Victor Oladipo an intriguing potential trade target for the Portland Trail Blazers

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illmatic99 said:
leave it to me to mess that up so badly.

oops.
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Still oladipo is no kawhi. They want actual value, I agree they need to add due to the flight risk, injury, history, etc.
 
RR7 said:
Still oladipo is no kawhi. They want actual value, I agree they need to add due to the flight risk, injury, history, etc.
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especially if it's for a guy locked in longterm like CJ.
 
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illmatic99 said:
uh... cuz he's a risk to walk?

like how the spurs threw in Poeltl along with Kawhi to toronto?
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You saying incentivize makes it sound like they need to attach an asset to dump him.
 
That All defensive 2017-18 season for Oladipo sure looks more like an outlier season compared to the rest of his career, yet he seems to get generally judged solely on that season. As inefficient as CJ is, and complained abiout, take away V.O.'s stand out season, and his highest TS% for his career was .534. Since becoming a full time player, CJ has never been that bad.
VO has once been OVER .100 WS/48. CJ has only once been under.

VO has only once shot over .365 from 3. CJ's never shot below .375.

If he was on our team, fans would hate on him so much for how much even less efficient he is than CJ, and his little bit of defense wouldn't cover for that. Of course, he'd never actually be on the floor, so we could always just live off of his memory from 3 season ago to make us feel like we might get that one again.
I'd happily take V.O. But not for CJ
 
RR7 said:
That All defensive 2017-18 season for Oladipo sure looks more like an outlier season compared to the rest of his career, yet he seems to get generally judged solely on that season. As inefficient as CJ is, and complained abiout, take away V.O.'s stand out season, and his highest TS% for his career was .534. Since becoming a full time player, CJ has never been that bad.
VO has once been OVER .100 WS/48. CJ has only once been under.

VO has only once shot over .365 from 3. CJ's never shot below .375.

If he was on our team, fans would hate on him so much for how much even less efficient he is than CJ, and his little bit of defense wouldn't cover for that. Of course, he'd never actually be on the floor, so we could always just live off of his memory from 3 season ago to make us feel like we might get that one again.
I'd happily take V.O. But not for CJ
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I don't think it's a huge upgrade in terms of talent but I think it is huge in terms of fit. You're way off when you say "his little bit of defense". Oladipo is far and away a better defender than CJ. His efficiency is bad because he is a lead guard on Indy, here he'd be the secondary scorer and hopefully he would take the wide open jumpers that CJ passes up to go iso. I like CJ for a team that needs a guy like Dame that isn't as good as Dame is at anything but we aren't that team. Oladipo brings a different set of skills and would make our team better. Oladipo is not as good of an offensive player as CJ is, that's clear but he is so ahead of CJ on D that it makes up for the offensive difference. The thing is we need defense a lot more than we need offense and the drop off from CJ down to Oladipo isn't going to kill our offense. The only concern about Oladipo is health and if that's your argument then I don't really have anything to counter that.
 
blazerkor said:
I don't think it's a huge upgrade in terms of talent but I think it is huge in terms of fit. You're way off when you say "his little bit of defense". Oladipo is far and away a better defender than CJ. His efficiency is bad because he is a lead guard on Indy, here he'd be the secondary scorer and hopefully he would take the wide open jumpers that CJ passes up to go iso. I like CJ for a team that needs a guy like Dame that isn't as good as Dame is at anything but we aren't that team. Oladipo brings a different set of skills and would make our team better. Oladipo is not as good of an offensive player as CJ is, that's clear but he is so ahead of CJ on D that it makes up for the offensive difference. The thing is we need defense a lot more than we need offense and the drop off from CJ down to Oladipo isn't going to kill our offense. The only concern about Oladipo is health and if that's your argument then I don't really have anything to counter that.
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What different set of skills does he bring other than he is a better defender than CJ? I'm conceding defense. Absolutely. He played lead guard. Great. CJ essentially plays like one as well. He just does it better. His defense isn't enough of a difference maker for us. He's not taking out the opponents best wing, generally. He's too small for that. So he's a better defender on most teams secondary player, great.
 
RR7 said:
What different set of skills does he bring other than he is a better defender than CJ? I'm conceding defense. Absolutely. He played lead guard. Great. CJ essentially plays like one as well. He just does it better. His defense isn't enough of a difference maker for us. He's not taking out the opponents best wing, generally. He's too small for that. So he's a better defender on most teams secondary player, great.
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I was solely talking about his defense but I should have noted that his style of defense leads to turnovers which generate transition offense, which isn't something we see too much of right now. He's also far more athletic and long than CJ, I guess those are physical gifts more than part of his skill set but they will also change the way we operate as a team. I just think he's a better fit next to Dame. I do not think that overall he is necessarily a better player than CJ, I think CJ is better at scoring and just as good at passing but the drop off in team offense would pale in comparison to the step up in defense.
 
RR7 said:
What different set of skills does he bring other than he is a better defender than CJ? I'm conceding defense. Absolutely. He played lead guard. Great. CJ essentially plays like one as well. He just does it better. His defense isn't enough of a difference maker for us. He's not taking out the opponents best wing, generally. He's too small for that. So he's a better defender on most teams secondary player, great.
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What do you expect to get in order to trade CJ? Kawhi?

Of course Oladipo is not gonna lockdown LeBron, but the duo in our guard spots will be much more balanced. Dame/Oladipo could really be a perfect one two punch in guard spots. And I'm pretty sure he can guard players like Beal, Kyrie, Harden, Murray etc giving Dame a pass on D. Now we are getting hit on both guard spots and this is not something we can easily overcome. I cannot believe it's either guard Leonard,LeBron or there is no point to get you. You are supposed to have Ariza to guard those guys. Yes we will lose a bit on iso Offense, but i'm pretty sure iso offense gets us nowhere anyway. We need to change our offensive plan and get more players involved. Oladipo can benefit more than CJ by Nurk's playmaking as he can actually cut to the rim.
 
Nowhere did I say guard Lebron or there's no point.

So is the only dimension Oladipo adds on offense that he supposedly cuts to the rim, where CJ does not? Ignoring everything else he does worse on offense?
Again, I'd happily take him, but not in a swap with CJ, where we aren't gaining the value most seem to believe.
 
RR7 said:
Nowhere did I say guard Lebron or there's no point.

So is the only dimension Oladipo adds on offense that he supposedly cuts to the rim, where CJ does not? Ignoring everything else he does worse on offense?
Again, I'd happily take him, but not in a swap with CJ, where we aren't gaining the value most seem to believe.
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We just state that the + he brings on D is more important than the - he brings on O compared to CJ. You always end up comparing them only where CJ is best at. I prefer more balanced players. CJ is great on offense but completely trash on D. While Oladipo is above average on O and great on D.

And in the offense i would like to see from us their deference in offensive ability would not be significant but that's me and my preference for less isos.

I would still not swap him for CJ as well but due to injury concerns. This is something else.
 
GDiama said:
We just state that the + he brings on D is more important than the - he brings on O compared to CJ. You always end up comparing them only where CJ is best at. I prefer more balanced players. CJ is great on offense but completely trash on D. While Oladipo is above average on O and great on D.

And in the offense i would like to see from us their deference in offensive ability would not be significant but that's me and my preference for less isos.

I would still not swap him for CJ as well but due to injury concerns. This is something else.
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I obviously agree wholeheartedly with you that for our team the additions that Oladipo brings would outweigh his shortcomings on offense when compared to the kind of rare scorer CJ is. The thing that no one is really saying is that everything CJ can do on offense, Dame can do better. Dame is also the better defender of the two. That being said they are both undersized guards who in Dame's case is an average defender and in CJ's case an atrocious defender and although with Dame this is less of the case, they both are score first guys offensively. Dame and CJ do not compliment each other because their strengths and weaknesses overlap so much while Oladipo and Dame do not have that same problem. Oladipo is longer more athletic and overall just a much much better defender than CJ. Oladipo can still hit the three and we haven't seen him work with a guy like Dame before (Russ is not a guy like Dame).

One thing on offense that Oladipo is better at than CJ is moving without the ball, when he doesn't have the ball he's not just facing his defender up waiting to iso, the guy looks to cut back door and get himself open not just wait for someone like Dame to get him open by drawing a double or triple team. However he has been ball dominant since reaching Indy so there could be a chance that when he gets the ball especially off of Dame doubles and triples he will unwisely play the way CJ does, trying to take everyone on instead of taking his open shots or looking to rotate to the open man (I don't think he would do that but it could be argued). CJ doesn't cut all the way to the hoop as well as Oladipo that is true and CJ gives us almost zero transition or fast break points and/or opportunities. The biggest concern anyone should have with Oladipo is his health but surprisingly no one else has been bringing that up. If healthy, for our team's purposes, Oladipo is the much much better option.

Again this is not my favorite trade we could make I would much rather get Middleton even if we had to sweeten that deal and most of all, to be repetitive, I would want to trade CJ and Ariza for Harris, Richardson and the 21st pick if we could get it but the pick wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.
 
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please note, the entire league average for 3pt.% last season was 35.8%. not league avg for shooting guards but entire league. his 3pt% career is south of that and only exceeded it during his season in OKC 36.1%. cj is a career 39.7% cj is only slightly higher in 2p% so call that a wash. on the same number of att in portlands offense this would appear to provide a 3pt/per game bump in a direct comparison between the two. does olidapo provide a 3pt differential on the defesive side of the ball? does the additional steal per game/deflection per game that the nba tracks result in an equal or better outcome? not so sure. i also question the odds of olidapo's other inefficiencies providing the offense on dames off nights or nights off where cj often takes up the slack or lead.
i just can't picture the upgrade in an even player swap. if olidapo comes on the heals of a cj for an upgrade at the wing or pf ok, maybe. not sure though if $ is worth it. GTjr. would appear to provide the same defensive upgrade at significant savings, plus a far superior 3pt. shooter.
i think pertaining to asset acquisition the cj for ****** trade in a vacuum provides a better team outcome than trading for olidapo before or after cj. without mentioning injuries, of course.
 
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lawai'a said:
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please note, the entire league average for 3pt.% last season was 35.8%. not league avg for shooting guards but entire league. his 3pt% career is south of that and only exceeded it during his season in OKC 36.1%. cj is a career 39.7% cj is only slightly higher in 2p% so call that a wash. on the same number of att in portlands offense this would appear to provide a 3pt/per game bump in a direct comparison between the two. does olidapo provide a 3pt differential on the defesive side of the ball? does the additional steal per game/deflection per game that the nba tracks result in an equal or better outcome? not so sure. i also question the odds of olidapo's other inefficiencies providing the offense on dames off nights or nights off where cj often takes up the slack or lead.
i just can't picture the upgrade in an even player swap. if olidapo comes on the heals of a cj for an upgrade at the wing or pf ok, maybe. not sure though if $ is worth it. GTjr. would appear to provide the same defensive upgrade at significant savings, plus a far superior 3pt. shooter.
i think pertaining to asset acquisition the cj for ****** trade in a vacuum provides a better team outcome than trading for olidapo before or after cj. without mentioning injuries, of course.
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Oh I think he would make a far bigger difference than three points per game on defense. The amount of times CJ gets blown by is crazy. CJ is a very bad defender and Oladipo is very good. You don't measure it in steals, in fact it's very hard to quantify at all because teammates play so much into defensive statistics like dpm so that won't paint the picture either. The fact is we get abused on the perimeter and everyone knows that. Turning a big liability in CJ into a big strength in Oladipo is worth so much more than three points per game that you say we would lose. The fact is it would just be a net positive because regardless of what statistics say CJ is better than three points per game on offense than Oladipo but when you logically weigh it out by observing how the game works, Oladipo if healthy and that is a big if is a net positive on this team over CJ. We don't struggle to score points and if we got Oladipo we still wouldn't but we do struggle to defend the perimeter and getting Oladipo would go a long way towards fixing that problem. One stat that you can look at is three point field goal percentage against our team... this season we were the second worst team in the league in three pointers given up and three point fg % against. That means that us and the Warriors gave up the most good threes this season because the other teams that are down their with us in both categories are different and way above us in the other category. A guy like Oladipo as opposed to a guy like CJ on perimeter defense could make us a good team at defending the three and help interior defense by not getting blown by so much. If you define good as top third in the league that could be an 8 point swing but it would also mean more missed threes that turns into transition offense that makes us score even more efficiently. The fact is the difference between having CJ out there and a really good defender out there would be monumental for us.

All of that said if Neil is willing to give up CJ I think we can do better than Oladipo... like I've said many many times before the trade to make if we are willing to part with CJ is CJ and Ariza for Harris and Richardson and I believe we could even squeeze draft picks out of the Sixers in that trade but those two players would make us much better.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
I would trade a healthy CJ for a healthy Oladipo in a heartbeat, but... a healthy Oladipo may be a fictional construct.
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This is a post that makes me wish we could like something multiple times because this is the key. I don't think there is even an argument that for our team substituting Oladipo for CJ on the court would make us so much better. The problem is that CJ is always on the court and lately Oladipo rarely is. So if you were GM you would have to figure out if you think Oladipo is always going to be injured or if it was just a couple of freak injuries. I don't know which one I would think and that's why I would pursue other trades involving CJ and upgrading our defense without losing too much offense.
 
I don't know if I'd want this and I don't know if Indy would go for it, but I think both sides might think about it:
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...although if Indy DID think about it, it might suggest they don't think Oladipo would either stay or return to pre-injury form.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
I don't know if I'd want this and I don't know if Indy would go for it, but I think both sides might think about it:
View attachment 34240

...although if Indy DID think about it, it might suggest they don't think Oladipo would either stay or return to pre-injury form.
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We don't need another 6'4" guard, one thats injury prone.
 
Hoopguru said:
We don't need another 6'4" guard, one thats injury prone.
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This is crazy town. If we were going to trade for one of these guys we would have to be trading CJ too otherwise it is pure insanity.
 
to the lakers for kuzema, danny green and their first pick draft night rumor
 
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