Exclusive War with Iran starting this week? (3 Viewers)

[Sheldon Shape]

scary and delusional.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

This is why I say it doesn't matter much between the two parties. It's not a democracy and it's not a choice.

 

[PCmor7]

First, I would like to say I really appreciate your comments and way of thinking. I find it hard to reply and energy consuming to follow up on all comments here but you are very able in replying with thougtfull and illuminating ways. Not easy at all (I struggle really hard with it I learn).

With regards to your comment:
You correctly note the poll's methodology is flawed — 370K respondents who self-select into Cenk Uygur's audience are not a representative sample of global opinion. But that was my point. (the twit was viewed 3M times so it probably had 'expanded' it's audience.

The same logic applies here. Forum comments on this thread are also not a reliable methodology for grasping global reality. Both are self-selected, politically skewed, emotionally invested communities. One leans on a Twitter poll, the other leans on forum consensus — neither is a neutral baseline. It's just a different bubble.

As for Trump motives for war (economy wise) — if you'd read the opinion piece I posted here — which was quickly dismissed (not by you as far as I know) — you'd have a clearer picture of my view of why Trump's involvement is anything but charity for Netanyahu/Israel and more aligned with the interests of the American people (btw, he is already filthy rich, so other than being his regular narcissistic juvey - I do believe he acts on what he believes to be American interests) - Short recap of the article: Trump's interest in Iran is about control — specifically, breaking the Russia–China–Iran alliance that has been quietly eroding American economic dominance. The Strait of Hormuz alone carries 20% of the world's daily oil supply. Whoever controls that strait controls what China pays for energy, what Russia earns from selling it, and the leverage the entire Eastern axis holds. Iran was the keystone of that structure. Remove it, and China's cheap oil pipeline fractures, Russia loses one of its last reliable buyers, and American economic leverage is restored.

Venezuela, Greenland, and Iran aren't three separate stories — they're one move: systematically dismantling the economic infrastructure of the competing bloc. Trump isn't doing this for Bibi or Israel, He is not being dragged anywhere. He's doing it because energy routes are power.

If anything, Israel is the regional piece in a much larger American chess game — not the other way around IMHO.

It's a nice story, but it shows you actually aren't that familiar with Trump's policies.

You've put more thought into Trump's foreign policy than he has.

Trump has given, at last count, 10 different reasons for attacking Iran.

The United States already had freedom to put bases and troops in Greenland through an agreement with Denmark. Talking tough and threatening to send troops there was unnecessary. Therefore, it doesn't appear this had anything to do with stopping Russia and China. It was ego-driven.

As a counter to your supposition, Venezuela and Iran both are test runs by Trump to see how far he can push things. He's also threatened Cuba and is trying to strangle it with sanctions.

But, here's the thing to that. If what you say is true, he could have accomplished any of those things by going to our Congress, as is the law. Trump's party controls both houses of Congress and the Supreme Court. There was no reason for him to perform these actions unilaterally if they were justified.

Now, Occam's razor exposes more likely reasons Trump is doing this. Currently, Trump and many of his friends are being implicated or questioned about their involvement with the now-dead sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. Trump's ties with Epstein are deeply-rooted. Alexander Acosta gave Epstein a sweetheart plea deal in the early 2000s. Acosta eventually was made Secretary of Labor by Trump during his first presidency. Trump's current Secretary of Commerce, Howard Lutnick, lied about his ties to Epstein. Trump's Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Kash Patel, said under oath that there was no reason to believe anyone other than Epstein and his associate Ghislaine Maxwell committed crimes in his case, but members of Congress forced a vote to release the complete files of the case and many, many people have been implicated now and are being investigated worldwide. Trump's Attorney General, Pam Bondi, said her office had the files and names of people to be investigated early in Trump's second presidency (releasing the files was one of the issues on which he ran), but, once Congress voted and almost unanimously made releasing those files law, Bondi's office has drug its feet releasing them. Four months later, they still haven't all been released.

Trump is named on tips in the files as having sexually assaulted a minor. After the U.S. joined the bombing of Iran, 50K of the documents that had been released suddenly disappeared from the release's website.

Trump is a convicted felon who has been credibly accused of sexual assault before all this came out.

Additionally, Trump's administration is under fire for a number on a number of other fronts. His efforts to remove immigrants have led to multiple deaths, even of U.S. citizens, and the administration has lost numerous civil rights cases. Patel and Trump's Director of Homeland Security, Kristi Noem, have been discovered to be using taxpayer funds for personal use. Trump pardoned 1,600 people who were in prison for violently entering the Capitol Building to stop the transfer of power after he lost the 2020 election following a rally he held nearby.

The economy has struggled here as everyday prices have risen. Trump's approval rating is in the mid-30s right now.

Trump and his family have a number of private business deals with countries and parties in the Middle East, including Saudi, UAE and Qatar.

Oh, and our intelligence now has revealed Iran did not present an imminent threat to the U.S.

In other words, there are A LOT of reasons other than expedience or altruism that better explain Trump taking this step in Iran.

 

[PCmor7]

scary and delusional.

Once Iran is dealt with ... if Iran is dealt with ... Israel and Saudi will return to being competitors to be the supreme power in the Middle East. The only thing that has them aligned is they both hate and fear Iran and Iran hates and fears both of them.

Once the Iran obstacle is removed, I believe you'll see them butting heads, perhaps through proxies, but still, they aren't going to be friends.

I think Turkey wants to have a say in this matter, too.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[crandc]

Don't forget Iran had agreed to all US terms for a deal and was drafting a letter of agreement when they were attacked.

Trump saying he has no idea what goals are or how long war will last also won't rule out ground forces. In other words full scale military invasion of Iran. Can anyone seriously think that makes Israel, the Middle East generally or the US safety?

 

[PCmor7]

Sounds like Qatar is shutting down natural gas liquefaction and UAE has closed its airspace and is trying to stay neutral.

This thing's going sideways.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Don't forget Iran had agreed to all US terms for a deal and was drafting a letter of agreement when they were attacked.

Trump saying he has no idea what goals are or how long war will last also won't rule out ground forces. In other words full scale military invasion of Iran. Can anyone seriously think that makes Israel, the Middle East generally or the US safety?

Safety of Jews is the last consideration for the Israeli regime. Jews who don't recognize this (many do) are making a serious mistake.

 

[riverman]

Today we attacked Equador. Again without congressional approval

 

[PCmor7]

Trump's now on the record that Pahlavi "looks like a nice person" but he'd prefer someone already in Iran that is more moderate "if such a person exists."

 

[Phatguysrule]

This is a 'big boys' tweet. 18.3k replies. 3M views. Unlike other tweets shared here with 130-300 replies and less views..
Its ok - we know 'it was tampered and skewed and false' as Israel controls all media. But I am sharing this not for people who think that. I am sharing it for those who feel alone here and without representation to their views.

It doesn't matter. Both villains.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

It doesn't matter. Both villains.

I'm no fan of Khamnei, but obviously Indian and Israeli bots contributed mightily to this poll.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I'm no fan of Khamnei, but obviously Indian and Israeli bots contributed mightily to this poll.

I wouldn't be at all surprised

 

[ehizzy3]

The em dashes are very telling, bud..

The number one sign of using chapgpt.

I recently started using it at work to help write work instructions and was surprised by the amount of em dashes used. Call me old school but I prefer comma’s and periods

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[ehizzy3]

Today we attacked Equador. Again without congressional approval

not to split hairs but it was a joint operation with the Ecuadorian government. IMO not really an attack on Ecuador but I get the point. Congressional approval is required.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Has anyone else seen a movie called Where is the friend's house?? I highly recommend it. It's a picture of life in rural Iran that I'd never seen. Plus it's kind of magical.

 

[crandc]

The number one sign of using chapgpt.

I recently started using it at work to help write work instructions and was surprised by the amount of em dashes used. Call me old school but I prefer comma’s and periods

When writing FDA submissions there are rules for m and n dashes.
And you wonder why I am so OCD.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[2Fluffy4U]

Feel free at your own discretion to learn about the difference between civilians killed at war as colateral, versus a Genocidal attack. Show me evidence for something like that done by Israel or USA. Ever.

These videos are difficult to watch

These are crimes against humanity – and the world must know.

saturday-october-seven.com

 

[Sheldon Shape]

If there was any doubt that they are calling the shots...

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Another American dead. Another one for Israel.

 

[riverman]

Feel free at your own discretion to learn about the difference between civilians killed at war as colateral, versus a Genocidal attack. Show me evidence for something like that done by Israel or USA. Ever.

These videos are difficult to watch

These are crimes against humanity – and the world must know.

saturday-october-seven.com

The Mai Lai massacre in Viet Nam led by Oliver North for one. Every war is peppered with human rights violation and nationalism is no excuse for sweeping it under the rug although that does happen. We just blew up 106 Iranian children in a school for another. I've yet to see a media apology for that blunder by either the US or Israel. Most Native Americans would tell you a few tales of genocide by the US govt as well. Entire tribes of people were wiped out, their culture and language gone forever all in the name of religion and progress! Perspective...collateral damage is a military term used to protect any OOPS killings while waging war and not accept accountability for it. If someone on the street is shooting at someone and hits me by mistake, they still have murdered me.

 

[2Fluffy4U]

The Mai Lai massacre in Viet Nam led by Oliver North for one. Every war is peppered with human rights violation and nationalism is no excuse for sweeping it under the rug although that does happen. We just blew up 106 Iranian children in a school for another. I've yet to see a media apology for that blunder by either the US or Israel.

A crucial distinction is institutional intent: My Lai was a crime that the U.S. military and government attempted to suppress and later prosecuted (however inadequately). In addition -
Warrant Officer Hugh Thompson, an Army helicopter pilot flying overhead, recognized what was happening and intervened. He landed his helicopter between soldiers and fleeing civilians, ordered his crew to fire on U.S. troops if they continued killing, and evacuated survivors. He reported it up the chain of command. He is widely regarded as a hero, though the military initially ignored and even retaliated against him.

October 7 was a deliberately planned operation that Hamas's leadership publicly celebrated as a success. To this day I have yet to learn of a Gazan Hamas / Civilian that tried to stop what was going on (if you can find one for me I will be happy to learn of it).
I agree Mai Lai victims and Iranian School children deaths are horrific outcome of conflict, but I still reckon they represent sporadic conflations and stem from wrong doing - but not as systemic agenda or institional intent.

 

[julius]

M a g a has no real beliefs. They lost their minds over the Afghanistan evacuation. But with this they are like whatever. They straight up eat up anything they are told.

Hated Clinton because he cheated on his wife, did drugs and skipped out on serving the country.

Didn't mind that Bush was a drunk and had other drug issues.

Made fun of Gore for being a photographer over in Vietnam (or whatever they bitched about), didn't mind that Bush used his connections to get out of serious service.

Didn't like it when people questioned or even remotely mocked someones service, but mocked and questioned Kerry's service.

Didn't mind that Trump cheated on his first, second and third wife, used his connections to get out of serving, mocked someone with a disability, mocks women, is a bully, a liar, a cheat and a scam artist...yet they look the other way.

They no longer have access to the high road.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[PCmor7]

When the fanboy gets hired by the team.

 

[crandc]

The Mai Lai massacre in Viet Nam led by Oliver North for one. Every war is peppered with human rights violation and nationalism is no excuse for sweeping it under the rug although that does happen. We just blew up 106 Iranian children in a school for another. I've yet to see a media apology for that blunder by either the US or Israel. Most Native Americans would tell you a few tales of genocide by the US govt as well. Entire tribes of people were wiped out, their culture and language gone forever all in the name of religion and progress! Perspective...collateral damage is a military term used to protect any OOPS killings while waging war and not accept accountability for it. If someone on the street is shooting at someone and hits me by mistake, they still have murdered me.

Whoa! Oliver North did lots of bad things but it was William Calley, not North, in My Lai.

 

[crandc]

A crucial distinction is institutional intent: My Lai was a crime that the U.S. military and government attempted to suppress and later prosecuted (however inadequately). In addition -
Warrant Officer Hugh Thompson, an Army helicopter pilot flying overhead, recognized what was happening and intervened. He landed his helicopter between soldiers and fleeing civilians, ordered his crew to fire on U.S. troops if they continued killing, and evacuated survivors. He reported it up the chain of command. He is widely regarded as a hero, though the military initially ignored and even retaliated against him.

October 7 was a deliberately planned operation that Hamas's leadership publicly celebrated as a success. To this day I have yet to learn of a Gazan Hamas / Civilian that tried to stop what was going on (if you can find one for me I will be happy to learn of it).
I agree Mai Lai victims and Iranian School children deaths are horrific outcome of conflict, but I still reckon they represent sporadic conflations and stem from wrong doing - but not as systemic agenda or institional intent.

Let's not compare atrocities. Please. Because inevitably it leads to that murder wasn't as bad as this murder.
My Lai, slaughter of Native Americans, Holocaust, October 7, famine in Gaza, Rwanda, Bosnia. I can't grade them.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Ezra Klein is the Sean Hannity of the "left."