvious reason for that is that one exists on a wide scale and the other doesn't.

Or it's a gigantic conspiracy that none of the law enforcement officers in the country are able to crack despite it being conducted in plain sight. Your choice.

barfo

It's not being done in plain sight of the authorities. If you have 30,000 illegal votes cast out of 6M, it's like finding the needle in a haystack. That's part of why people do it and get away with it and why it's unreported.

Consider a teamster type shows up at a precinct with a water bill addressed to some dead guy. He votes. Then he takes a cab to the next precinct over and votes using an electric bill addressed to some other dead guy. And so on. Do it with a few bus loads and there's enough votes manufactured to swing an election.

If we're talking about a place with a corrupt government (e.g. Daley machine in Chicago), you have the people in charge ordering the investigators to stay away (like how in one of the articles I posted happened in Wisconsin), while some political hack runs out to the voting machine in the trunk of his car with a stack of blank ballots.

Let's turn this around. How do you think any of such a huge number of illegal voters are going to get caught? I'm curious as to the size and scope of the organization required to compare 10,000 signatures from one precinct against 10,000 signatures from another to see if someone signed more than once using one or more names. I'm curious as to which 30,000 out of 6M ballots you think can be identified as the actual illegal ballots cast.

I also wonder how you're going to go about this without (being accused of) squashing the vote, disenfranchising valid voters' votes, intimidation, etc.

In the meantime, this is quite enjoyable in a Boardwalk Empire sort of way:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A36425-2000Nov16?language=printer

In Chicago, where Kennedy won by more than 450,000 votes, local reporters uncovered so many stories of electoral shenanigans--including voting by the dead--that the Chicago Tribune concluded that "the election of November 8 was characterized by such gross and palpable fraud as to justify the conclusion that [Nixon] was deprived of victory."

A new biography, "American Pharaoh," quotes Mayor Daley defending his city by claiming that Democratic fraud in Chicago was no worse than Republican fraud in downstate Illinois:

"You look at some of those downstate counties," he said, "and it's just as fantastic as some of those precincts they're pointing at in Chicago."

Robert Kennedy, his brother's campaign manager, shrugged off the whole controversy: "A tempest in a teapot."

A Republican National Committee member filed suit to challenge the Chicago results. The case was assigned to Circuit Court Judge Thomas Kluczynski, a Daley machine loyalist.

On Dec. 13, Kluczynski dismissed the Republican suit. Less than a year later, on Mayor Daley's recommendation, Kennedy appointed Kluczynski to the federal bench.

Ultimately, a special prosecutor, Morris Wexler, was appointed to investigate the Chicago fraud allegations. Wexler brought charges against 650 election officials but a Democratic judge's pro-defense rulings crippled Wexler's case and the charges were dropped.

Finally, in 1962, after an election judge confessed to witnessing vote tampering in Chicago's 28th ward, three precinct workers pled guilty and served short jail terms.

And Masbee got it right. That was then, and now they're so much more skilled at it and have the aid of technology, though the craft of fixing elections is certainly centuries (if not thousands of years) old.

 

[barfo]

It's not being done in plain sight of the authorities. If you have 30,000 illegal votes cast out of 6M, it's like finding the needle in a haystack. That's part of why people do it and get away with it and why it's unreported.

Uh, no. You follow up on the illegal voter registrations that you've received and that you claim lead to illegal votes. If you have the fake name they'll be voting under and their precinct, why can't you show up on voting day and arrest them? Seems pretty simple to me, and not at all like finding needles in haystacks.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Uh, no. You follow up on the illegal voter registrations that you've received and that you claim lead to illegal votes. If you have the fake name they'll be voting under and their precinct, why can't you show up on voting day and arrest them? Seems pretty simple to me, and not at all like finding needles in haystacks.

barfo

They're not catching all the illegal registrations, those are just the tip of the iceberg. Even if they did try to set some sort of trap, how does that play out without it being intimidation of the legit voters?

barfo: "Hi, I'm barfo, I'm here to vote. Here's my electric bill, where's my ballot?"
poll worker: "Please wait while I compare your information against this list of 30,000 known illegal registrations."
much later...
poll worker: "I'm sorry barfo, but it seems like you're on this list."
barfo: "but I'm really a registered voter, I have no clue (what you're talking about)."

meanwhile...

illegal immigrant: "I'm here to vote, here's my driver's license."
poll worker: "I'll have to check your registration against the 30,000 known illegal ones."
much later...
poll worker: "here's your ballot. come back after you vote and I'll give you an I Voted sticker."

 

[barfo]

They're not catching all the illegal registrations, those are just the tip of the iceberg.

So what? I didn't claim they could catch every single illegal vote this way. I said that if illegal registrations were made for the purpose of voting as you claim, they could catch those illegal voters this way.

Even if they did try to set some sort of trap, how does that play out without it being intimidation of the legit voters?

barfo: "Hi, I'm barfo, I'm here to vote. Here's my electric bill, where's my ballot?"
poll worker: "Please wait while I compare your information against this list of 30,000 known illegal registrations."

Uhm, no. First of all, the list is much shorter because it covers only those registered to vote in that precinct. Secondly, the poll workers have to compare my information against a list anyway. They don't just hand a ballot to anyone who walks in the door who has a local address. Third, they don't need a separate list of the illegal registrations, the list of registrations can just include some notation to indicate illegality. When one shows up to ask for a ballot, the poll worker presses the panic button under the desk, and the plainclothes officer wanders over and leads the miscreant away.

barfo

 

[Masbee]

Beats me. Were crimes even committed? Seems to me the primary cause was legal, if stupid, stuff.

That is what the "story" is. It is not so. Massive fraud occured at many levels of the mortgage market, for example. Lies were built upon lies which were stacked on top of more lies. They even openly called certain types of loans in the mortgage market LIAR loans. Those were packaged up by Wall Street, sold as "Prime", and given top grade ratings by the ratings agencies. Lie on top of lie on top of lie. If we had the rule of law, thousands would be prosecuted for fraud. That isn't "legal, stupid, stuff." It is unprosecuted fraud.

 

[maxiep]

http://www.shotinthedark.info/wp/?p=14868

 

[BGrantFan]

http://www.shotinthedark.info/wp/?p=14868

Also, anyone adjudicated incompetent, whether or not under guardianship, is ineligible to vote. MNST sec. 201.014 subd. 2(c).

This is Minnesota state law. Pretty cut and dry voter fraud. Any and all who participated in this illegal activity should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and the poll worker who allegedly cast another person's vote should be imprisoned if found guilty.

One of the most basic rights free citizens of the United States have is their vote. To have a legal ballot canceled out by an illegal ballot is an outrage.

 

[maxiep]

Also, anyone adjudicated incompetent, whether or not under guardianship, is ineligible to vote. MNST sec. 201.014 subd. 2(c).

This is Minnesota state law. Pretty cut and dry voter fraud. Any and all who participated in this illegal activity should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and the poll worker who allegedly cast another person's vote should be imprisoned if found guilty.

One of the most basic rights free citizens of the United States have is their vote. To have a legal ballot canceled out by an illegal ballot is an outrage.

I'll make a guarantee: Track these voters and their record and you'll see they all voted for Al Franken.

 

[maxiep]

Also, anyone adjudicated incompetent, whether or not under guardianship, is ineligible to vote. MNST sec. 201.014 subd. 2(c).

This is Minnesota state law. Pretty cut and dry voter fraud. Any and all who participated in this illegal activity should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and the poll worker who allegedly cast another person's vote should be imprisoned if found guilty.

One of the most basic rights free citizens of the United States have is their vote. To have a legal ballot canceled out by an illegal ballot is an outrage.

As an aside, my mother-in-law (a woman I love, but who is as misguided as they come) not only voted for herself, but for her 88 year old sister. Aunt Kathy is in a home and has Alzheimers, but she has voted on social issues (she's a conservative Catholic). Her ballot this time looks like it was filled out by Ed Schultz.

 

[maxiep]

It's good to be the king...

http://www.nationalreview.com/battl...ut-squeeze-employees-vote-reid-elizabeth-crum

Something tells me Sharron Angle is going to lose.

 

[Denny Crane]

Blatant.

http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/...ed-Ballots-Found-in-Bridgeport-106727208.html

Bag of Uncounted Ballots Found in Bridgeport

Wednesday, Secretary of the State Susan Bysiewicz declared Democrat Dan Malloy the "unofficial" winner, but numbers released by her office show Republican Tom Foley still leading Malloy by more than 8,000 votes. Those totals do not include any of the vote totals from the City of Bridgeport.

Republican officials were approached by Democratic operatives and told about the surprise ballot bag, according to Bridgeport GOP Chairman Marc Delmonico.

Election officials began counting those ballots just after 5 p.m. Thursday when the new bag of uncounted ballots was discovered.

 

[maxiep]

Isn't it interesting that any close election seems to go to the Democrats? Keep an eye on the Ellmers/Etheridge recount, btw.

 

[Denny Crane]

Is the theft of the Connecticut election over yet?