US government sues Arizona over anti-immigration law

[maxiep]

Is it shocking that govt. fails to do its job?

LOL

It's shocking when they intentionally turn their back.

 

[MARIS61]

20 B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).

What is "reasonable suspicion that the PERSON is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States" ?

Being unable to produce ID such as a driver's license when stopped for speeding in a car, producing forged ID, giving a false name and address, being unable to speak at least rudimentary English, not knowing who the Father of our country is, working jobs under the table for shit wages...

 

[Denny Crane]

It's shocking when they intentionally turn their back.

Like you expect them to do with health care when they ration it?

 

[Denny Crane]

Being unable to produce ID such as a driver's license when stopped for speeding in a car, producing forged ID, giving a false name and address, being unable to speak at least rudimentary English, not knowing who the Father of our country is, working jobs under the table for shit wages...

A lot of citizens don't know shit about the country, like who the "Father" of our country is.

 

[ripcity67]

It's not a legal requirement to carry identification while walking around. It's a good idea in case you get hit by a care or something, but not a requirement.

I will try to find the article where it was comparing the AZ law to the Mexico law. It stated that the law in Mexico was stricter and made it a legal requirement to carry ID at all times. It also said that Mexico has recently rewritten their laws so they stop treating their illegals out their southern border inhumanely. It also clearly stated that they had not revised the ID clause of their law at this time. It is very hypocritical that Mexico is sueing the state of AZ when they have harsher laws on their books then we do. Of course Obama didn't mention that little fact when he was kissing the Mexican leaders ass and insulting the governor of Arizona.

 

[Denny Crane]

I will try to find the article where it was comparing the AZ law to the Mexico law. It stated that the law in Mexico was stricter and made it a legal requirement to carry ID at all times. It also said that Mexico has recently rewritten their laws so they stop treating their illegals out their southern border inhumanely. It also clearly stated that they had not revised the ID clause of their law at this time. It is very hypocritical that Mexico is sueing the state of AZ when they have harsher laws on their books then we do. Of course Obama didn't mention that little fact when he was kissing the Mexican leaders ass and insulting the governor of Arizona.

We're not Mexico. It's supposed to be a "free country" here, right?

 

[ripcity67]

We're not Mexico. It's supposed to be a "free country" here, right?

It is free within its laws. It is not a free ride.

 

[MARIS61]

A lot of citizens don't know shit about the country, like who the "Father" of our country is.

About 18 million to be precise, every single one of them an illegal alien.

 

[MARIS61]

Like you expect them to do with health care when they ration it?

By ration it you of course mean withhold it from the millions of illegal aliens we waste it on, right?

 

[MARIS61]

The police aren't robots. They're going to have suspicion first, then find a reason to pull people with brown skin over, then hassle them for papers. Just like in all sorts of nasty countries none of us would want to live in.

If you had spent any time in AZ you'd know there is very little racism there. Hispanics in particular are a welcome part of the culture and community. Racism tends to exist mainly in areas with unbalanced racial dispersion, like Lake Oswego or Watts.

Arizonans have no serious problems with each other, whether they are Hispanic, Caucasian or of another race. Their problem is with the millions of illegals sapping their economic base and selling drugs to their children.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN2514063220100725

 

[Denny Crane]

It is free within its laws. It is not a free ride.

Who says anyone should get a free ride?

If your gripe is they come here and work, even for sub minimum wage, at least they come here to work.

 

[ripcity67]

Who says anyone should get a free ride?

If your gripe is they come here and work, even for sub minimum wage, at least they come here to work.

Why can't they fill out the proper paperwork like so many other people do) before coming here to work. Then they wouldn't be illegal. Do you think it is fair since they can walk across the border they should not be required to go through the proper procedure for entering the country to work?

 

[Denny Crane]

Why can't they fill out the proper paperwork like so many other people do) before coming here to work. Then they wouldn't be illegal. Do you think it is fair since they can walk across the border they should not be required to go through the proper procedure for entering the country to work?

I think a free country would have free borders.

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

 

[BrianFromWA]

Did people have to wait at Ellis Island to get registered?

 

[barfo]

Why can't they fill out the proper paperwork like so many other people do) before coming here to work. Then they wouldn't be illegal. Do you think it is fair since they can walk across the border they should not be required to go through the proper procedure for entering the country to work?

What is the proper procedure?

The answer is, your US employer has to submit the paperwork on your behalf. What the government wants (I guess) is for employers to go down to Mexico and recruit workers there, go home and fill out the paperwork for each employee, and then when the paperwork is approved, the employee can enter the US.

That, of course, is highly unrealistic for many employers, and impossible for most employees simply because the employers don't follow the law. To find work, they have to cross the border illegally. They can't just "fill out the proper paperwork". There isn't any paperwork for them to fill out.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Did people have to wait at Ellis Island to get registered?

I think they just stood in line and signed their name on a register. People were basically turned away if they were sick (carried some disease).

I'd be plenty happy if we did that at the Mexico (and Canada) border.

 

[BrianFromWA]

would anyone be up in arms if Congress passed an "Ellis Island Law"? One that said you have to stop at a border crossing, take a picture, fingerprints/DNA and get an ID card?

 

[barfo]

would anyone be up in arms if Congress passed an "Ellis Island Law"? One that said you have to stop at a border crossing, take a picture, fingerprints/DNA and get an ID card?

Obviously. No matter what Congress does, someone is up in arms about it.

It wouldn't be me, though. What you propose sounds pretty reasonable.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

barfo's almost always wrong. Here's an example of when he's actually right.

Yes, it's reasonable to have open borders but have those who wish to come here pass through checkpoints. It's even reasonable to turn people away if they're carrying a disease.

 

[ripcity67]

I am dropping out of this little debate. It won't go anywhere anyways. I won't convince you the law is good, and I guarantee that you will not convince me that the law is bad. It has been fun. Now back to a Rudy is a whinny bitch thread.

 

[Minstrel]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38436995/ns/us_news-immigration_a_nation_divided/

PHOENIX — A federal judge dealt a serious blow to Arizona's immigration law on Wednesday when she put most of the crackdown on hold just hours before it was to take effect.

The ruling by U.S. District Judge Susan Bolton sets up a lengthy legal battle as Arizona fights to enact the nation's toughest-in-the-nation law. Republican Gov. Jan Brewer said the state likely appeal the ruling and seek to get the judge's order overturned.

But for now, opponents of the law have prevailed: The provisions that angered opponents will not take effect, including sections that required officers to check a person's immigration status while enforcing other laws.

The judge also delayed parts of the law that required immigrants to carry their papers at all times, and made it illegal for undocumented workers to solicit employment in public places. In addition, the judge blocked officers from making warrantless arrests of suspected illegal immigrants.

"Requiring Arizona law enforcement officials and agencies to determine the immigration status of every person who is arrested burdens lawfully-present aliens because their liberty will be restricted while their status is checked," U.S. District Judge Susan Bolton, a Clinton appointee, said in her decision.

 

[blazerboy30]

I think a free country would have free borders.

Those two things aren't related for non-citizens.

 

[Denny Crane]

Those two things aren't related for non-citizens.

Sure they are. Aren't non-citizens allowed to own property here? Because it's a free country.

And thank goodness for the judge who values peoples' Liberty.

 

[blazerboy30]

No they aren't.

Why don't we provide social security to citizens of every country around the world? Why don't we deploy our Police and Fire departments to protect and help people living in other countries?

 

[Denny Crane]

No they aren't.

Why don't we provide social security to citizens of every country around the world? Why don't we deploy our Police and Fire departments to protect and help people living in other countries?

If a French citizen (not US citizen) buys a house here and it burns down or is burglarized, the police and fire departments will show up and do their jobs as if the owner were a citizen.

If you murder that French citizen, you might get The Chair or gas chamber. If he murders you, same goes for him. Under the exact same set of OUR laws.

 

[BrianFromWA]

if he murders you, he flies back to France and they don't extradite him.

 

[Denny Crane]

if he murders you, he flies back to France and they don't extradite him.

Or BB could murder you and flee to France and not be extradited, as well. (Perish the thought, it's a hypothetical).

There'd be a warrant out for the murderer here, in either case.

As for Social Security, why shouldn't non-citizens pay into it and receive benefits if they live here?

 

[blazerboy30]

If a French citizen (not US citizen) buys a house here and it burns down or is burglarized, the police and fire departments will show up and do their jobs as if the owner were a citizen.

That isn't what I asked. Why don't we deploy our services to other countries?

 

[blazerboy30]

As for Social Security, why shouldn't non-citizens pay into it and receive benefits if they live here?

Why does it matter where they live? We should just collect Social Security from people of every country. Borders don't mean anything, as you've stated again and again.